Oldest rock in the world 2 days after creation (embedded age)

[tampasteve]

The question is phrased as if God was deceptive.

Instead of:

If God created the world 6000 years ago, why did He seemingly intentionally make [rocks] appear to be millions of years old?

It should read:

If God created the world 6000 years ago, why did He intentionally make [rocks] millions of years old?

And the answer I propose is that older rocks provide benefits that younger rocks do not.

Older rocks, for instance, are not as strong as younger rocks, and they can be broken up more easily and used for construction.

Thus, during the Creation Week, God gave us both old and new rocks to serve many purposes.

It's kinda along this principle:

Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

I'm not concerned so much with rocks, or God making them to seem a certain age. I am more concentrated on fossils and how they are found in certain places, certain strata, etc. We know that certain species of plants and animals lived at certain times and not at the same time. Being that as it is I can't come up with a reasonable reason why God would do that. Did he make the fossils alone and the animals didn't ever live?

Honestly, the only way that I can come up with YEC being correct is for God to be intentionally deceptive in some way for some reason. Since I don't believe that is possible I can't square with YECism. So, I interpret that taking the scripture to literally read that the whole Earth is only 6,000 years old can't be the correct interpretation.

 

[BCP1928]

Seems like contempt of Christianity.

Only if you define 'Christianity' so as to exclude the majority of the world's Christians. But that's already been done for you by the creationist participants in this discussion. My contempt is for the act of doing it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did he make the fossils alone and the animals didn't ever live?

No.

Honestly, the only way that I can come up with YEC being correct is for God to be intentionally deceptive in some way for some reason. Since I don't believe that is possible I can't square with YECism.

For the record, I'm not a YEC.

So, I interpret that taking the scripture to literally read that the whole Earth is only 6,000 years old can't be the correct interpretation.

I'm going to agree with this.

I believe the earth is as old as God willed it.

10,000 or 10 billion years old, makes no difference to me.

As Peter said ...

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

The thing is though, no matter how old He made it, it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only if you define 'Christianity' so as to exclude the majority of the world's Christians.

Do you know the difference between "Christianity" and "Christendom"?

 

[AaronClaricus]

I'm not concerned so much with rocks, or God making them to seem a certain age. I am more concentrated on fossils and how they are found in certain places, certain strata, etc. We know that certain species of plants and animals lived at certain times and not at the same time. Being that as it is I can't come up with a reasonable reason why God would do that. Did he make the fossils alone and the animals didn't ever live?

Honestly, the only way that I can come up with YEC being correct is for God to be intentionally deceptive in some way for some reason. Since I don't believe that is possible I can't square with YECism. So, I interpret that taking the scripture to literally read that the whole Earth is only 6,000 years old can't be the correct interpretation.

Embedded age assumes that fossils were never alive. That was my problem with embedded age. The chronological age of some geologies through biology is too long.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

For the record, I'm not a YEC.

You are though.

 

[tampasteve]

The thing is though, no matter how old He made it, it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.

Can you elaborate? So you believe that God made the Earth to be some age, be it 10,000 or 10B but that it has only been around since 4004 BC? If that is the case how did all the animals actually live in the past ages? I am not understanding what you believe. It seems you are saying that God made the Earth 6,000 years ago to appear to be whatever age it seems, which would mean that the animals didn't live on Earth, that God created them as fossils or he created them in some phantom way and they lived in a different realm and then died in that realm only to be put here?

I am sorry, I am just not following.

Embedded age assumes that fossils were never alive. That was my problem with embedded age. The chronological age of some geologies through biology is too long.

I think that I agree, but it doesn't point to a 6,0000 year old Earth - we have plenty of fossil and archaeological evidence older than that.

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you elaborate?

I believe God created the earth (and universe) circa 4004 BC.

But some things needed to be young, and some things needed to be old.

Old rocks, for example, can be broken up easily and used for paving and masonry projects.

Radioactivity in rocks help regulate the earth's temperature.

Adam & Eve would not have been able to do anything as tiny infants.

Age makes a difference; and I define Embedded Age Creation as "maturity without history."

 

[BCP1928]

Do you know the difference between "Christianity" and "Christendom"?

Yes, but I am interested to see what rhetorical use of the distinction you can make in order to condemn the faith of Christians who don't require the literal inerrancy of Genesis.

 

[tampasteve]

I believe God created the earth (and universe) circa 4004 BC.

But some things needed to be young, and some things needed to be old.

Old rocks, for example, can be broken up easily and used for paving and masonry projects.

Radioactivity in rocks help regulate the earth's temperature.

Adam & Eve would not have been able to do anything as tiny infants.

Age makes a difference; and I define Embedded Age Creation as "maturity without history."

OK, I think that I am following, so you believe that God created the fossils as mature fossils without a history on Earth? Why? Fossils matter - they are there and they don't give us any resources and are not needed. I am not talking about oil or such resources, I am talking about fossils of dinosaurs, ice age mammals, Eocene invertebrates - creatures that all appear to have lived at a time. We have fossils of animals that have eaten other animals - we have frozen mammoths and saber tooth cats.

Why would God have placed these in the geological record for us to find? Why create them mature and without history? Honestly it seems deceptive.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, but I am interested to see what rhetorical use of the distinction you can make in order to condemn the faith of Christians who don't require the literal inerrancy of Genesis.

You are the one adding condemnation into the conversation.

So please don't ask me to explain your "mystery ingredient."

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, I think that I am following, so you believe that God created the fossils ...

Who said anything about fossils?

There was no death prior to the Fall.

 

[tampasteve]

Who said anything about fossils?

There was no death prior to the Fall.

I did, that is what I have been asking about. They are there - I find them myself as a amateur paleontologist. They are animals and plants that were once living that died and were fossilized. How are they explained in your view?

 

[BCP1928]

You are the one adding condemnation into the conversation.

So please don't ask me to explain your "mystery ingredient."

I'm not adding it, I'm just calling it out. In fact I had thought better of you than that you would do such a thing, but your enthusiastic support of truthpls and Aaron in this disscussion who have made that condemnation their explicit purpose has caused me to change my mind.

 

[AV1611VET]

I did, that is what I have been asking about. They are there - I find them myself as a amateur paleontologist. They are animals and plants that were once living that died and were fossilized. How are they explained in your view?

Plants and animals and people died, and some were fossilized.

I'll make this up, just for clarity's sake:

God creates the earth in 4004 BC -- no fossils.

Hundreds of years later, after plants and animals and people have died, some of them fossilize.

I'm not sure where I'm not being clear enough.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not adding it, I'm just calling it out.

Feel free to post something I said, and highlight it in red where I condemned anyone.

 

[BCP1928]

Feel free to post something I said, and highlight it in red where I condemned anyone.

Your enthusiastic support of truthpls and Aaron in this disscussion who have made that condemnation their explicit purpose is enough.

 

[tampasteve]

Plants and animals and people died, and some were fossilized.

I'll make this up, just for clarity's sake:

God creates the earth in 4004 BC -- no fossils.

Hundreds of years later, after plants and animals and people have died, some of them fossilize.

I'm not sure where I'm not being clear enough.

So your position is that people, dinosaurs, flying reptiles, ice age mega fauna, etc. all existed at the same time and some were subsequently fossilized post 4004 BC?

I agree that some animals and plants were fossilized post 4004 BC, but I find it a great stretch to say that all of these animals, clearly delineated in the fossil record and different layers of the Earth, were existent and fossilized post 4004 BC. We find dinosaurs where we should, and not after. We find mammoths where we should, and not before or after. We find people where we should, and not before.

The record that God has shown us through science and investigation just does not show it that way, it just doesn't. IMO either God created the fossils as fossils and they didn't live - ever - or some sort of evolutionary creationism is the only honest answer that can be reconciled with the records we can observe.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your enthusiastic support of truthpls and Aaron in this disscussion who have made that condemnation their explicit purpose is enough.

Ah ... guilt by association?

 

[NxNW]

God creates the earth in 4004 BC -- no fossils.

Hundreds of years later, after plants and animals and people have died, some of them fossilize.

I'm not sure where I'm not being clear enough.

Given that no human being has ever seen a living dinosaur, that's a nonsensical position. The K-T Boundary serves no theological purpose and was not created "without history" anymore than the sun was created with 40% of its fuel already depleted.