On Poverty

[Andrew]

tongue-tied i guess.

Here's more scriptures on the curse of poverty:

Deu 28:

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine *** shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them.
33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:
38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it.
39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.
40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit.
42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.
44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

Let's hope you now know what is a curse and what is a blessing.

 

[chelcb]

The sacrifice that Mary and Joseph brought with them to the temple on the 8 th day of the presentation was two turtledoves; this was a suitable sacrifice for those who were poor.

Andrew, you will never convince me that Jesus was rich and the bible simply does not support the health and wealth gospel that is very new and very popular in our materialistic society today.

Not every case of poverty is a blessing in of it's self but a consequence of ones own actions. If you gamble your rent money, you'll be put out on the streets, but when that happens God allows such things so he will be put first, not money.

What about Mary's canticle? "He has filled his poor...the rich he has sent away empty." And what about Lazareth? He was in the bosom of Abraham while the greedy rich were in torment.

 

[dignitized]

Yesterday at 11:58 PM Andrew said this in Post #18

well then, have you done that? do you walk the talk? do u then despise other Christians who are rich?


Jesus was never poor, except on the cross. I dont consider a man who can multiply bread to feed 5000, turn water into top quality wine, etc poor. Mary and Joseph did not remain poor after Jesus came into the picture. The Magi gave them gold, myrrh and frankincense. Do a study of the frankincense -- at that time, such fragrances were considered even more expensive than the gold.

If you believe so much in poverty being a blessing, then stop being a hypocrite and live like John the Baptist. Why are you still living in that nice home, sleeping on that nice comfy bed, wearing nice clothes etc.

I find Christians who speak against prosperity one of the biggest hypocrites. I debated with a man once on this topic. at the end of the session, when we go to the carpark, he drives off in a BMW. My brother spoke to another who was already earning $8000 but wanted to earn more, wanted to move to a bigger home, wanted to buy cuff-links for his nice shirts etc yet he was so against Christians prospering.

1 - As a VOWED religious I do walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

2 - When did I say ANYTHING about hating the rich?

3 - If been rich is such a blessing, why are there more believers in the 3rd world where people are POOR and in the 1st world where people are RICH paganism, atheism and humanism FLOURISH!

 

4 - And FYI, I made less than $10 grand last year. Of the monies I made, I gave both tithes and love offerings, paid my dues, gave to charitable works, paid my bills and still managed to have enough money to do nice things for others.

5 - poverty is as much a curse as wealth. BOTH can cause men to focus on the TEMPORAL rather than the eternal - THINGS rather than GOD.

 

6 - Christ chose to be born in a STABLE rather than a palace.  He chose to be born into a CARPENTERS family rather than a aristocrats. God did NOT and does NOT value temporal riches except so far as we can used them to comfort those in NEED. Read the parable of the rich man and his barns.

7 - BTW I live in a building owned by the community I belong to sleep in a LUMPY bed which also belongs to the order - when I drive, I drive one of the vehicles owned by the order and then ONLY on business for the order - and as far as clothes - I wear a habit for petes sakes and when I am not wearing the habit my clothes were either purchased in discount stores or purchased for me. lol

 

I suggest that you not judge the walk of another util you know what their walk entails.

 

[dignitized]

I love when people read the bible intent on proving their doctrines and beliefs rather than read the bible to find the doctrines and beliefs of God.

 

[chelcb]

Mother Theresa said that that our poverty, (the westren world) is our wealth.

 

[linda4jesus]

Today at 07:18 AM chelcb said this in Post #22 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=660332#post660332)

The sacrifice that Mary and Joseph brought with them to the temple on the 8 th day of the presentation was two turtledoves; this was a suitable sacrifice for those who were poor.

Andrew, you will never convince me that Jesus was rich and the bible simply does not support the health and wealth gospel that is very new and very popular in our materialistic society today.

Not every case of poverty is a blessing in of it's self but a consequence of ones own actions. If you gamble your rent money, you'll be put out on the streets, but when that happens God allows such things so he will be put first, not money.

What about Mary's canticle? "He has filled his poor...the rich he has sent away empty." And what about Lazareth? He was in the bosom of Abraham while the greedy rich were in torment.

chelcb,

I agree with you.

Jesus was poor in the material sense.....but rich in the abundance of Love.

We all have thought....only if we make more money...then I'll be happy; then we make that amount and nothing really changes. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor as long as your belly is full and you are warm. Money cannot buy happiness, it can only make life a little easier.

 

[dignitized]

True Linda - BUT, I will take it a step farther. Happiness is a result of outward events and circumstances - I'd rather have JOY which comes from within from the Lord Himself. JOY does not depend on what I have or what anyone else has. I can be Joyful in poverty or in wealth. Joy does not depend upon my human situation it depends on my relationship with God and my willingness to trust in Him and HIS provision for my life.

 

[chelcb]

Today at 11:38 AM linda4jesus said this in Post #26

chelcb,

I agree with you.

Jesus was poor in the material sense.....but rich in the abundance of Love.

We all have thought....only if we make more money...then I'll be happy; then we make that amount and nothing really changes. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor as long as your belly is full and you are warm. Money cannot buy happiness, it can only make life a little easier.

 

Oh, my...we agree?!?

 

[linda4jesus]

Today at 12:58 PM chelcb said this in Post #28 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=660817#post660817)

 

Oh, my...we agree?!?

I know, scary huh....lol

 

[SUNSTONE]

Yesterday at 11:18 PM chelcb said this in Post #16

Poverty is never a blessing as far as the Bible is concerned

Well how come the Holy Family (Jesus, Mary, and Joesph) was poor? And how come Jesus was homeless? He said..."the birds have their nest and the foxes have their holes but the son of man has no place to lay his head?"

Jesus was poor, was he cursed??

Jesus made Himself poor, He made Himself a curse for our sakes. He took the punishment that we deserve.

Jesus set the example of laying down His life, so that we should do the same to each other. The word says to give to those who ask, how are you going to give something if you don't have it to give?

 

[SUNSTONE]

God wants you to have enough money that you may bless other people.

If having money and being rich were bad things, then why would you encourage people to goto college?

Money isn't the problem, its what you do with money that is the problem.

 

[dignitized]

sunstone - I agree that having money is not the problem. The porblem comes when people feel that having money is a sign of being blessed and not having money is a sign of being cursed BOTH by the hand of GOD.

 

[chelcb]

Right...Br. Max.

This notion that we are all supposed to be rich and that Jesus was to, is not supported AT ALL by scripture.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Today at 04:33 PM Br. Max said this in Post #32

sunstone - I agree that having money is not the problem. The porblem comes when people feel that having money is a sign of being blessed and not having money is a sign of being cursed BOTH by the hand of GOD.

Paul says if you don't work, expect not to eat. Alot of proverbs talks about money. Saying bad things about laziness, and selfishness, and greed. The bible says that a wise man will leave an inheritance for his children or grandchildren(?). Where a fool spends all that he has.

Also God talks about tithing, and what He will do if you faithfully tithe. God wants you to have more than enough money, to help yourself, and more important than that, to help other people. He even wants you to have money to do activitys, and to have nice things. But your goal is on building the Kingdom of God. Paying tithes, helping people, paying all your bills, having savings.

 

[chelcb]

Sunstone:

The scriptures say that you reep in this world what you sow. You create, what you create. If you are lazy and you do not work, you will not eat.

This has nothing to do with anyone having a right to riches just because they are Christian.

 

[dignitized]

I have no problem with people being rich if God wills it - but lets not forget that the reward of the wicked is during this life time while the rewards of the righteous come in eternity. I'd MUCH rather be poor in this life than poor in the life to come.

 

[sklippstein]

amen

 

[Andrew]

The sacrifice that Mary and Joseph brought with them to the temple on the 8 th day of the presentation was two turtledoves; this was a suitable sacrifice for those who were poor.
Andrew, you will never convince me that Jesus was rich and the bible simply does not support the health and wealth gospel that is very new and very popular in our materialistic society today.

health and wealth is part of the Gospel. There's no escaping this Biblical truth. I can prove it with scriptures but since you prefer to be poor, according to your faith be it unto you.

Not every case of poverty is a blessing in of it's self but a consequence of ones own actions. If you gamble your rent money, you'll be put out on the streets, but when that happens God allows such things so he will be put first, not money.

poverty is a curse pure and simple. Read Deu 28 to understnd the diff betw a curse and a blessing. Or use a dictionary.

What about Mary's canticle? "He has filled his poor...the rich he has sent away empty." And what about Lazareth? He was in the bosom of Abraham while the greedy rich were in torment.

pls rightly divide the Word and dont talk as if Jesus did not die and rise again. Study his work on the cross -- the aspect of divine exchanges -- and you will begin to see.

 

[Andrew]

Also God talks about tithing, and what He will do if you faithfully tithe. God wants you to have more than enough money, to help yourself, and more important than that, to help other people. He even wants you to have money to do activitys, and to have nice things. But your goal is on building the Kingdom of God. Paying tithes, helping people, paying all your bills, having savings.

EXACTLY!!! And how is one supp to do all that if he has to beg for money, borrow from others, live off welfare etc. Pretty common sense.

God doesnt prosper us just so we can go for expensive holidays and eat in hotels, he prospers us firstly becos he is a God who loves to bless and give good gifts, secondly to finance the kingdom of God. And all this is possible becos Christ became poor on the cross so that we might be made rich. Its a done thing. Whether you experience it or not depends on whether you believe and act on it.

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


Health/Wealth/Protection/Long Life Gospel:

Psalm 103
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities [Jesus saves]; who healeth all thy diseases [Jesus heals];
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction;[Jesus protects] who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; [Jesus prospers] so that thy youth is renewed like the eagleÕs.[Jesus gives long life]

3Jo 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. -- prosperity and health plain and simple

check out the Greek for saved/salvation too -- it includes, protection, deliverance, healing, well-being, wholeness etc.

 

[chelcb]

health and wealth is part of the Gospel. There's no escaping this Biblical truth. I can prove it with scriptures but since you prefer to be poor, according to your faith be it unto you.

Your sure assuming a lot here about me aren't you? I can prove they were poor so who's right?

poverty is a curse pure and simple. Read Deu 28 to understnd the diff betw a curse and a blessing. Or use a dictionary.

He was talking about sin, not money. Do you think being poor is a sin?

pls rightly divide the Word and dont talk as if Jesus did not die and rise again. Study his work on the cross -- the aspect of divine exchanges -- and you will begin to see.

See what? What are you talking about? When did I say that Jesus did not die and rise, what does that have to do with what I posted? 

Andrew, I respectfully disagree with the health and wealth gospel that is being preach today.