Oklo reactor

[dad]

There are some aspects of how science claims the Oklo reactions took place that might bear a fresh look.
For example.

"He explained that, after the fission process had finished, a geological shift caused the Oklo reactor to sink a few miles below the surface - where it was preserved from erosion. A few million years ago, another shift brought the uranium deposits back to the surface."

http://www.livescience.com/75-natural-nuclear-reaction-powered-ancient-geyser.html

There is not proof of such a magic elevator ride that I have yet seen.

 

[florida2]

Plate tectonics, perhaps?

 

[Gracchus]

There are some aspects of how science claims the Oklo reactions took place that might bear a fresh look.
For example.

"He explained that, after the fission process had finished, a geological shift caused the Oklo reactor to sink a few miles below the surface - where it was preserved from erosion. A few million years ago, another shift brought the uranium deposits back to the surface."

http://www.livescience.com/75-natural-nuclear-reaction-powered-ancient-geyser.html

There is not proof of such a magic elevator ride that I have yet seen.

Plate tectonics, perhaps?

Hey,dad, what evidence do you need? I thought it was a different state past, with different laws of physics. Anything could have happened.

 

[dad]

Plate tectonics, perhaps?

That happens all over. Now you need to prove that it did the magic elevator ride up and down in that particular site.

 

[dad]

Hey,dad, what evidence do you need?

How about ...any at all?

Of course any plate movements were in the former state, but is that really what you are falling back on??

 

[Gracchus]

Hey,dad, what evidence do you need? I thought it was a different state past, with different laws of physics. Anything could have happened.

How about ...any at all? Of course any plate movements were in the former state, but is that really what you are falling back on??

Just pointing out that there is more evidence for plate tectonics than there is for a "different state past".

 

[TheBear]

*subscribing (for the entertainment value )

 

[dad]

Just pointing out that there is more evidence for plate tectonics than there is for a "different state past".

Great so what you need is not evidence for plates moving but for that site being on a magic elevator ride miles under. Why squirm...we know you have none.

 

[Gracchus]

Great so what you need is not evidence for plates moving but for that site being on a magic elevator ride miles under. Why squirm...we know you have none.

Magic elevator?! The reactor was found in a mine. It wasn't ever at the surface. Water percolated down and started the reaction. When the water boiled away the reaction stopped, until more water percolated down. What sort of "elevator" did you think was involved? Plate subduction can cause deposits to be carried down. And formations can be scraped off the top of the subduction and pushed up and eroded. Folding can bury sediments and uplift can expose them to erosion. That is geology that I learned in high-school nearly sixty years ago. See for instance folded sedimentary rocks in the Himalayas. No "elevator" is involved, just formations being pushed up and down by shifting plates. We can actually watch it happening.

 

[dad]

Magic elevator?! The reactor was found in a mine. It wasn't ever at the surface.

Actually it is close enough to the surface to walk to the sites.

And formations can be scraped off the top of the subduction and pushed up and eroded. Folding can bury sediments and uplift can expose them to erosion. That is geology that I learned in high-school nearly sixty years ago. See for instance folded sedimentary rocks in the Himalayas. No "elevator" is involved, just formations being pushed up and down by shifting plates. We can actually watch it happening.

That is not relevant to this particular set of sites all getting dunked miles under the earth. You are talking generalities and we could apply that to almost anywhere on earth. You claim this exact area was pushed under and then resurfaced again when the time was right. Obviously is is pure religion. Hehe

 

[Gracchus]

Actually it is close enough to the surface to walk to the sites.

OK, my bad!

That is not relevant to this particular set of sites all getting dunked miles under the earth. You are talking generalities and we could apply that to almost anywhere on earth.

That is correct, and only a madman or a troll would demand that what is generally true must be proved in every particular case.

You claim this exact area was pushed under and then resurfaced again when the time was right.

When the time was right?! Right for what?! And, by the way, I do not make the claim, I accept the claim of the geologists who have actually been to the site and studied the formation. I have no reason to doubt them. Present evidence, and not just some nonsense fabricated to place delusions outside the bounds of sanity and rational thought, and I will reconsider.

Obviously is is pure religion. Hehe

Your point being that everyone knows what sort of moronic dementia religion is? As is so often the case, when a religious persons want to denigrate science they call it "religion". It is not true of course, but it does demonstrate that they are at least subconsciously aware that what they "believe"
is impossible nonsense.

 

[dad]

OK, my bad!

That is correct, and only a madman or a troll would demand that what is generally true must be proved in every particular case.

When the time was right?! Right for what?! And, by the way, I do not make the claim, I accept the claim of the geologists who have actually been to the site and studied the formation. I have no reason to doubt them. Present evidence, and not just some nonsense fabricated to place delusions outside the bounds of sanity and rational thought, and I will reconsider.
Your point being that everyone knows what sort of moronic dementia religion is? As is so often the case, when a religious persons want to denigrate science they call it "religion". It is not true of course, but it does demonstrate that they are at least subconsciously aware that what they "believe"
is impossible nonsense.

Truth be told, it is far more mad to accept wild baseless stories that cannot be supported. Just because geo boys visited the site before it got drowned in water, does not mean they showed us any proof the sites went on the magic elevator ride! Notice no one Google that proof and made a case here? It is a total fabrication!


I threw down the white glove and no one showed up. Hahaha

 

[Strathos]

I don't see what you're trying to prove here

 

[Gracchus]

Truth be told, it is far more mad to accept wild baseless stories that cannot be supported.

Like "a different state past"?

Just because geo boys visited the site before it got drowned in water, does not mean they showed us any proof the sites went on the magic elevator ride! Notice no one Google that proof and made a case here? It is a total fabrication!

The evidence is there if you care to examine it:

1. Kuroda, P. K. (1956). "On the Nuclear Physical Stability of the Uranium Minerals".Journal of Chemical Physics 25 (4): 781–782; 1295–1296.Bibcode:1956JChPh..25..781K. doi:10.1063/1.1743058.
2. Meshik, A. P. (November 2005). "The Workings of an Ancient Nuclear Reactor".Scientific American.
3. Gauthier-Lafaye, F.; Holliger, P.; Blanc, P.-L. (1996). "Natural fission reactors in the Franceville Basin, Gabon: a review of the conditions and results of a "critical event" in a geologic system". Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 60 (25): 4831–4852. Bibcode:1996GeCoA..60.4831G. doi:10.1016/S0016-7037(96)00245-1.
4. Davis, E. D.; Gould, C. R.; Sharapov, E. I. (2014). "Oklo reactors and implications for nuclear science". International Journal of Modern Physics E 23 (04): 1430007.arXiv:1404.4948. Bibcode:2014IJMPE..2330007D.doi:10.1142/S0218301314300070. ISSN 0218-3013.
5. Meshik, A. P. et al. (2004). "Record of Cycling Operation of the Natural Nuclear Reactor in the Oklo/Okelobondo Area in Gabon". Physical Review Letters 93 (18): 182302. Bibcode:2004PhRvL..93r2302M. doi:10.1103/PhysRevLett.93.182302.PMID 15525157.
6. De Laeter, J. R.; Rosman, K. J. R.; Smith, C. L. (1980). "The Oklo Natural Reactor: Cumulative Fission Yields and Retentivity of the Symmetric Mass Region Fission Products". Earth and Planetary Science Letters 50: 238–246.Bibcode:1980E&PSL..50..238D. doi:10.1016/0012-821X(80)90135-1.
7. Gauthier-Lafaye, F. (2002). "2 billion year old natural analogs for nuclear waste disposal: the natural nuclear fission reactors in Gabon (Africa)". Comptes Rendus Physique 3 (7–8): 839–849. Bibcode:2002CRPhy...3..839G. doi:10.1016/S1631-0705(02)01351-8.
8. New Scientist: Oklo Reactor and fine-structure value. June 30, 2004.
9. Petrov, Yu. V.; Nazarov, A. I.; Onegin, M. S.; Sakhnovsky, E. G. (2006). "Natural nuclear reactor at Oklo and variation of fundamental constants: Computation of neutronics of a fresh core". Physical Review C 74 (6): 064610. arXiv:hep-ph/0506186. Bibcode:2006PhRvC..74f4610P.doi:10.1103/PHYSREVC.74.064610.
10. Edwards, Lin (January 28, 2010), "The Moon may have formed in a nuclear explosion", PhysOrg.com (Omicron Technology Limited), retrieved 2013-08-28

No doubt you can point out their errors. Or you could go to the site yourself, and publish in one of the journals cited above.

I threw down the white glove and no one showed up. Hahaha

Yes, you are truly a legend in your own mind, where many very strange things are found.

 

[dad]

Like "a different state past"?

The evidence is there if you care to examine it:

1. Kuroda, P. K. (1956). "On the Nuclear Physical Stability of the Uranium Minerals".Journal of Chemical Physics 25 (4): 781–782; 1295–1296.Bibcode:1956JChPh..25..781K. doi:10.1063/1.1743058.
2. Meshik, A. P. (November 2005). "The Workings of an Ancient Nuclear Reactor".Scientific American.
3. Gauthier-Lafaye, F.; Holliger, P.; Blanc, P.-L. (1996). "Natural fission reactors in the Franceville Basin, Gabon: a review of the conditions and results of a "critical event" in a geologic system". Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 60 (25): 4831–4852. Bibcode:1996GeCoA..60.4831G. doi:10.1016/S0016-7037(96)00245-1.
4. Davis, E. D.; Gould, C. R.; Sharapov, E. I. (2014). "Oklo reactors and implications for nuclear science". International Journal of Modern Physics E 23 (04): 1430007.arXiv:1404.4948. Bibcode:2014IJMPE..2330007D.doi:10.1142/S0218301314300070. ISSN 0218-3013.
5. Meshik, A. P. et al. (2004). "Record of Cycling Operation of the Natural Nuclear Reactor in the Oklo/Okelobondo Area in Gabon". Physical Review Letters 93 (18): 182302. Bibcode:2004PhRvL..93r2302M. doi:10.1103/PhysRevLett.93.182302.PMID 15525157.
6. De Laeter, J. R.; Rosman, K. J. R.; Smith, C. L. (1980). "The Oklo Natural Reactor: Cumulative Fission Yields and Retentivity of the Symmetric Mass Region Fission Products". Earth and Planetary Science Letters 50: 238–246.Bibcode:1980E&PSL..50..238D. doi:10.1016/0012-821X(80)90135-1.
7. Gauthier-Lafaye, F. (2002). "2 billion year old natural analogs for nuclear waste disposal: the natural nuclear fission reactors in Gabon (Africa)". Comptes Rendus Physique 3 (7–8): 839–849. Bibcode:2002CRPhy...3..839G. doi:10.1016/S1631-0705(02)01351-8.
8. New Scientist: Oklo Reactor and fine-structure value. June 30, 2004.
9. Petrov, Yu. V.; Nazarov, A. I.; Onegin, M. S.; Sakhnovsky, E. G. (2006). "Natural nuclear reactor at Oklo and variation of fundamental constants: Computation of neutronics of a fresh core". Physical Review C 74 (6): 064610. arXiv:hep-ph/0506186. Bibcode:2006PhRvC..74f4610P.doi:10.1103/PHYSREVC.74.064610.
10. Edwards, Lin (January 28, 2010), "The Moon may have formed in a nuclear explosion", PhysOrg.com (Omicron Technology Limited), retrieved 2013-08-28

No doubt you can point out their errors. Or you could go to the site yourself, and publish in one of the journals cited above.
Yes, you are truly a legend in your own mind, where many very strange things are found.

Show us something in your links that addresses the issue?

 

[dad]

I don't see what you're trying to prove here

That Oklo is not gospel after all.

 

[Strathos]

Gospel for what?

 

[Gracchus]

Show us something in your links that addresses the issue?

You demand evidence. I, and others, trot out pages of evidence and argument. And you ignore it all, post no rebuttal except, "No! Different state past!".
Mr. Dangerfield, you get no respect. We're done.

 

[dad]

You demand evidence. I, and others, trot out pages of evidence and argument. And you ignore it all, post no rebuttal except, "No! Different state past!".
Mr. Dangerfield, you get no respect. We're done.

I actually never even mentioned any state yet. You haven't got that far. You never passed the level of supporting your own claim about the big dunking of the sites and then the magic resurfacing on cue. I looked at the first link you spammed, of course there was nothing about this issue. In the future try to address the issue and use any links for support. Don't spam a bunch of links as if you had some case. Last chance, if you want to post something in your own words on topic, and use links for support, then get to it.

I can't rebut what you have not even addressed.

 

[dad]

Gospel for what?

In other words the Oklo whopper fable is utter rubbish. You cannot support the story. I opened up the issue here by discussing the claimed miles deep dunk and supposed resurfacing of the sites at Oklo.