Old and New Testament Discrepancy - What Gives?

[bling]

So the Bible is supposed to be a tabloid?

I thought it was supposed to be a book teaching us how to live, not a book explaining what went on in Bronze Age Israel. We have history books for that.

What it reveals is a nature completely opposite of the God in the NT; Jesus. OT God says "Rawr see my power feel my wrath, I'll cast plagues upon you, flood you, exterminate you, order you to be sentenced to death. Fear me and love me at the same time, broken sinners."...NT God says "Have peace and love others around you, do them no harm. I am peaceful and merciful."

It seems we have two completely different Gods here, unless we're still running with the analogy that this is two sides of the same coin or in other words: two-faced. How is it a positive thing that God is two-faced? That's why Two-Face is a villain in comic books (Batman), you can't trust somebody with two completely different sides.

Everything has to be understood from the objectives:

Man’s objective: Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy. To do this we have to obtain Godly Type Love while here on earth (the only place where we can accept this Love as a gift.

God’s objective is to do all He can to help willing humans fulfill their objective.

Humans were created because: God’s Love compelled God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (it is all done for the sake of other [totally unselfish on God’s part]).
Love is the greatest force in all universes (since it compels God to do all He does) and is thus a totally undeserving gift available to all humans.

All of history (everything that happened in the past, including the OT) is building to the time we are in which is the ideal situation for obtaining Godly type Love for those that are just willing to accept God’s charity.

We needed the Garden situation to show us why a place without pain, hardship, sin, needy people, limited resources, death and having a close physical relationship with God was a really lousy and even impossible place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

We needed to see the situation under the Law and a physical nation with boarders, to know how that does not work. (We cannot earn our salvation).

Just as going through the Garden situation does not mean Adam and Eve were lost, the Jews that went through the Law/land situation were not all lost, because they could all see how the method does not work and turn to God for His help (mercy/grace/Love/forgiveness/charity).

 

[seashale76]

To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

The Old Testament shows types and anti-types of Christ. Even many of the violent events found in the OT attest to this view. The New Testament shows Christ revealed. Everything we do in the Church has its fulfillment in Christ. The Jewish feasts/festivals have their fulfillment in the feasts of the Church. We fast as well. I don't see the Church ignoring the Old Testament- just the opposite- actually.

Frankly- perhaps the perception of a different God isn't that God is different- but that you're looking at things the wrong way. I'll give you an example- Psalm 137:9 "Happy [shall he be], that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." This is one of my favorite psalms that we sing during the Great Fast before Pascha (By the Waters of Babylon). I totally agree with it. Little ones refers to our sins being dashed when we repent and turn to Christ.

It is important to note that Christ fulfilled the law, he didn't abolish it. The Church has never been bound by all 613 commandments. Your clue is to look to the New Testament. The Council of Jerusalem as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles clarified a lot of things for Christians. In Acts 15:19-20 we're told to abstain from what has been strangled, from blood, and from any food and other things offered to idols, and sexual immorality. These things are referred to in the New Testament as being prohibited to believers and are still in effect as far as the Church canons are concerned.

The early Christians had liturgy based off of Jewish liturgical worship (Christ and the apostles were Jewish)- except everything about Christian worship is understood to be fulfilled in Christ- and the worship of the Jews was transformed by Christ who fulfilled everything they had been waiting for. The New Testament is part of Holy Tradition (and if you only have part of Holy Tradition you're missing the rest of it- though it is an extremely important part). The Church came first and then the New Testament- the worship of the Church is liturgical and if one is in the Church, they are expected to live a life in Christ. Because of Christ- we now have the hope of salvation- and this is possible in His Church. The Church, guided in all things by the Holy Spirit tells us how to attain this- and even how to view the Old Testament (as types and anti-types of Christ).

We are told in Romans that we are justified by faith.

The conclusion of the narrative is that while man changes and may be unfaithful, God does not change and He remains faithful.

As Gentiles failed to keep the natural law, so Jews failed to keep the Law of Moses. In summary, all are sinners before God. Verse 23 tells us that even if we should keep the Law, we would still fall short of the Glory of God, for we would still die and need salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ alone lived in complete righteousness. He alone was resurrected to the Eternal Life. Concluding that only through the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the way to God Himself (also John 14:6).

Justification by faith is a complex topic. As Christians, we are no longer under the auspices of the Old Testament Law as written in the Holy Book of Romans 3:20 because the Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled the Law (Galatians 2:21). By the mercy of God, we are brought into a New Covenant relationship with Him. Through this mercy we are justified by faith and EMPOWERED by God for good works which bring glory to His Holy Name. SUSCopts.org

I highly recommend this podcast series on the bible to you. Dr. Constantinou of the University of San Diego essentially covers what she would in one of her survey courses. This goes in depth on the topics of scripture (old and new). You can look at the page to find all of her other podcasts. Introduction To The Bible Lesson 2 Inspiration And Inerrancy - Search the Scriptures - Ancient Faith Radio

 

[Cuddles333]

To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

Perhaps the reason the New Testament is so much better understood by those who have studied the Old Testament is because salvation was first extended to the Jews. They were trained to understand the Law and taught to understand prophesy and see fulfillment of prophesy 1500 years before Christ. Incredibly, they ended up rejecting their Messiah, so God took His covenant of salvation away from them and offered it to the rest of the world. This may be why so many have difficulty in seeing any harmony between the 2 covenants. Because we Gentiles were not supposed to have this blessing!

 

[Tenorikuma]

Perhaps the reason the New Testament is so much better understood by those who have studied the Old Testament is because salvation was first extended to the Jews. […] This may be why so many have difficulty in seeing any harmony between the 2 covenants. Because we Gentiles were not supposed to have this blessing!

So, given the options between:

(1) A universal God who loves everyone, even though the Jews originally thought he was their God only…

(2) A tribal god who originally only loved the Jews, because a book those same Jews wrote says so…

You choose number 2? Really?

 

[FlamingZword]

The Old testament is the foundation for the new testament.

Without the old testament there is no new testament.

one-lord.org

 

[Nanopants]

The Old testament is the foundation for the new testament.

Without the old testament there is no new testament.

one-lord.org

Sounds right but not really.

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord... (Eph 2:21,22)

The prophets are part of the foundation, as are the apostles, but Christ is the axiom.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Question.Everything. Love in the Old Testament was missing greatly, it was Jesus who brought the great difference. He tells us in Matthew, on Love hangs still the Law and the Prophets. Love was missing sadly in the Old Testament, but since Jesus came He wrought the great difference, Love is of great importance, and changes many things. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[aiki]

To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In some respects, yes.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

Are you aware of just how extraordinary the "slavery" that occurred within Israel was compared to that of the pagan nations surrounding it? In fact, a close look at what is so often called "slavery" among the OT Israelites is actually not slavery at all but indentured servitude.

Genocide likely never actually happened in the OT record. We find in Scripture dramatic descriptions of Israel wiping out various antagonistic nations "man, woman and child" but then discover in other places in Scripture that these same "wiped out" peoples are still alive and well. The hyperbole in these instances was common among the battle accounts made in OT times by various nations.

When God did order His Chosen People to wage war it was always after a prolonged period of waiting - sometimes several generations in length. Israel never attacked first without cause. They never initiated bad blood between themselves and other pagan nations. And those pagan nations that did assault God's Chosen People knew that an attack on the Israelites was tantamount to an attack on their God. It was no secret among the pagan nations surrounding Israel that Israel was a theocracy. An assault upon Israel was an assault upon Israel's God. God's military response was aimed, then, at the open defiance of these pagan nations, not just toward His Chosen People, but toward Himself.

As for the "brutality, stonings and fear tactics" you write of, well, you'll have to be more specific before I can offer an answer.

As for the charge of mysogyny in the OT, consider Paul Copan's remarks in his book "Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God." He writes:

"Although Genesis 1-2 spells out the ideal of male-female equality, laws regarding women in Israel take a realistic approach to fallen human structures in the Near East. In Israel's legislation, God does two things: (1) he works within a patriarchal society to point Israel to a better path; and (2) he provides many protections and controls against abuses directed at females in admittedly substandard conditions. Do we see examples of oppressed women in the Old Testament? Yes, and we see lots of oppressed men as well! In other words, we shouldn't consider these examples endorsements of oppression and abuse." (pg. 102)

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

We can find as many characterizations of God as loving, merciful and compassionate in the OT as we do in the NT. He is as holy and just in the OT as He is in the NT. God is just as wrathful in His judgment of the wicked in the NT as He was in the OT.

Malachi 3:6
6 "For I am the Lord, I do not change..."

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Well, there is no denying that God established through Jesus Christ a new way, a new covenant with all of humanity, in the New Testament. But God's nature and His purposes are unaltered from the OT to the NT. In fact, much of what is prefigured or foreshadowed in the OT through the rituals and laws God gave the Israelites finds fulfillment in the NT. So, it isn't that the two testaments reveal two different Gods, but that they reveal God working along a continuum of human history to bring His purposes to fulfillment.

Selah.