Oldest rock in the world 2 days after creation (embedded age)

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

No He made rocks to be rocks. You just come along with a magic wand of natural only interpreting of all things and stick old ages on the poor rock. Presto! Then you blame God for tricking you no less. Weird

And yet through all the evidence He provided us to study in His creation, God shows that the rocks are billions of years old. Then you go around saying that's not true in the slightest, which either leaves God to be wrong or you to be wrong.

Genesis and Isaiah and Psalms and the gospels and epistles were all written long before that actually. It is cognitive dissonance to blame belief in the creation by God on some people decades ago in the USA

And yet Christianity had no problems accepting the age of the earth being much older than 6000 years, significantly older in fact, until the modern belief of YEC came about in the 60s.

It's not cognitive dissonance in the slightest to point that out.

I guess I am luck I don't know what they think

In as few words as possible... it makes bad science-fiction look good.

 

[truthpls]

You appear to to be stuck with an imaginary problem. Believing God (the trinity) initiated the creation of the universe through natural processes, as understood by science, is not inherently illogical or incompatible with religious faith, as it allows for a God who operates through established natural laws.

It is diametrically opposed to the whole bible. Doesn't that count? Also opposed to Jesus. Does that count? In that time when He made all things He also made man. That means man was here the same week as the stars were made. If one believes Jesus and the bible, not only are the claims of natural science about creation 'illogical' but truly diobiolical

I have never head the term "Satanic family". I tried looking it and got blank results leading me to believe that it is strictly in YOUR imagination.

Well, let's break down that phrase then. It seems to indicate a group of something that is Satanic. So if the sciences, we might say a family of various scientific disciplines all claim that creation of man and the world and universe came about some other way that a sudden direct miracle creation of God, then they would be a Satanic family in my book.

If you have any doubts or questions about what I or what Catholics believe regarding creation I encourage you to refer to the Niacin Creed. In short: Catholics believe that God created the universe and everything in it including the Earth, but are not taught to take the Genesis creation story literally.

My condolences then. However, when I said that creed long ago (or if I said it now) creation by God still was a big part of it. He created the heaven and earth.

In fact, the first part of it tells us that there is more than the natural and that God created it all!

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

It even mentions how Jesus made all things!
...Jesus Christ ...
Through him all things were made

/win

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If God can create anything and everything whenever He wants, why couldn't He have done it as science has shown us?

 

[AV1611VET]

If God can create anything and everything whenever He wants, why couldn't He have done it as science has shown us?

He could have, but death isn't what He initially had in mind.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

He could have, but death isn't what He initially had in mind.

How do you know that?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Tell us what more than the physical and natural science does work with then?

Evidence and models that fit evidence. Did you not get science class in middle school or junior high?

 

[dlamberth]

No He made rocks to be rocks. You just come along with a magic wand of natural only interpreting of all things and stick old ages on the poor rock. Presto! Then you blame God for tricking you no less. Weird

Personally, I honestly believe that it's YOU who is trying to trick us. But also I'm wondering at what point you've tricked yourself in the process.

What God does is straight up and honest with absolutely no deception. Various geochemical methods have verified those rocks in question as being billion of years in age. And so they are.

It's your belief that God is capable of deception that's at issue here.

 

[Frank Robert]

It is diametrically opposed to the whole bible. Doesn't that count? Also opposed to Jesus. Does that count? In that time when He made all things He also made man. That means man was here the same week as the stars were made. If one believes Jesus and the bible, not only are the claims of natural science about creation 'illogical' but truly diobiolical

That is a perspective held by some religious groups, but not universally accepted within Christianity

Well, let's break down that phrase then. It seems to indicate a group of something that is Satanic. So if the sciences, we might say a family of various scientific disciplines all claim that creation of man and the world and universe came about some other way that a sudden direct miracle creation of God, then they would be a Satanic family in my book.

Key words. "in my" (your) book

My condolences then. However, when I said that creed long ago (or if I said it now) creation by God still was a big part of it. He created the heaven and earth.

We are in agreement that God created heaven and earth.

In fact, the first part of it tells us that there is more than the natural and that God created it all!

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

It even mentions how Jesus made all things!
...Jesus Christ ...
Through him all things were made

/win

There is no disagreement that God created it all.

 

[BCP1928]

That is another issue. Most still accept that there is the supernatural. Science doesn't and for no reason! Science then is the odd man out here.

As long as they realize that the natural only range and scope and jurisdiction of science cannot cover where we came from because obviously there is more, I win.

My wife just created a pumpkin pie, (it being the season for that sort of thing and all) then she baked it in the oven. Oh! Did I just say that it was baked in the oven? That must mean that I am denying that my wife created the pie. and I must certainly be claiming that the oven made the pie all by itself.

 

[truthpls]

If God can create anything and everything whenever He wants, why couldn't He have done it as science has shown us?

Because He did it as He told us. He probably doesn't live for the job of ensuring that when He creates a universe, He does it the way natural science prefers.

 

[truthpls]

Personally, I honestly believe that it's YOU who is trying to trick us.

By claiming God is supernatural? Or claiming science deal only in the natural?

What God does is straight up and honest with absolutely no deception.

And what He did was created Adam and Eve and the world. No deception. The deception came by the serpent, who tried to cast doubt on God and His words.

Various geochemical methods have verified those rocks in question as being billion of years in age. And so they are.

False. The natural processes going on in the created rocks have led natural only science to think that IF only these were responsible for bringing things to exist, it would have taken a long long time. The processes are after the fact of coming to exist at creation, not what created the rock

It's your belief that God is capable of deception that's at issue here.

You were already told several times that all deception is on your end.

 

[BCP1928]

Because He did it as He told us. He probably doesn't live for the job of ensuring that when He creates a universe, He does it the way natural science prefers.

As you told us.

 

[truthpls]

My wife just created a pumpkin pie, (it being the season for that sort of thing and all) then she baked it in the oven. Oh! Did I just say that it was baked in the oven? That must mean that I am denying that my wife created the pie. and I must certainly be claiming that the oven made the pie all by itself.

Creating the universe in a day is not baking a pie. There may have been some thought and planning that went on before He spoke it into existence. Even some finishing touches after the world and stars came to exist, such as creating life here, and separating land from water etc. But the One who created it was God, and not some baking ingredients crawling out of a pond or exploding from a speck etc.

 

[truthpls]

As you told us.

No He told us all over His Scriptures. Don't disbelieve God and then try to blame it on me.

 

[truthpls]

That is a perspective held by some religious groups, but not universally accepted within Christianity

Then explain away this passage?

John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 -- He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Key words. "in my" (your) book

We are in agreement that God created heaven and earth.

There is no disagreement that God created it all.

Yes there is if you also claim to believe man actually was not formed from the ground, but descended from animals. Yes there is if God did not created the world before the sun and moon! Etc.

 

[BCP1928]

No He told us all over His Scriptures. Don't disbelieve God and then try to blame it on me.

No, you told us. Other people tell us differently, people whose scholarly ability and theological orthodoxy are convincing. But maybe you are right. Are you fluent in biblical Hebrew? Do you understand contemprorary Hebrew literary forms? Do you know anything about the history of the texts in question? Are you experienced in literary genre determination? What is your theory of divine inspiration? Why should we take your word about what the Bible says and what it really means over those devout scholars and theologians from the Fathers onward whose Christian witness we trust?

 

[BCP1928]

Then explain away this passage?

John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 -- He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

There is nothing to explain away. That passage is foundational to Christian doctrine for all Christians

Yes there is if you also claim to believe man actually was not formed from the ground, but descended from animals. Yes there is if God did not created the world before the sun and moon! Etc.

That passage from John stands alone, no matter how we interpret the Genesis creation stories.

 

[truthpls]

No, you told us.

God told us all through the bible.

Other people tell us differently, people whose scholarly ability and theological orthodoxy are convincing.

To you, baseless doubts and rejecting God and His word and creation may be convincing. You have posted no logical or bible support.

But maybe you are right. Are you fluent in biblical Hebrew?

God did not write the bible for people fluent in some particular language. It translates well to any language. And even for those who can't read or speak!

Do you understand contemprorary Hebrew literary forms?

Do you understand they don't matter much and not at all to the bible wide narrative of creation? You do realize that Jesus spoke another language probably? Can you show us from the Greek in the new testament where Jesus promised to send His spirit from heaven to give the words in Hebrew?

Do you know anything about the history of the texts in question?

Jesus did and He believed and preached them.

Are you experienced in literary genre determination? What is your theory of divine inspiration?

Inspiration is not a theory. And anyone that determines that God got it wrong and did not create as He said is of the unbelieving 'genre'

Why should we take your word about what the Bible says and what it really means over those devout scholars and theologians from the Fathers onward whose Christian witness we trust?

Like the Catholic teachings I grew up with that taught Adam and Eve? Or the teaching of last week from that church that preach the opposite? We have God's word for it, why would we need little doubting Thomases wearing a robe to tell us what Jesus really meant?

 

[BCP1928]

Creating the universe in a day is not baking a pie. There may have been some thought and planning that went on before He spoke it into existence. Even some finishing touches after the world and stars came to exist, such as creating life here, and separating land from water etc. But the One who created it was God, and not some baking ingredients crawling out of a pond or exploding from a speck etc.

OK, and?

 

[truthpls]

OK, and?

So you pie parable bit the dust