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Sounds like you think we can save ourselves, with a little help from God.
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Who are we to say to the Lord why have you made me thus......we are born with weak flesh, of the earth earthy but nobody else is at fault, nobody else can take responsibility for our weak flesh but we ourselves. Through repentance we must go to overcome our weak flesh. God does His part, He gave us His word, His Son, He draws us by His Spirit, He chastises who He loves as sons, He speaks, He instructs, He does all He can.......but in the end we have to do our part....Godly sorrow and repent. I think when we try to splice and dice things too finely we end up missing the point....not that I haven't done it myself.
Sounds like you think we can save ourselves, with a little help from God.
Nice text. Doesn't address my post.
All of the guests were gathered. None of them came willingly. If they had, they wouldn't have needed to be gathered.
Rather than play 20 questions why don't you qualify your reasoning as to why?
If I can reason rather than guess your reasoning ,maybe we can agree.
Snippets are ways to extend a debate or discussion,by using a endless array of trite answers or questions that create a illusion of higher education.
Therefore explain why my statement was not Bibical and if possible provide Schripture as a foundation as I have.
Galatians: 6. 14. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
What Mr. Graham said is not biblically sound. His Universalism is not orthodox Christianity. In fact, promoting Universalism in this thread is against forum rules.
Are you seriously telling me I am promoting Universalist theology?
Jesus preached to the dead all the way back to the time of Noah, God will find a way for the Gospel to be given to everyone.
The whosoever in John 3 Vs 16 is as it states
Agree with what you are saying here.........all SINNED and fell short of the glory of God. Like the child Emmanuel....when he was old enough to choose the right and reject the wrong......Adam and Eve had a brief time of innocency after they were made, but the time came to choose, and unfortunately they chose wrong. Every child likewise when they are old enough to begin choosing, chooses wrong, they choose to sin.....have a hunch that is around the age of two or so for most, based on what the Lord showed me about the time I first sinned, not yet three years of age.......also called the terrible twos, a stage of contrariness for most kids.
All infants everywhere are born the same... pure, without sin.It seems that infants in your neck of the woods are different than the ones here.
What is the requirement to be justified in God's eyes? Faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Neither of the two verses states that youth or incapacity excuses one from unbelief.
Nor is your distinction logical. You would excuse infants and the mentally incompetent because they have no ability to believe in the gospel, but you would not excuse mentally competent adults who have never heard the gospel and therefore also do not have an ability to believe in the gospel:
13 For, " every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?
15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!"
16 But they have not all heeded the gospel; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"
17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.
Your distinction is also illogical because it would make a previously innocent infant a sinner deserving hell from the second that he reaches the age of reason until the moment that he hears and accepts the gospel. If nobody preaches the gospel to him within two days of him reaching the age of reason and he gets into a car accident he dies and goes to hell under your theology, whereby two days earlier he would have gone to heaven as an innocent babe. That is a ridiculous result, with all due respect.
Let's look see what scripture says...
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Why would God have to send His Word in the flesh of Jesus Christ to reconcile man?
It all has to do with "Thou shalt not eat..." and the Tree of Life is hidden until HE causes us to become blind that we might SEE...There is only One Way back to that Tree of Life and we are all born of the dust/earth realm. The Last Adam ...a New Creation through/In Christ (The Door) is required to gain entrance to The Kingdom of God...by all. Until that happens, we are eating from the forbidden tree...and disobeying the first commandment by God.
The verse does not regard some as sheep and some as goats. It says "any man" with all men being alike here. One first enters then is saved. Calvinism is wrong if it tries to have men saved BEFORE they even believe (enter).You still didn't answer the question.
Yes, I know it says anyone. But some men are regarded as sheep, and some as goats. So, can goats enter, for instance?
The bible does not say men are born estranged from God.Well, that is your opinion, and I already knew that. The Bible, however, doesn't support that view. It does say that men are naturally estranged from God, born in sin, etc. but there is nowhere that it says the opposite--that it's possible that there are some people who don't need a savior.
I didn't say that they were saved prior coming to Christ. I said that they were His sheep, which is why they came to His call.
"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
He came to redeem a particular group of people, and He will not lose even one of them.
Maybe it is. No one is born with perfect DNA - there's not even a way such a thing could be defined.
Resha said:Hmm. Then I must be misreading Psalm 51.
Galatians 3:22The bible does not say men are born estranged from God.
Romans 3:12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;..."
Gone out of the way NOT born out of the way.
BECOME unprofitable NOT born unprofitable.
Calvinism does not understand the difference in how men are born and what men become. Judas was not BORN a thief and traitor, this is what he later BECAME. One is not born a sinner but is what one later becomes upon sinning Romans 7:8-9. Sin sprang up later in Paul's life not when he was born for he was without law when he was born therefore sin was dead to him as an infant.
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