Omniscient God Math-proof

[joinfree]

Is known, that human H1 knows 10 facts. Group of facts of human H1 is denoted as
M_{H1}={F1,F2, ...., F10}.
Is known, that human H2 knows 25 facts: M_{H2}={F1,F2, ...., F25}. Let us consider Champion of the humans, HC, who knows all facts: M_{HC}={F1,F2, ...., FN}, where N>25 is the number of the facts, that exist in all Reality, {F1,F2, ...., FN} \in Reality. Then, inside group M_{HC} is the knowledge of own existence: F5={HC exists}. Therefore F5 \in M_{HC}, so M_{HC}={F1,F2, F3, F4, F5...., FN}. Let us recall, that M_{HC} is the group of all facts of Reality. Thus, the existence of the Champion is real: F5 \in Reality.

We are the champions,
Got time for lost ones,
Cause we are the champions
Of the Good!

Why the Theology is not a Science, while is taught in Top Scientific Universes? Not, theology is Science. Because Science is Quest for Knowledge. People, who want to know God better, are going into Theology. So, because the Physics and Theology are Established Sciences, then not all facts can be described within methodological atheism of Physics. The atheism, is the absolute solipsism, because word "Reality" is defined as "Reality is what comes from God." Do you have alternative definition?

Reality is the totality of all things that have objective existence. Reality and Existence are synonyms, not definitions. The fictional beings -if recognized as objects inside human imagination- are objectively real as real are books of fairytales. You can touch the book, you can smell the book. You can record the brain activity while reading the fairytale book. All that is physical and objectively real.

 

[DaisyDay]

Now that's Begging the Question - where the premise requires its conclusion to be true.

 

[Strathos]

How do you differentiate true facts from false facts in this system? If one of the 'facts' in your list is 2 + 2 = 5, that doesn't make it true by default. You could have a list of 10 billion false 'facts' and that would be worthless.

 

[Ophiolite]

Now that's Begging the Question - where the premise requires its conclusion to be true.

Well done for being able to disentangle enough meaning from the OP to get that far.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Leaving aside the flaws in the 'proof', this is not very omniscient. This 'god' only knows a finite number of facts (or at best a countable number of facts, if we bend over backward to help it along). It doesn't even know the answer to all questions of the form "Is x (a real number) the square root of an integer?" because there are more real numbers than integers.

 

[joinfree]

How do you differentiate true facts from false facts in this system? If one of the 'facts' in your list is 2 + 2 = 5, that doesn't make it true by default. You could have a list of 10 billion false 'facts' and that would be worthless.

There is specifically written: "where N>25 is the number of the facts, that exist in all Reality, {F1,F2, ...., FN} \in Reality." Real facts are not the false facts, are they?

 

[joinfree]

Now that's Begging the Question - where the premise requires its conclusion to be true.

There are no unproven assumptions in the proof.

 

[joinfree]

Leaving aside the flaws in the 'proof', this is not very omniscient. This 'god' only knows a finite number of facts (or at best a countable number of facts, if we bend over backward to help it along). It doesn't even know the answer to all questions of the form "Is x (a real number) the square root of an integer?" because there are more real numbers than integers.

If x is rational number, then there is last nonzero digit A with no non-zero digit B after it. If there is this non-zero digit B, it is known by God. So, without the knowledge of B, God concludes, that A is the last digit. This is fact of the number x. The omniscient one knows all facts.

 

[Gene2memE]

Why the Theology is not a Science, while is taught in Top Scientific Universes? Not, theology is Science.

The sciences are limited to the realm of reality - the sciences are the study of the natural world.

Theology is explicitly the study - or at least the pretense of study - of things outside the natural world, and beliefs about such things.

Theology is therefore not limited to the realm of reality and cannot be considered a science.

Because Science is Quest for Knowledge.

Science is a methodology to increase our knowledge of the natural world. It has defined limits, one of which is methodological naturalism.

People, who want to know God better, are going into Theology. So, because the Physics and Theology are Established Sciences, then not all facts can be described within methodological atheism of Physics.

Correct, not all facts can be described by physics. It cannot, for example, determine my subjective experience of the colour blue, or the new levels of disappointment I experience when reading some posts here.

The atheism, is the absolute solipsism, because word "Reality" is defined as "Reality is what comes from God." Do you have alternative definition?

Sure. I have many alternate definitions.

How about - "The sum set of all things that exist".
Or - "The state of properly existing"
Or - "That which doesn't go away when you close you eyes"

Reality is the totality of all things that have objective existence. Reality and Existence are synonyms, not definitions.

1. They're synonyms, but not synonymously identical - and they're certainly not the same thing
2. They're not definitions - they're words that have definitions conferred by common uses.

The fictional beings -if recognized as objects inside human imagination- are objectively real as real are books of fairytales. You can touch the book, you can smell the book. You can record the brain activity while reading the fairytale book. All that is physical and objectively real.

Sure, the book exists and there is a pattern of information contained in it - information which can be understood and tranferred to anyone with the ability to read the information.

However, that doesn't mean that anything contained in that information - the fairytales themselves - is in any way congruent with reality. I acknowledge that a book about the fictional character Red Riding Hood exists. Similarly though, I don't accept that cross dressing wolves with questionable sleeping habits eat septuagenarians.

 

[joinfree]

....Methodology.........
Or - "That which doesn't go away when you close you eyes"
........
1. They're synonyms, but not synonymously identical - and they're certainly not the same thing.......

The Methodology is the department inside the Science. Just like the Metrology of Science, so there is Methodology of Science. New methods are continuously coming into Methodology. If the Methodology is unchanging like god, there is no "logy" in Methodo-logy.
2) Permanent illness in form of persistent hallucinations?
3) You have not explained the difference.

 

[Gene2memE]

Science is a methodology - a process, or series of processes. Someone who uses those processes in their work can be said to be a scientist.

The processes of science are limited by matters of practicality. Generally speaking, work conducted in the field of the sciences needs to be testable, observable, repeatable, falsifiable and useful in explaining and making predictions in the natural world.

Theology has none of these characteristics or requirements. Ergo, theology is not the same as science.

Metrology, on the other hand, is the study and process of measurements WITHIN the sciences. It is a sub-field of the sciences - basically it establishes and standardises units of measurement.

In the sciences, the -logy suffix designates "study of", that's about it. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say this - If the Methodology is unchanging like god, there is no "logy" in Methodo-logy - and I don't really have the time to unpack nonsensical sentences.

 

[Strathos]

You can't just declare something to be a fact, which is what you are doing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Is known, that human H1 knows 10 facts. Group of facts of human H1 is denoted as
M_{H1}={F1,F2, ...., F10}.
Is known, that human H2 knows 25 facts: M_{H2}={F1,F2, ...., F25}. Let us consider Champion of the humans, HC, who knows all facts: M_{HC}={F1,F2, ...., FN}, where N>25 is the number of the facts, that exist in all Reality, {F1,F2, ...., FN} \in Reality. Then, inside group M_{HC} is the knowledge of own existence: F5={HC exists}. Therefore F5 \in M_{HC}, so M_{HC}={F1,F2, F3, F4, F5...., FN}. Let us recall, that M_{HC} is the group of all facts of Reality. Thus, the existence of the Champion is real: F5 \in Reality.

We are the champions,
Got time for lost ones,
Cause we are the champions
Of the Good!

Why the Theology is not a Science, while is taught in Top Scientific Universes? Not, theology is Science. Because Science is Quest for Knowledge. People, who want to know God better, are going into Theology. So, because the Physics and Theology are Established Sciences, then not all facts can be described within methodological atheism of Physics. The atheism, is the absolute solipsism, because word "Reality" is defined as "Reality is what comes from God." Do you have alternative definition?

Reality is the totality of all things that have objective existence. Reality and Existence are synonyms, not definitions. The fictional beings -if recognized as objects inside human imagination- are objectively real as real are books of fairytales. You can touch the book, you can smell the book. You can record the brain activity while reading the fairytale book. All that is physical and objectively real.

How long have you been having these thoughts? When did they first come to you?

 

[DaisyDay]

There are no unproven assumptions in the proof.

"Let us consider Champion of the humans, HC, who knows all facts"..."Thus, the existence of the Champion is real" - Begging the Question.

 

[joinfree]

"Let us consider Champion of the humans, HC, who knows all facts"..."Thus, the existence of the Champion is real" - Begging the Question.

We consider possibility.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There are no unproven assumptions in the proof.

Dude!

"Then, inside group M_{HC} is the knowledge of own existence: F5={HC exists}"

You placed her existence into the set of facts by hand.

 

[essentialsaltes]

If x is rational number, then there is last nonzero digit A with no non-zero digit B after it. If there is this non-zero digit B, it is known by God. So, without the knowledge of B, God concludes, that A is the last digit. This is fact of the number x. The omniscient one knows all facts.

#1: I said real numbers, not rational.
#2: 1/3 is a rational number. It has no last nonzero digit.

 

[joinfree]

Dude!

"Then, inside group M_{HC} is the knowledge of own existence: F5={HC exists}"

You placed her existence into the set of facts by hand.

Consider the possibility of the omniscient being. Then, He must know, that He exists. Thus, among the available knowledge exists also such a knowledge.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Consider the possibility of the omniscient being. Then, He must know, that He exists. Thus, among the available knowledge exists also such a knowledge.

Hurray, if an omniscient being exist, she knows she exists.

 

[Tayla]

Why the Theology is not a Science, while is taught in Top Scientific Universes? Not, theology is Science. Because Science is Quest for Knowledge.

Science is quest for knowledge about the material physical universe with the (false) assumption that there is no non-material spiritual realm.

Theology is the study of texts and religion assuming all kinds of untrue or unprovable things.

Theology needs to start embracing modern science, archaeology, biology, textual scholarship, and the like. For example:

1. Science demonstrates the earth (and modern humans) are old, yet much theology teaches creationism.
2. Many Christians insist certain things are sin, yet science shows they have a genetic source.
3. Many Christians think the body (the flesh) is the source of sin without considering how chemical reactions have anything to do with what is clearly spiritual, not physical.