Olam means forever

[squint]

I agree God will punish (prune/chastise) the wicked; but not forever.

God will forever punish the devil and his messengers...but I'm OK with eradication via eventual annihilation...for those powers.

But what God is doing is outlined in the verse below. Remember God is not calling the whole world now; only His firstfruit.

I will not exalt myself over my fellow man just because I happen to presently know God's Love expressed in and though Christ. ALL mankind are God's offspring. ALL of us see in part and in darkness now ALL mankind will see in FULL when we depart here.

 

[Ben12]

[/font]

God will forever punish the devil and his messengers...but I'm OK with eradication via eventual annihilation...for those powers.



I will not exalt myself over my fellow man just because I happen to presently know God's Love expressed in and though Christ. ALL mankind are God's offspring. ALL of us see in part and in darkness now ALL mankind will see in FULL when we depart here.

So often eternalhellist accuse me of ignoring scripture; when in fact I know and understand totally what God’s Word is saying. I biggest argument is faulty translations because you just cannot not have it both ways; either Jesus is a monster or He is a savior of all. His blood is much more powerful then Adam sin; He will reverse the curse.


I really do not believe in eternal punishment at all. Yes the Devil and his messenger well be thrown in Tartarus; and that will be the end of them; I just do not trust religious translators.

 

[squint]

So often eternalhellist accuse me of ignoring scripture;

Speaking factually within the mankinds understandings of facts brings problems with understanding scripture because and I think as we would agree, it's spiritually discerned.

Spiritual discernment will both defy and define facts.

I'm not accusing you as God's child of anything in regards to having any shortcomings as I believe all such (all mankind) are in that way already perfect which is a continually unfolding expansion.

But from a communications standpoint you can't blame eternal tormentists of our fellow man for seeing what they see, as eternal torment IS presented in the scriptures. Christian Universalists do a rather sub-standard, ignorant and sometimes idiotically sensational job of dealing with those particular texts. They do those scriptures no justice and no honor.

It's also rather easy for all of us as believers to accept and apply all the good scriptures for "ourselves." It is even more common for christians to not deliver the goods of scripture to others, particularly people who do not see or acknowledge Christ of the scriptures.

when in fact I know and understand totally what God’s Word is saying.

Well, that in itself is pretty out there Ben. Even the Apostle Paul admitted he only saw in part and in darkness, and he did so in acknowledgement of both our condition and the superiority of God's Words. I continue to press and to learn and to seek daily, and don't expect that will ever discontinue, now or in the next life.

I biggest argument is faulty translations because you just cannot not have it both ways; either Jesus is a monster or He is a savior of all.

That is a false construct Ben and a continuing reason why you and other christian universalists are nearly ridiculous failures in any debates.

It is possible to both have Jesus The Saviour of all mankind and even all of creation and STILL believe in and adhere to and do justice and honor to ALL the eternal damnation scriptures. Scriptures have revealed the devil and his messengers ARE due the damnation portion, and I have no issues with that whatsoever. Sin, evil and death and the purveyors of same WILL be eternally abolished. So no, it is you who cannot have it both ways. It is insane to trumpet the salvation of the devil and his messengers because there is not one single scripture in the entire text that grants those specific entities salvation.

His blood is much more powerful then Adam sin; He will reverse the curse.


I really do not believe in eternal punishment at all.

Let's use one small example where you DO already believe in eternal damnation/punishment. You cannot deny that the power of DEATH will be eternally abolished. So YOU TOO already bow there in favor of HIS LIFE.

Yes the Devil and his messenger well be thrown in Tartarus; and that will be the end of them; I just do not trust religious translators.

I do not look at those entities as anything but a temporal power of anti-life that will be discontinued. It would appear that you believe this as well, and in that light you too CAN uphold those scriptures with dignity.

I do not know the nature of what eternal punishment/damnation/destruction consists of, but I would be in the complete annihilation camp for them on this matter, as I don't believe the devil exists for eternity as God does.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Ben12]

[/SIZE]

Speaking factually within the mankinds understandings of facts brings problems with understanding scripture because and I think as we would agree, it's spiritually discerned.

Spiritual discernment will both defy and define facts.

I'm not accusing you as God's child of anything in regards to having any shortcomings as I believe all such (all mankind) are in that way already perfect which is a continually unfolding expansion.

But from a communications standpoint you can't blame eternal tormentists of our fellow man for seeing what they see, as eternal torment IS presented in the scriptures. Christian Universalists do a rather sub-standard, ignorant and sometimes idiotically sensational job of dealing with those particular texts. They do those scriptures no justice and no honor.

It's also rather easy for all of us as believers to accept and apply all the good scriptures for "ourselves." It is even more common for christians to not deliver the goods of scripture to others, particularly people who do not see or acknowledge Christ of the scriptures.



Well, that in itself is pretty out there Ben. Even the Apostle Paul admitted he only saw in part and in darkness, and he did so in acknowledgement of both our condition and the superiority of God's Words. I continue to press and to learn and to seek daily, and don't expect that will ever discontinue, now or in the next life.



That is a false construct Ben and a continuing reason why you and other christian universalists are nearly ridiculous failures in any debates.

It is possible to both have Jesus The Saviour of all mankind and even all of creation and STILL believe in and adhere to and do justice and honor to ALL the eternal damnation scriptures. Scriptures have revealed the devil and his messengers ARE due the damnation portion, and I have no issues with that whatsoever. Sin, evil and death and the purveyors of same WILL be eternally abolished. So no, it is you who cannot have it both ways. It is insane to trumpet the salvation of the devil and his messengers because there is not one single scripture in the entire text that grants those specific entities salvation.
[/COLOR]

Let's use one small example where you DO already believe in eternal damnation/punishment. You cannot deny that the power of DEATH will be eternally abolished. So YOU TOO already bow there in favor of HIS LIFE.


I do not look at those entities as anything but a temporal power of anti-life that will be discontinued. It would appear that you believe this as well, and in that light you too CAN uphold those scriptures with dignity.

I do not know the nature of what eternal punishment/damnation/destruction consists of, but I would be in the complete annihilation camp for them on this matter, as I don't believe the devil exists for eternity as God does.

enjoy!

squint

Yes I agree I am pretty much out there; and I do believe very much in spiritual discernment; words such as punishment (pruning), wrath (desire), eternal (ages) should be closely examined. I know one thing the Jesus I know would never do the terrible things these translators of religious bias have accused him of. That is why I like Acts 15;16-19 so much, the message was hidden so the bias translator missed it. Have you ever looked at Benjamin in the OT; now that is deep.

 

[squint]

Yes I agree I am pretty much out there; and I do believe very much in spiritual discernment; words such as punishment (pruning), wrath (desire), eternal (ages) should be closely examined. I know one thing the Jesus I know would never do the terrible things these translators of religious bias have accused him of.

Maybe not so much the translators, but their unseen and unknown influencers who are with them, but are NOT THEM as God's children. Anyone who knows Jesus should also know our dark influencers and admit their resistance is with us all.

And of course these positions should not only be examined, but rigorously studied and falseness dispelled. Most Christian Universalists feel the same way in the manner of disgust over the promotion of eternal conscious torment in fire for those whom Jesus has commanded us to LOVE.

That is why I like Acts 15;16-19 so much, the message was hidden so the bias translator missed it. Have you ever looked at Benjamin in the OT; now that is deep.

I spend a fair amount of time in the O.T.

When we see that mankind is not alone in the flesh and mind, we then also know "who" the Gospel is hidden from and also "why" there is so much confusion on many of these matters, and that in itself is a continuing Truth of the effectiveness and activity right here and right now of His Living Word...

enjoy!

squint

 

[Ben12]

[/FONT]

Maybe not so much the translators, but their unseen and unknown influencers who are with them, but are NOT THEM as God's children. Anyone who knows Jesus should also know our dark influencers and admit their resistance is with us all.

And of course these positions should not only be examined, but rigorously studied and falseness dispelled. Most Christian Universalists feel the same way in the manner of disgust over the promotion of eternal conscious torment in fire for those whom Jesus has commanded us to LOVE.



I spend a fair amount of time in the O.T.

When we see that mankind is not alone in the flesh and mind, we then also know "who" the Gospel is hidden from and also "why" there is so much confusion on many of these matters, and that in itself is a continuing Truth of the effectiveness and activity right here and right now of His Living Word...

enjoy!

squint

God word is spirit and life and I will add deep and awesome; this includes fire. I do not dispel fire in scripture; but I do not for a moment believe it is literal/carnal. (ESPECIALLY in The Book of Revelation (the most spiritual book in scripture). I understand fire is much more then a flame that will burn or torture as many want to believe. Fire purifies and correct; and it changes.

The stories in the OT are far more then bed time historical events to my grandchildren at bed time. God’s Word always has a hidden agenda beyond what the religious mind/carnal mind dare to comprehend. There is much more to be seen in the spiritual language of scripture and fire is just one of many spiritual deep symbolism; which I touched upon in recently in the forum I entitled “Fire in Scripture”. The confusion of God’s Word comes because men have no or very little respect for God’s Spirit with in us all; to lead and guide hen into all truth; they trust their social groups and call them the church. They do not progressive on as God spirit reveals His truth; instead they build bias, agendas and religions.