old earth creationism

I posted a rundown of various ideas earlier, but since it has come back to this ...

Nothing says the earth can't be old and there already having been a "backstory" which the Bible doesn't include, and then Creation follows. (Often this is seen as a "re-creation")

Just one theory of several available to fit your question.

seashale76 said:

Fact 1: Evolution is observable in nature.

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Sorry. Evolution is a theory of origins and common descent. It is NOT observable, has never been observed, and there is no biological process for increasing complexity. Speciation has been observed, which is another word for adaptation. It always results in a loss of genetic information. New genetic information does not pop out of the skies and encode itself into the reproductive system.

Natural selection is part of evolution, as is mutation, and genetic drift- these things exist.

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Lying is a part of evolution, and the big lie that all evolutionists tell is that observable adaptation is evidence of increasing complexity. It is not. Inductive reasoning involves taking what you know and extrapolating it into the unknown. Evolutionists say that because we see minor changes in living things that it's evidence of major changes over time. That isn't science, that's conjecture. We don't see irradiated fruit flies becoming anything other than messed up fruit flies which revert to stasis over subsequent generations when the radiation is removed.

One example that proves evolution to you and even fits within a 24-hour timeline: Bacterial evolution, in every sense of the word, occurs very rapidly.

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Bacteria do not evolve. They are always bacteria; further poof of the lies of evolution. It's like saying the natural gestation of a baby proves evolution; another lie they've used in the past. Bacteria readily adapt to changes in the environment, which is what bacteria do.

Fact 2: Our scriptures do not touch on the how of creation, because that wasn't the point of them.

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False. The Scriptures state that God spoke a mature planet into being; that everything was created in its mature state; and that the air filled with fowl and the sea teeming with fish happened more or less instantly. They state that God created man from the dust of the earth, not from any previously existing animal. They state the creation took six days, not millions of years. There are no passages of Scriptures which contradict this. Claiming that the Scriptures allow for evolution is false teaching.

It's silly to read science into something that was never meant to convey such things.

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And yet evolutionists and atheists challenge the scientific accuracy of the Bible constantly.

The purpose of the scriptures is to reveal God's purpose for man via the person of Christ. Evolution, the age of the earth, etcetera- or a vehement denial of the lack thereof- simply isn't found in the scriptures AT ALL.

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Might I ask which Bible you are reading? Mine gives the genealogies from Adam to Noah, from Noah to Abraham, and from Abraham to Jesus. It says nothing about Adam evolving from a simpler life form. It says that God created everything in six days and rested on the seventh, which became the basis of the Fourth Commandment. I suspect that you aren't actually reading a Bible; that you're getting your misinformation from someone else who is telling you what the Bible says and doesn't say. If you ever actually read it, you would know otherwise. I'm certain that you personally would never post provable lies if you you actually knew the truth. I invite you to take some time and actually read the Scriptures so you know that what you've been told is false. That way you don't get cast into the group of false teachers who are telling lies about the Scriptures.

The only thing the scriptures tell us is that God is responsible for creation.

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Again, I would invite you to actually read at least the first three chapters of Genesis. You're saying things that are provably false. In fact, I'll help.

Genesis 1
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

No evolution involved at all, you see.

Genesis is based on oral tradition and has a completely different focus than what science would even be looking at.

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Genesis was written by Moses as directed by God so that the many oral recountings of creation would be in written form, accurate in detail as the Lord revealed. Moses was NOT Aesop. He didn't collect fables and publish them.

That people expend so much energy trying to make this a salvation issue- when all Christians involved believed that creation wouldn't be possible without God is petty and missing the forest for the trees.

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Who said it was a salvation issue? I've never seen a post where anyone said that if you didn't believe in the accuracy of the Scriptures that you were condemned. Jesus said to believe in Him and you would be saved. That doesn't mean you won't have to answer for your rejection of the Scriptures, but I don't think believing in molecules-to-man will keep you out of Heaven.

Look at it this way: God was talking to primitive people. If God tried to say something to them about quantum partials and string theory and dark mater no one would believe it and he would never get around to the IMPORTANT things.

When someone says “I baked you a cake for your birthday!” they usually don’t say “I decided to make you a cake for your birthday so first I went to the cabinet to see what I had… then I went to my desk drawer and got a pen and wrote a list of ingredients that I needed. After that I went to the bathroom, found my keys on the dining room table, put them in the ignition, turned the car on, backed out of my driveway, and drove down fifth street towards Vons. I parked my car, got out, closed the door, and walked into the store. First I headed for the dairy section and bought eggs…” etc.

I believe “I baked you a cake” is sufficient and “God created the universe” is in the same vain.

I also think that the really important points ARE presented in genesis:

God created the universe and everything in it. First he made a place, and then he filled it with life and beauty, after each thing he made he blessed it and called it “good”. People were created in God’s image. People were charged with taking care of the earth. The whole thing was very. Very good.

Notice that the 6 days of creation have a symmetry to them:
1 light 4 stars, sun, moon
2 air and water 5 birds and fish
3 land 6 animals and people
7 Rest

It was also important that God rested because everyone needs rest, and this was important to Jewish morality that the animals and the slaves and even the land got rest… at the time this was a crazy huge idea! Now days we take two days a week off and think nothing of it.

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THe website was great and everything i loved it, but up until they started saying they dont believe in evolution is when i was left wondering how is this possible

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I am not sure whether I have posted this link previously:

BioLogos: Science and faith in harmony

They definitely do believe in evolution, because they are professional scientists, and some of them quite well known, but they are also committed Christians. Creationism is true only in the restricted sense that God is the creator and sustainer of all things - trying to read Genesis 1-2 as history is not tenable. Another link which might be useful to you is:

Veritas :: Talks

That is a conservative theologian (who accepts evolution) discussing the subject of Genesis and evolution with a couple of scientists (who are Christians).

seashale76 said:

My standard copy and paste of older posts of mine when this topic comes up:

Fact 1: Evolution is observable in nature. Natural selection is part of evolution, as is mutation, and genetic drift- these things exist. One example that proves evolution to you and even fits within a 24-hour timeline: Bacterial evolution, in every sense of the word, occurs very rapidly.

Fact 2: Our scriptures do not touch on the how of creation, because that wasn't the point of them. It's silly to read science into something that was never meant to convey such things. The purpose of the scriptures is to reveal God's purpose for man via the person of Christ. Evolution, the age of the earth, etcetera- or a vehement denial of the lack thereof- simply isn't found in the scriptures AT ALL. The only thing the scriptures tell us is that God is responsible for creation. The Old Testament points to Christ with types and anti-types of Christ. The scriptures aren't scientific documents, and I honestly don't see how science can be applied to them. Genesis is based on oral tradition and has a completely different focus than what science would even be looking at.

That people expend so much energy trying to make this a salvation issue- when all Christians involved believed that creation wouldn't be possible without God is petty and missing the forest for the trees. The only issue on this matter that a theist should have with an atheist is that of abiogenesis- but that is directly related to one camp not believing in God- and is the only issue of any import.

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Evolution is not observable. Look it up .All observable changes from natrual selection and mutations are within family level of animals. Speaking of forests, where did they come from? Where did they evolve from? What about whales? And bombadier beetles? Where is your evidence?
I am sure evolution is dead. No proof no evidence. Believing nothing exploded and for no aparent reason inflated. Believing, although noone has observed so, that nebulae form stars. Also believing that heavy particles condensed and formed planets despite evidence that opposes it. Believing that the universe is rightly proportioned for life. Believing that humans arose from millions of years of bloodshed and death under the name of "natural selection". Why believe in. This when there is a straightforward solution in the Bible? Why?

Youngearthcreationist said:

Evolution is not observable. Look it up .All observable changes from natrual selection and mutations are within family level of animals. Speaking of forests, where did they come from? Where did they evolve from? What about whales? And bombadier beetles? Where is your evidence?
I am sure evolution is dead. No proof no evidence. Believing nothing exploded and for no aparent reason inflated. Believing, although noone has observed so, that nebulae form stars. Also believing that heavy particles condensed and formed planets despite evidence that opposes it. Believing that the universe is rightly proportioned for life. Believing that humans arose from millions of years of bloodshed and death under the name of "natural selection". Why believe in. This when there is a straightforward solution in the Bible? Why?

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Hello and welcome to CF. We are glad that you've joined us.

However, please note that this thread is more than 4-1/2 years old. It would be more appropriate to begin new threads. Some of the people in this one are no longer posting on the forum and it doesn't make sense to engage what they posted some years ago.

Unless the OP comes in and wishes more help, I'm going to lock the thread if it simply leads to debate (especially since this is a no-debate forum).

There are plenty of areas where you can begin threads to discuss this topic, but this area is just for non-Christians to open threads.

I would suggest

Creation and Evolution https://www.christianforums.com/forums/creation-evolution.70/ - if you want to discuss/debate with both Christians and non-Christians

Creation and Theistic Evolution https://www.christianforums.com/forums/creation-theistic-evolution.143/ - for Christian-only discussion

or General Theology https://www.christianforums.com/forums/general-theology.80/ - if you want a less-focused Christian-only discussion.

If you ever want to see the guidelines for any particular area, most have a "Statement of purpose" as a sticky at the top of the forum with the area rules and guidelines.

Again, welcome to CF!