Omniscient Planner

[WordSword]

It’s not like when Adam and Eve sinned God had to go to a plan B. Was it not part of His plan? Isn’t He omniscient and knew what they would do? How would they have ever known what evil is apart from the sin? It’s my belief that He wanted us to be like Him in knowing what good and evil is. Wasn’t it when they sinned that they could now know what good and evil was (Gen 3:22)? Could it be that since God knew what they would do, there must be a good reason why He allowed it!

It’s my conjecture that, after knowing what evil is, they could know what God’s holiness is; and I don’t think they would ever have known otherwise. They knew what right and wrong were via His command (Gen 2:16, 3:11, 17), but were oblivious to the meaning and understanding of good and evil. Surely knowing good and evil is a far greater knowledge than just knowing right and wrong. I believe He allows us to endure our evil nature in order that we would understand the need for the indwelling of His blessed Son! I also believe God’s intention is to be in us, not just with us; and you can’t get any closer that that!
NC

 

[dwb001]

So your proposal is that God encourages sin in His way to get us to be more like Him?
Because we are able to sin we are now more like God?

Doesn't sound right to my ears,

 

[WordSword]

So your proposal is that God encourages sin in His way to get us to be more like Him?
Because we are able to sin we are now more like God?

Doesn't sound right to my ears,

Even before He created God knew they would sin; and He could have done it another way if that's not what He wanted to allow. They could not be like Him in the way He wanted without knowing good and evil. I'm presenting all this, not that this is why God did it this way, but with the sense that it's very possible it's the way He chose to teach us.

Definitely can't be in His "likeness" and "image" without this knowledge. He knew how it was all going to occur and worked it out this way. I agree that it sounds a bit off, but it's just my opinion.

Thanks for the reply though.

 

[dwb001]

Even before He created God knew they would sin; and He could have done it another way if that's not what He wanted to allow. They could not be like Him in the way He wanted without knowing good and evil. I'm presenting all this, not that this is why God did it this way, but with the sense that it's very possible it's the way He chose to teach us.

Definitely can't be in His "likeness" and "image" without this knowledge. He knew how it was all going to occur and worked it out this way. I agree that it sounds a bit off, but it's just my opinion.

Thanks for the reply though.

So your idea is the for God to truly make man in His own image He needed man to sin.

But man WAS made in God's image before sin occurred.

Nope... your line of reasoning still smells bad.

 

[WordSword]

So your idea is the for God to truly make man in His own image He needed man to sin.

But man WAS made in God's image before sin occurred.

Nope... your line of reasoning still smells bad.

God's "image" and "likeness" surely doesn't involve sin. It involves man looking like God (image) and having the ability like God to choose (likeness - Gen 1:26)! He just knew man would go that way, and what He was going to do about it. They had the sin nature before they sinned. Them sinning proved that. Before Eve sinned she saw it was "a tree to be desired to make one wise" (sin of pride, from which all sins derive and from which Satan fell) - Gen 3:6).

Again, just my opinions. God bless!

 

[dwb001]

God's "image" and "likeness" surely doesn't involve sin. It involves man looking like God (image) and having the ability like God to choose (likeness - Gen 1:26)! He just knew man would go that way, and what He was going to do about it. They had the sin nature before they sinned. Them sinning proved that. Before Eve sinned she saw it was "a tree to be desired to make one wise" (sin of pride, from which all sins derive and from which Satan fell) - Gen 3:6).

Again, just my opinions. God bless!

And we all know what they say about opinions.

 

[AlexB23]

It’s not like when Adam and Eve sinned God had to go to a plan B. Was it not part of His plan? Isn’t He omniscient and knew what they would do? How would they have ever known what evil is apart from the sin? It’s my belief that He wanted us to be like Him in knowing what good and evil is. Wasn’t it when they sinned that they could now know what good and evil was (Gen 3:22)? Could it be that since God knew what they would do, there must be a good reason why He allowed it!

It’s my conjecture that, after knowing what evil is, they could know what God’s holiness is; and I don’t think they would ever have known otherwise. They knew what right and wrong were via His command (Gen 2:16, 3:11, 17), but were oblivious to the meaning and understanding of good and evil. Surely knowing good and evil is a far greater knowledge than just knowing right and wrong. I believe He allows us to endure our evil nature in order that we would understand the need for the indwelling of His blessed Son! I also believe God’s intention is to be in us, not just with us; and you can’t get any closer that that!
NC

It is best that we don't question God's methods. He operates beyond time and space, and above human logic. We could ask Him this question when we greet God in Heaven above. That will be one of my first questions, along with why he would make a universe that is billions of years old, just for us humans. That is so sweet and awesome of God to give us a massive, billions of light-years cathedral of outer space for us to ponder at, and enjoy His creation in awe.

 

[Bobber]

It’s not like when Adam and Eve sinned God had to go to a plan B. Was it not part of His plan? Isn’t He omniscient and knew what they would do? How would they have ever known what evil is apart from the sin?

Who says they needed to know what evil was by experience. Knowing what evil was by God of whom you know was loving should have been sufficient.

Wasn’t it when they sinned that they could now know what good and evil was (Gen 3:22)?

They could know what is was by experience. God didn't want them to learn the hard way though. They could have learned the easy way and just took him at his word.

Could it be that since God knew what they would do, there must be a good reason why He allowed it!

He allowed it for regardless of how much pain and grief it caused him he wanted man to have freewill..

It’s my conjecture that, after knowing what evil is, they could know what God’s holiness is; and I don’t think they would ever have known otherwise.

Sure they would have. They would have stayed in peace, love and harmony which is what holiness produces.

 

[WordSword]

It is best that we don't question God's methods. He operates beyond time and space, and above human logic. We could ask Him this question when we greet God in Heaven above. That will be one of my first questions, along with why he would make a universe that is billions of years old, just for us humans. That is so sweet and awesome of God to give us a massive, billions of light-years cathedral of outer space for us to ponder at, and enjoy His creation in awe.

Hi, and like what you said! I wouldn't say I was questioning God but just giving an opinion of what I think may be why He does what He does. I believe He wants us to know about Him as much as we can understand.

 

[WordSword]

Who says they needed to know what evil was by experience.

I don't think they could know evil without experiencing it, and God wanted them to know so they would know His holiness.

They could know what is was by experience. God didn't want them to learn the hard way though. They could have learned the easy way and just took him at his word.

He didn't tell them what it was, He wanted them to experience it so they would have the best idea of what evil was.

 

[Bobber]

I don't think they could know evil without experiencing it, and God wanted them to know so they would know His holiness.

Again I'm not sure how you can reason that way. If you're in a state of blessing you're in a state of blessing. With holiness you'd experience cleanness, pureness and all other positive things. That would be experiencing holiness and knowing it.

He didn't tell them what it was, He wanted them to experience it so they would have the best idea of what evil was.

But why? That still doesn't make sense. You tell your kids don't touch the hot burner on the stove. There's nothing in you which would believe they really do need to touch it to feel the pain so that they know it. The only thing you have on your mind is that you hope they'll take you at your word.

 

[WordSword]

Again I'm not sure how you can reason that way. If you're in a state of blessing you're in a state of blessing. With holiness you'd experience cleanness, pureness and all other positive things. That would be experiencing holiness and knowing it.

I just don't think they could know God's holiness without knowing what evil is. They didn't know evil until the sin (Gen 3:7). We must realize that God knew what they would do even before creating, so He allowed it to go the way it did. There's different ways of doing what He did but He chose the way it went.

Appreciate the replies!

 

[Bobber]

I just don't think they could know God's holiness without knowing what evil is. They didn't know evil until the sin (Gen 3:7).

What you're meaning is they didn't KNOW sin by physical experience and KNOW the experience of being in a degenerated state. They did know about sin by spiritual revelation though and that's as far as God really wanted it to go. eg If you love your parents you can know about the pain of putting your hand on a hot stove. You believe them because you trust them so you don't do it. You know without experience it was not a good thing.

There's different ways of doing what He did but He chose the way it went.

But that's just it. God didn't choose the way it went. Man did. That's what the choice was all about. Man's way OR God's way.

Maybe we can make this simple. Imagine Adam after he partook of the fruit turned to God later and said, "Well Lord....I mean really......you truly did want this to happen to us anyway so let's just be honest And of course Lord that shold mean that I don't nor should I feel any remorse about this at all,"

Surely we can't envision God saying, "Oh you're so wise and insightful. Right on! Everything went according to plan even though I gave you the false impression NOT to eat of the fruit so WELL DONE good and faithful servant!"

 

[WordSword]

But that's just it. God didn't choose the way it went. Man did. That's what the choice was all about. Man's way OR God's way.

All I can say is that God knew the way it was going to go and chose to do everything the way He is doing it.

 

[Bobber]

All I can say is that God knew the way it was going to go and chose to do everything the way He is doing it.

And what's the way that God is doing it OR has done it? He's allowed mankind to have free will to make his decisions. Such doesn't mean God wanted end result B or C. He may have longed to see end result A. This really shouldn't be too hard to understand. We as natural parents truly might want A to take place with our kids. We allow however B or C to trump A however for we want more than anything.....our offspring to make their own choices.

 

[AlexB23]

Hi, and like what you said! I wouldn't say I was questioning God but just giving an opinion of what I think may be why He does what He does. I believe He wants us to know about Him as much as we can understand.

Thank you. It is best to not question God for everything though, as He has reasons, but we can always ponder.

 

[WordSword]

Thank you. It is best to not question God for everything though, as He has reasons, but we can always ponder.

We should never question God about anything. We can want to understand something, but not doubt God.

 

[AlexB23]

We should never question God about anything. We can want to understand something, but not doubt God.

Agreed. So, it is best to not even try and ask to understand things that relate to temporal causality (timelines) and God.

 

[WordSword]

Agreed. So, it is best to not even try and ask to understand things that relate to temporal causality (timelines) and God.

I think we can ask to understand whatever we desire to know about God, esp. if it's something He wants us to know.

 

[WordSword]

Can this ever be thought of as if it was true to a Christian ?
It is clearly not what God Says in His Word.

God knew they would choose to sin, and had already worked everything out concerning it! Eve's pride saw that it was "pleasant to the eyes" and "a tree to be desired to make one wise" (Gen 3:6). This is going beyond what God provided and wanted for them at the time.

We also notice the sin was prior to the temptation! Scripture says everything God made was good, not perfect. It's all just part of how He chose to do everything. One cannot say that God did not already know, even when He was commanding not to partake, that they would partake. God's omniscience answers many truths about Himself!

Thanks for the reply!