Oklahoma orders first shipment of Bibles for use in public school classrooms

[dogs4thewin]

So they should be required to learn about it but not read the text? Can you explain how they learn about the constitution without access to the text?

Do you believe it is good to inculcate the values of the text in children?

I learn about a lot of things that does not mean that I read every word pf every document from which I learn.

I believe that it is important to teach children about values yes.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I learn about a lot of things that does not mean that I read every word pf every document from which I learn.

But you have no problem with schools forcing students to learn about your secular constitution in the curriculum right?

I believe that it is important to teach children about values yes.

You believe it is important for public schools to inculcate the values of the American constitution?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Many, if not most, public schools here require students to take a Government class and a U.S. History class through which the essential civic principles of the Bill of Rights are taught and instilled.

Are these values superior to Christian or Biblical values?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Are these values superior to Christian or Biblical values?

Or course not. Additionally, I'm not against the Bible being present in public schools. Nor do I advocate for the modern, secularized interpretation of "separation of church and state."

I know. You're probably surprised to hear that sort of thing coming from me.

 

[dogs4thewin]

But you have no problem with schools forcing students to learn about your secular constitution in the curriculum right?

You believe it is important for public schools to inculcate the values of the American constitution?

yes I have no issue with forcig children to learn about such things as the branches of government and issues related to civil rights.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

yes I have no issue with forcig children to learn about such things as the branches of government and issues related to civil rights.

But you have an issue with forcing children to learn about the bible? Do you consider American civic values as more valuable than Christian or biblical values?

 

[dogs4thewin]

But you have an issue with forcing children to learn about the bible? Do you consider American civic values as more valuable than Christian or biblical values?

In terms of overnment schools you coud say that we have seperation of CHURCH and STATE for a reason.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

In terms of overnment schools you coud say that we have seperation of CHURCH and STATE for a reason.

You didn't answer my question. Which is more valuable.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You didn't answer my question. Which is more valuable.

The Bible is more valueable but should NOT be required reading in government schools because of the IMPORTANCE of seperation of church and state.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The Bible is more valueable but should NOT be required reading in government schools because of the IMPORTANCE of seperation of church and state.

So the seperation of Church and state is more important than the bible?

 

[seeking.IAM]

More than 500 Bibles have been purchased for use in Advanced Placement (AP) Government classrooms across the state of Oklahoma.

Let them place the Bible in the school library next to the Koran and the Torah. I am okay with its availability as a resource, not as prescribed classroom instruction.

I find first attaching it to AP Government classes as especially curious. I reckon they decided to not waste their time on kids who weren't on the advanced placement college-credit track. Probably want to ward off the corrupting influences of the liberal colleges the really smart kids might go to next year.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Let them place the Bible in the school library next to the Koran and the Torah. I am okay with its availability as a resource, not as prescribed classroom instruction.

Are all these texts equal?

 

[dogs4thewin]

So the seperation of Church and state is more important than the bible?

Yes seperation of church and state is very important in a secular soceity an as I have stated many times in this fallen world that has been proven to work better ( particularly on a large scale than a relgious based government.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Let them place the Bible in the school library next to the Koran and the Torah.

Are all these texts equal?

It depends upon what you mean as equal. They are equal in the sense that all three represent major religions about which one might want to learn. Schools are supposed to be places of learning. They are not equal from the perspective of my personal religious belief (You know, like the one I teach my children about at home and church).

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yes seperation of church and state is very important in a secular soceity an as I have stated many times in this fallen world that has been proven to work better ( particularly on a large scale than a relgious based government.

You're avoiding my question. Is the seperation of Church more important than the bible?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It depends upon what you mean as equal. They are equal in the sense that all three represent major religions about which one might want to learn. Schools are supposed to be places of learning. They are not equal from the perspective of my personal religious belief (You know, like the one I teach my children about at home and church).

So schools shouldn't teach values and worldviews?

 

[dogs4thewin]

You're avoiding my question. Is the seperation of Church more important than the bible?

I thought I did the Bible is important, but has no place as required reading in publc school if you want to take that as seperation of church and state being more important than the Bible then so be it.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I thought I did the Bible is important, but has no place as required reading in publc school if you want to take that as seperation of church and state being more important than the Bible then so be it.

Please answer my question. What is more important. Not within the context of secular society but in general. Seperation of Church and state or the bible. Stop avoiding please

 

[eleos1954]

I’m not ok with this to be honest. Separation of Church and state.

Teaching the Bible as literature in public schools is allowed under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Although the Supreme Court ruled that students could not be forced to study the Bible for religious purposes, they are allowed to study the Bible as they would literature in order to understand its influence, language, and artistic legacy. This study must be strictly academic, not devotional. Teaching the Bible "as literature" does not imply that the Bible is not factual. This description merely indicates that selections from the Bible will be studied as any other text would be in an English course.

Will be interesting to see how it is incorporated (taught) ... no doubt it will be challenged.

Religion most certainly does drive world views to a high degree and those vary ... so teaching the differences of those views is important to know because it most definitely affects what is going on in the world. It does and has impact(s) a lot of what goes on in the world.

How this may be done without weighing the beliefs one way or another remains to be seen ... that is ... not teaching a particular bias one way or another.

The creation/verses evolution beliefs will come into play as well.

Religion spans a wide range of topics .... no doubt it is a difficult challenge to teach without a bias one way or another.

We will see I guess.

 

[okay]

As a Christian I would not want the state teaching my child the bible in general. There are just so many questions and potential pitfalls. I would think my children may end up with a warped view of scripture and God. I would rather teach them myself and select the church where they are taught. I want some control over that, as it is the most important stuff they will learn.

I do think it is possible to use the bible in public schools in the US in a way that is constitutional, but it would require a well designed curriculum. Given how OK is a serious contender for having the worst education system in the US, I doubt they will have any reasonable plan for how to use these bibles. The largest districts will probably refuse to use them in any case - at least that was what they were saying about the original plan to order 55,000 Trump bibles.

Folks that want to completely get rid of church-state separation in the US should pursue it the correct way - through a constitutional amendment. I wish they would just be honest about that just go that route as it feels more above-board.