On God killing the "little ones" of Dathan and Abiram

[pat34lee]

No, you can't.

But it doesn't matter. Follow your religion. It makes you happy. Good luck with it.

Knowing the fate of people like you, because you choose it? Hardly.
Why do you think Jesus wept over Jerusalem? They chose hatred
and sin and death over the life he offered.

 

[Hoghead1]

I can show you the same thing from Genesis to Revelation.
The reason you won't see it is because it requires something
of you. You have to take responsibility for your actions and
your thoughts. You have to choose not to sin. EVER. And you
don't want to choose that.

That's an invalid argument. It rests on the premise that your opponent is wrong simply because he is sinning. Sorry, irrational argument.

 

[Vicomte13]

Knowing the fate of people like you, because you choose it? Hardly.
Why do you think Jesus wept over Jerusalem? They chose hatred
and sin and death over the life he offered.

ISTJ and INFP attempt communication. The result is irritating to ISTJ, incomprehensible to INFP, and unrewarding for both. INFP out.

 

[Vicomte13]

If it had been in the Torah, God could not have told him to break it. ...
You are the one who must throw out half God's word andall of his laws in order to be free to sin.

The food laws the Holy Spirit told Peter to break are Toranic, not simply rabbinical.
God didn't change the law: eat any animal was the law for all of humanity from Noah to now.
Don't eat certain animals was a specific law for those under the covenant - seeking that promised farm in Israel in exchange for their obedience.

Of course, God knew that soon he would destroy the Temple and the farm would not be on offer anymore in any case, and Peter was his chosen shepherd to begin the process of baptizing the Gentiles into the ekklesia.

The second part of what you write is nonsense, and quite obnoxious. I have nowhere spoken of seeking to be "free to sin". You've assumed facts not in evidence. Better look at the plank in your own eye there.

Talking with you about these things is as pleasant as a root canal. To continue is fruitless. Goodbye.

 

[Vicomte13]

Thoughts?

To go any deeper requires looking at the Hebrew words that have been poorly translated as "good" and "evil" ("functional" or "that works" and "dysfunctional" or "doesn't work" is much more accurate).

And honestly, I find the endless bickering of "Christians" to be depressing. What substitutes for conversation on these "Christian" pages is some of the most hostile communications that I've experienced. I've had my fill of it (not from you). I'm with Jesus, but I've had enough of these nasty "Christians" and need to get out of here.

Nice talking with you. Have a good life.

 

[pat34lee]

The food laws the Holy Spirit told Peter to break are Toranic, not simply rabbinical.
God didn't change the law: eat any animal was the law for all of humanity from Noah to now.
Don't eat certain animals was a specific law for those under the covenant - seeking that promised farm in Israel in exchange for their obedience.

Now you are changing not only law but people. Peter was
a Jew, and under all of the covenants of Israel. Again, God
being God, cannot lie and cannot go against his own laws
and especially his covenants.

There is and always has been only one group of believers.
There have been individuals from other places, but the only
nation called God's people have been Israel. There is no
seperate church, and no seperate covenant.

Galatians 3:29
Romans 8:17
Romans 9:8

 

[Vicomte13]

Now you are changing not only law but people. Peter was
a Jew, and under all of the covenants of Israel. Again, God
being God, cannot lie and cannot go against his own laws
and especially his covenants.

There is and always has been only one group of believers.
There have been individuals from other places, but the only
nation called God's people have been Israel. There is no
seperate church, and no seperate covenant.

Galatians 3:29
Romans 8:17
Romans 9:8

No, I am not doing any of the things that you are saying I am doing. You are simply telling a story to yourself, and adding new chapters to it. I tried to change the direction of this the first time you did it, but you're not interested in a conversation, you're interested in speaking at me with authority you do not have. This is very dull.

And as a result, I have lost all interest in discussing anything with you.

Goodbye.

 

[Achilles6129]

I've been having some more thoughts on this, and I think that God may kill the offspring of wicked people not in order to punish their offspring but in order to punish them. A good example would be King David, whose child died because of his sin with Bathsheba (2 Sam. 12). So perhaps God thought that Dathan/Abiram were so evil that he not only killed them, but he killed their children in punishment directed toward them (Dathan/Abiram) as well. Thoughts?

 

[brinny]

So here's the passage in question:

"25 Then Moses arose and went to Dathan and Abiram, with the elders of Israel following him, 26 and he spoke to the congregation, saying, “Depart now from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing that belongs to them, or you will be swept away in all their sin.” 27 So they got back from around the dwellings of Korah, Dathan and Abiram; and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the doorway of their tents, along with their wives and their sons and their little ones. 28 Moses said, “By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these deeds; for this is not my doing. 29 If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.” 31 As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. 33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly. 34 All Israel who were around them fled at their outcry, for they said, “The earth may swallow us up!”" Num. 16:25-34 (NASB)

Now here's the question: why destroy the "little ones" (which I take to mean the small children) of Dathan/Abiram? It would have been easy for their lives to have been spared by God. So why did God destroy them along with Dathan and Abiram? I find this to be a very interesting theological question and I'd appreciate any input. I'm thinking that God may destroy the children of the wicked not as punishment against the children but as punishment against the wicked. Thoughts?

Did God sin?

 

[Achilles6129]

Did God sin?

Of course not. But the question is, why kill Dathan/Abiram's small children when it would have been so easy to spare them?

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Did God sin?

Of course not. But the question is, why kill Dathan/Abiram's small children when it would have been so easy to spare them?

hmmmm......is it perhaps because God is God, and His thinking is not as ours is? Does He perhaps know more than we do?

 

[Achilles6129]

brinny said: ↑
Did God sin?


hmmmm......is it perhaps because God is God, and His thinking is not as ours is? Does He perhaps know more than we do?

I see. So what would his thinking be, then? Why kill small children when they could be so easily spared?

 

[brinny]

I see. So what would his thinking be, then? Why kill small children when they could be so easily spared?

Again, did He sin?

 

[Achilles6129]

Again, did He sin?

Already answered. I don't really see where this is going or how it helps answer the question of why God would kill the children of Dathan and Abiram. Chalking it up to the inscrutable ways of the divine simply isn't going to satisfy me.

 

[brinny]

Already answered. I don't really see where this is going or how it helps answer the question of why God would kill the children of Dathan and Abiram. Chalking it up to the inscrutable ways of the divine simply isn't going to satisfy me.

Re: the deaths of these children, did God err? Was it a judgment?

Have there been similar judgments throughout Old Testament history?

For instance, was the closing of the door to Noah's ark by God, a judgment?

Babies died.

Did they not?

 

[Achilles6129]

Re: the deaths of these children, did God err? Was it a judgment?

Have there been similar judgments throughout Old Testament history?

For instance, was the closing of the door to Noah's ark by God, a judgment?

Babies died.

Did they not?

I think the difference here is that God could have easily spared their children by having them step 10 feet to the left. In the case of the Flood, God would have had to chosen an entirely different way of destroying the world in order to spare their children. But, you are correct I think in asking the question of why small children are killed by God at all.

 

[brinny]

I think the difference here is that God could have easily spared their children by having them step 10 feet to the left. In the case of the Flood, God would have had to chosen an entirely different way of destroying the world in order to spare their children. But, you are correct I think in asking the question of why small children are killed by God at all.

Yes, it happens.

Is God ever wrong or mistaken?

 

[Achilles6129]

Yes, it happens.

Is God ever wrong or mistaken?

You seem to be missing the point of this thread. When you are ready to discuss the reasons why, I'll be listening.

 

[brinny]

On God killing the "little ones" of Dathan and Abiram

You seem to be missing the point of this thread. When you are ready to discuss the reasons why, I'll be listening.

i was referring to the title of the thread.

 

[SkyWriting]

So here's the passage in question:

"25 Then Moses arose and went to Dathan and Abiram, with the elders of Israel following him, 26 and he spoke to the congregation, saying, “Depart now from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing that belongs to them, or you will be swept away in all their sin.” 27 So they got back from around the dwellings of Korah, Dathan and Abiram; and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the doorway of their tents, along with their wives and their sons and their little ones. 28 Moses said, “By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these deeds; for this is not my doing. 29 If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.” 31 As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. 33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly. 34 All Israel who were around them fled at their outcry, for they said, “The earth may swallow us up!”" Num. 16:25-34 (NASB)

Now here's the question: why destroy the "little ones" (which I take to mean the small children) of Dathan/Abiram? It would have been easy for their lives to have been spared by God. So why did God destroy them along with Dathan and Abiram? I find this to be a very interesting theological question and I'd appreciate any input. I'm thinking that God may destroy the children of the wicked not as punishment against the children but as punishment against the wicked. Thoughts?

Neither. The idea of "punishment" is created by man.
God knows the entire lives of every person before time
began till it ends and He doesn't have events happen
without just reason.

We may, or may not, think we know what these
reasons are.