Oklahoma orders first shipment of Bibles for use in public school classrooms

[RileyG]

Teaching the Bible as literature in public schools is allowed under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Although the Supreme Court ruled that students could not be forced to study the Bible for religious purposes, they are allowed to study the Bible as they would literature in order to understand its influence, language, and artistic legacy. This study must be strictly academic, not devotional. Teaching the Bible "as literature" does not imply that the Bible is not factual. This description merely indicates that selections from the Bible will be studied as any other text would be in an English course.

Will be interesting to see how it is incorporated (taught) ... no doubt it will be challenged.

Religion most certainly does drive world views to a high degree and those vary ... so teaching the differences of those views is important to know because it most definitely affects what is going on in the world. It does and has impact(s) a lot of what goes on in the world.

How this may be done without weighing the beliefs one way or another remains to be seen ... that is ... not teaching a particular bias one way or another.

The creation/verses evolution beliefs will come into play as well.

Religion spans a wide range of topics .... no doubt it is a difficult challenge to teach without a bias one way or another.

We will see I guess.

Thanks for the info

 

[dogs4thewin]

Please answer my question. What is more important. Not within the context of secular society but in general. Seperation of Church and state or the bible. Stop avoiding please

look, I am no longer interested in going back and forth I feel I have answere your question.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

look, I am no longer interested in going back and forth I feel I have answere your question.

You haven't. But I would find it concerning if you did value the seperation of Church and state above the bible.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

More than 500 Bibles have been purchased for use in Advanced Placement (AP) Government classrooms across the state of Oklahoma.

The move marks the first purchase of Bibles specifically intended for use as an "academic and literary resource" in U.S. public schools and is a key part of a broader initiative aimed at providing Bibles to every classroom in Oklahoma, according to State Superintendent Ryan Walters.

The Bible purchase, which will be distributed specifically to AP Government classrooms, is part of a push to purchase55,000 King James Version Bibles with the United States Pledge of Allegiance, the U.S. Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights documents included.

Continued below.

Oklahoma orders first shipment of Bibles for use in public school classrooms

More than 500 Bibles have been purchased for use in Advanced Placement AP Government classrooms across the state of Oklahoma

www.christianpost.com

This is perfectly legal- if uncommon. The Bible can be used as a resource, as any other book. It cannot be used to proselytize in public schools. That is the legal limitation.

 

[seeking.IAM]

So schools shouldn't teach values and worldviews?

Teaching a multiplicity of religions is teaching worldviews. Teaching just one (take your pick which) is indoctrination.

Schools should teach reading, math, sciences, history, language, business, personal finance, trades, government, economics, etc. Please leave teaching values to me and my church.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Teaching a multiplicity of religions is teaching worldviews. Teaching just one (take your pick which) is indoctrination.

Schools should teach reading, math, sciences, history, language, business, personal finance, trades, government, economics, etc. Please leave teaching values to me and my church.

They should teach government in what way? How do you not teach values in English? Only read instruction books for grammar?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Teaching a multiplicity of religions is teaching worldviews. Teaching just one (take your pick which) is indoctrination.

Schools should teach reading, math, sciences, history, language, business, personal finance, trades, government, economics, etc. Please leave teaching values to me and my church.

The thing is, civic education can many times carry with it a certain subset of values; and in addition to this, the usual public school curriculum can employ a "hidden curriculum" within its layout and application.

So, unfortunately, there really is no such thing as a public education without some mediated and inherent set of "values." The act of educating and learning requires values, even if those values may seem to be of a minimal kind.

 

[seeking.IAM]

They should teach government in what way?

In many (most?) states in the United States a course in government is a graduation requirement. It teaches the functioning of government, the constitution, the Bill of Rights, checks and balances of our three branches - executive, legislative, and judicial. How things become law. And separation of church and state -- or leastwise it used to back when we honored that founding principle.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

In many (most?) states in the United States a course in government is a graduation requirement. It teaches the functioning of government, the constitution, the Bill of Rights, checks and balances of our three branches - executive, legislative, and judicial. How things become law. And separation of church and state -- or leastwise it used to back when we honored that founding principle.

So this is taught as a matter of dispassionate fact free of value? That the US system isn't any more special than any other government?

Do you believe school curriculum should be purged of any religious material?

Since you believe in value free education do you believe things like truth and integrity or effort should not be taught or inculcate in public education?

 

[seeking.IAM]

So this is taught as a matter of dispassionate fact free of value?

In my day, it was taught dispassionately from personal bias. Obviously, there are certain values embedded in the founding of our country and our foundational documents. These were taught, such as:

• all men are created equal
• ...with certain inalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
• equal protection under the law
• freedom of speech
• freedom of religion
• a free press
• the right to peaceful assembly

That the US system isn't any more special than any other government?

I was not taught this. I do not believe this. Granted, American Exceptionalism is a problematic belief in this country as an outgrowth of our own arrogance and pride -- all in my opinion of course.

Do you believe school curriculum should be purged of any religious material?

No. I believe one religion should not be given priority over another. Prioritizing one religion is all well and good as long as it is your religion being prioritized. When it is the other fellow's religion being promoted it is not so swell of an idea anymore. Laws need to be written for eventualities, not just in-the-moment. A study in comparative religions would be fine with me. I had such a course in college, but there was no "this one is good, these ones are bad." I learned things I did not know. I went in a Christian and came out a Christian. Learning about others didn't ruin me.

Since you believe in value free education do you believe things like truth and integrity or effort should not be taught or inculcate in public education?

I don't believe I said anything about whether I value free education. Teaching "truth" is rather difficult, because truth is relative. Integrity and effort are easier to define and teach I think. Case in point about truth, I was helping one of my children prepare for an exam that covered the Viet Nam war. What was being taught was absolutely revisionist history garbage. Having lived through it, I told my child to answer on the test what the teacher taught, but then I said, "Let me tell you what really happened." Right now there is a movement to soften teaching of our racist past. Is that truth?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

In my day, it was taught dispassionately from personal bias. Obviously, there are certain values embedded in the founding of our country and our foundational documents. These were taught, such as:

• all men are created equal
• ...with certain inalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
• equal protection under the law
• freedom of speech
• freedom of religion
• a free press
• the right to peaceful assembly

I was not taught this. I do not believe this. Granted, American Exceptionalism is a problematic belief in this country as an outgrowth of our own arrogance and pride -- all in my opinion of course.


No. I believe one religion should not be given priority over another. Prioritizing one religion is all well and good as long as it is your religion being prioritized. When it is the other fellow's religion being promoted it is not so swell of an idea anymore. Laws need to be written for eventualities, not just in-the-moment. A study in comparative religions would be fine with me. I had such a course in college, but there was no "this one is good, these ones are bad." I learned things I did not know. I went in a Christian and came out a Christian. Learning about others didn't ruin me.

I don't believe I said anything about whether I value free education. Teaching "truth" is rather difficult, because truth is relative. Integrity and effort are easier to define and teach I think. Case in point about truth, I was helping one of my children prepare for an exam that covered the Viet Nam war. What was being taught was absolutely revisionist history garbage. Having lived through it, I told my child to answer on the test what the teacher taught, but then I said, "Let me tell you what really happened." Right now there is a movement to soften teaching of our racist past. Is that truth?

So you believe in values being taught. Just not Christian values. I mean you're allowed to believe in the superiority of secularism and irreligion.

But in the end we are both okay with the state teaching our values. Your values just happen to be entirely devoid of Christian principles.

 

[jas3]

But I would find it concerning if you did value the seperation of Church and state above the bible.

American secular schools drill into students that "separation of church and state" is an unqualified good, so it's not surprising to see "because separation of church and state" offered as a reason against using the Bible in schools. Honestly I would be surprised if most Americans knew that the phrase isn't in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.

 

[zippy2006]

American secular schools drill into students that "separation of church and state" is an unqualified good, so it's not surprising to see "because separation of church and state" offered as a reason against using the Bible in schools. Honestly I would be surprised if most Americans knew that the phrase isn't in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.

Yep. It's a little bit crazy that the Bible is so seldom taught in U.S. schools. Its historical and cultural significance is unparalleled, by far, in the West. Good for Oklahoma.

 

[RileyG]

Teaching the Bible as literature in public schools is allowed under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Although the Supreme Court ruled that students could not be forced to study the Bible for religious purposes, they are allowed to study the Bible as they would literature in order to understand its influence, language, and artistic legacy. This study must be strictly academic, not devotional. Teaching the Bible "as literature" does not imply that the Bible is not factual. This description merely indicates that selections from the Bible will be studied as any other text would be in an English course.

Will be interesting to see how it is incorporated (taught) ... no doubt it will be challenged.

Religion most certainly does drive world views to a high degree and those vary ... so teaching the differences of those views is important to know because it most definitely affects what is going on in the world. It does and has impact(s) a lot of what goes on in the world.

How this may be done without weighing the beliefs one way or another remains to be seen ... that is ... not teaching a particular bias one way or another.

The creation/verses evolution beliefs will come into play as well.

Religion spans a wide range of topics .... no doubt it is a difficult challenge to teach without a bias one way or another.

We will see I guess.

They would obviously have to pick which books they have to teach. It wouldn't be possible to teach the entire Bible in a short school year

 

[RileyG]

Does the secular state mandate a curriculum of certain texts? Like the US constitution? Why should the bible be verboten?

the Bible is sacred scripture which Christians consider inspired. Many non-Christians might find the Bible offensive....for whatever reason.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

the Bible is sacred scripture which Christians consider inspired. Many non-Christians might find the Bible offensive....for whatever reason.

Why does the bible being offensive to others matter?

 

[jas3]

Yep. It's a little bit crazy that the Bible is so seldom taught in U.S. schools. Its historical and cultural significance is unparalleled, by far, in the West. Good for Oklahoma.

Indeed. I had one brave English teacher in high school who had us pick a psalm for an assignment, which was followed by protests from the couple of belligerent atheist students in the class. Fortunately, their protests fell on deaf ears wherever they took them.

 

[Tom8907]

This will end poorly both the left and the right in the future will misuse these Bibles and Christianity will no longer be intriguing to seekers who are in school.

 

[RileyG]

Why does the bible being offensive to others matter?

It doesn't. Some people find excuses to be offended. If I'm making any sense. An atheist might offended by the Bible because it says Jesus is the Son of God, the only way to heaven.

 

[okay]

American secular schools drill into students that "separation of church and state" is an unqualified good, so it's not surprising to see "because separation of church and state" offered as a reason against using the Bible in schools. Honestly I would be surprised if most Americans knew that the phrase isn't in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.

Of course, in the constitution we have the 1st amendment that includes the establishment clause. I would hope most Americans know that, but we would need to see data to know for sure. I am often surprised by how little many of us know... The 'separation of church and state' phrase isn't completely irrelevant, though, as it was written by Jefferson in a letter to Baptists who were concerned about their religious freedom in Rhode Island. It sheds a little light on what one of the framers intended by the amendment.

I live in Massachusetts where we have an ugly history of a 'Christian' government persecuting other Christians. The Puritans who controlled the state even executed a few people 'guilty' of being Quakers. I'll take separation of church and state thank you.