Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The narrative I was talking about is a 6 day creation that happened only 6000 years ago. God's own Creation is telling a very different story. What I feel is a direct contradiction to God is not taking God's own Creation, as Created by God, at what it's showing of itSelf.The person to whom I replied. He said
"Created, yes. But in a different way than it's depicted in the Biblical narrative. "
That is a direct contradiction to God and Scripture.
Can't help you there. I agree entirely with John on that point.The 'biblical narrative' mentioned did not mention that.
Galatians 1:8
Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.
That sounds like we should stick to what we were told. Part of that is telling us He created the world. Science opposes this and exalts it's claims above what any interpretation of much of the bible says!
John 1:10 -- He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him
Explain how this 'really' means that He did NOT create the world? Explain how observing that it says He did create the world is some position John was dictating?
If God was not creating the natural world, what was he creating?False. If creation was not natural, as it wasn't, then the natural only crowd could never ever come to any knowledge about how God created.
Maybe rewrite that thought. It seems somewhat garbled.If your talking about me, I was only opening the spiritual as experienced which is different that "belief".
Your mode of operation is to claim spiritual authority.
In what way is, for example John telling us that Jesus made the planet a 'religious belief'?But from where I come from what your really talking about are your "religious beliefs".
No. It is not doing anything of the kind. God's word tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.That's especially true when it comes to your Creation narrative. This World, in fact all of the Cosmos is showing us a very different Creation story than what your religious beliefs are telling us.
No, only the natural is in the realm of science. Not creation. So when so called science mouths off and tells us that some rock that was created 2 days ago (in the OP example) is billions of years old and came about some other way that being created by God, they are talking out of their hat.Either way, it's not the realm of science to bring religious beliefs or even the spiritual into it's study of the physical world.
You might as well say 'In my spiritual experience, I get tingles up my spine in the morning when thinking of Darwin, and like to call this special time and experience 'spiritual' 'In my spiritual experience, the Heart of Christ IS "Infinite Divine Love/Activated".
All you do is misuse the word spiritual. Then you try to tack it on the physical world.Which, spiritually runs completely through and within ALL of this physical world.
Jesus said His Father actually was. Who are we to believe? You are inventing a little phrase about some 'in the world, and physical' 'force' that is wholly made up, and trying to claim that is what powered Jesus. Then you say that the bible (bible narrative) is wrong."Infinite Divine Love/Activated" is the essence behind the miracles that Jesus performed.
Not the Christ that made the world though. Funny, that. Again, you misuse the word 'Christ'So it IS Christ whom I've been talking about.
Unless He is the Jesus of the bible and gospels, then it is not Jesus. There is only one name under heaven and in this world spoken among men that saves. Only one name that created the world. If you have some touchy feely physical oriented 'spiritual' experience involving someone else named 'jesus' that has nothing to do with God or creation of Scripture. Or, I might add, reality.I'm of understanding that's a different Jesus than you know. And I get that.
So how does that work? When John tells us Jesus made the world, are you claiming He took billions of years, and that the beginning He referred to was not that in Genesis? When we are told He created man, are you saying we actually came from animals and stardust, and that God had no active role to speak of and that He verified Scripture that is false as well?The narrative I was talking about is a 6 day creation that happened only 6000 years ago.
Misusing the words 'god's creation' when talking about man that came from worm like ancestors in a universe that made itself has no meaning. That is a bit like spraying expensive perfume on a manure pile (and Vernon Magee used to say)God's own Creation is telling a very different story.
Yet you call man, which was God's creation something else. The same is true of the world and life on earth, and the universe. So what you are actually talking about is the way you see it all and how it was not created. Then you use the words 'god's creation' for that.What I feel is a direct contradiction to God is not taking God's own Creation, as Created by God, at what it's showing of itSelf.
Perhaps He did. That is what science has proposed, anyway, and since I don't have a dog in that fight don't care very much. I don't think Genesis was written with the intention of giving us an exact timeline.So how does that work? When John tells us Jesus made the world, are you claiming He took billions of years,
Perhaps so. I don't believe that Genesis was written with the intention of giving us a scientific description of human origins.and that the beginning He referred to was not that in Genesis? When we are told He created man, are you saying we actually came from animals and stardust,
God had a direct and active role in all of it.and that God had no active role to speak of and that He verified Scripture that is false as well?
I certainly don't believe that the universe "made itself."Misusing the words 'god's creation' when talking about man that came from worm like ancestors in a universe that made itself has no meaning. That is a bit like spraying expensive perfume on a manure pile (and Vernon Magee used to say)
Science is attempting to give us a plausible picture of how it looked "from the inside" as it was being created, that's all.Yet you call man, which was God's creation something else. The same is true of the world and life on earth, and the universe. So what you are actually talking about is the way you see it all and how it was not created. Then you use the words 'god's creation' for that.
Well, it's what God's own Creation is showing us about itSelf.So how does that work? When John tells us Jesus made the world, are you claiming He took billions of years, and that the beginning He referred to was not that in Genesis?
See my reply above.When we are told He created man, are you saying we actually came from animals and stardust, and that God had no active role to speak of and that He verified Scripture that is false as well?
Where you see no meaning, I see the wonders of the creating life force powers of my Beloved God with in His own Creation. It's interesting the difference in which you and I experience the Divine Blessings with in this Creation.Misusing the words 'god's creation' when talking about man that came from worm like ancestors in a universe that made itself has no meaning. That is a bit like spraying expensive perfume on a manure pile (and Vernon Magee used to say)
The difference between us is in the process that the Earth and all of the Cosmos was created.Yet you call man, which was God's creation something else. The same is true of the world and life on earth, and the universe. So what you are actually talking about is the way you see it all and how it was not created. Then you use the words 'god's creation' for that.
That's interesting. A Traditional Christian (this one, anyway) believes that divine causality is present in every part of the universe.Truthpls, let me help you out here, brother.
Dlamberth is a panentheist.
From AI Overview:
A panentheist is someone who believes that the divine is present in every part of the universe, and extends beyond space and time. The term "panentheism" comes from the Greek words pan, meaning "all", en, meaning "in", and theism, meaning "God".
I see. So an unbelief then. OK. I guess his talking about being a lover of god etc threw me. TksTruthpls, let me help you out here, brother.
Dlamberth is a panentheist.
From AI Overview:
A panentheist is someone who believes that the divine is present in every part of the universe, and extends beyond space and time. The term "panentheism" comes from the Greek words pan, meaning "all", en, meaning "in", and theism, meaning "God".
What's time to a timeless being?So how does that work? When John tells us Jesus made the world, are you claiming He took billions of years
So there we have it. You think John may have been talking about Jesus creating this world over billions of years.Perhaps He did.
Yet it does give a timeline of events and people. That means the timeline roughly to creation.That is what science has proposed, anyway, and since I don't have a dog in that fight don't care very much. I don't think Genesis was written with the intention of giving us an exact timeline.
You have to add the rest of the bible there. Yet it all says God created and this is the origin.Perhaps so. I don't believe that Genesis was written with the intention of giving us a scientific description of human origins.
This is directly contrary to Scripture as just posted above for example. His hands made heaven and earth, not had some role in it!God had a direct and active role in all of it.
No. There is no God or creator in their thoughts at all. They just rewind natural processes and explain it accordingly with no God.I certainly don't believe that the universe "made itself."
Science is attempting to give us a plausible picture of how it looked "from the inside" as it was being created, that's all.
He made the and man and beasts and heaven and earth and birds and fish and etc at the same time. Even science knows man is not billions of years old.What's time to a timeless being?
Creation shows us He created. Not how.Well, it's what God's own Creation is showing us about itSelf.
Jesus and the rest of Scripture must have also been wrong in your mind. I do not see that the creation account was not supposed to be real either. The serpent deceived Eve there. Try and explain that with 'men' who were born of animals?There's no doubt in my mind that the beginning of Genesis does have a deep spiritual meaning. I've spent a fair amount of time with it. But its not to be taken as a literal historical event.
Happy hallucinations I guess. Part of the wonder of creation is that He created it. Whatever force you think you see in the physical world that is not Jesus or His spirit is not the creator. Not God. And the stellar and biologically evolved world that science thinks it sees is an alternate reality dream.Where you see no meaning, I see the wonders of the creating life force powers of my Beloved God with in His own Creation.
There is only two views. That He created the world and heaven, or that it came to exist some other wayIt's interesting the difference in which you and I experience the Divine Blessings with in this Creation.
The difference between us is in the process that the Earth and all of the Cosmos was created.
You didn't answer the question.He made the and man and beasts and heaven and earth and birds and fish and etc at the same time. Even science knows man is not billions of years old.
Why would God need to make them all at the same time? Whether one accepts the science or not, the fossil record, while not perfect, provides physical evidence of past life forms across different geological time periods. Denying the science creates countless hoops that creationists need to jump through to convince themselves.He made the and man and beasts and heaven and earth and birds and fish and etc at the same time. Even science knows man is not billions of years old.
1. "How did the carpenter drive that nail?"So there we have it. You think John may have been talking about Jesus creating this world over billions of years.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him
That does not seem like an honest reading of Scripture to me. I don't think thrones and dominions and rulers here were meant to be thought of as billions of years old. So what do we do, pick out the one bit of the thought/verse (in heaven and on earth) and assign billions of years to it?
When the bible talks about in the beginning, I think we all pretty well know what that refers to. Example:
1 Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning
Who would seriously claim that meant billions of years ago?
Yet it does give a timeline of events and people. That means the timeline roughly to creation.
You have to add the rest of the bible there. Yet it all says God created and this is the origin.
He spelled it out that it was not natural or happenstance. Many times. Example:
Acts 7:50
Didn't my hands make both heaven and earth?'
Once again, direct from the mouth of God in the first person.
This is directly contrary to Scripture as just posted above for example. His hands made heaven and earth, not had some role in it!
No. There is no God or creator in their thoughts at all. They just rewind natural processes and explain it accordingly with no God.
AIs apparently never show any humility nor even an occasional sense of humor.I must say, I very much enjoy the dichotomy of “science take a hike, it has no place in the Bible” and “Alexa, craft an AI argument that is incontrovertible proof that I’m 100% right about everything.”
So now that you have reached that conclusion, what are you going to do about it?Creation shows us He created. Not how.
Jesus and the rest of Scripture must have also been wrong in your mind. I do not see that the creation account was not supposed to be real either. The serpent deceived Eve there. Try and explain that with 'men' who were born of animals?
Happy hallucinations I guess. Part of the wonder of creation is that He created it. Whatever force you think you see in the physical world that is not Jesus or His spirit is not the creator. Not God. And the stellar and biologically evolved world that science thinks it sees is an alternate reality dream.
There is only two views. That He created the world and heaven, or that it came to exist some other way
Glad to have you back. I hope you guys are still doing OK.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?