Official CF thread discussing Satanism

[TrueQ]

Well presumably you consider vices things to be stamped out and removed, whereas the virtues should be raised up and possessed by everyone?

In my eyes, It's important to have a balance of both. Having to much of a vice and not enough of it's corresponding virtue is not desirable, and likewise to the opposite. For example, without my wonderful pride, something would be missing every time I won at cards. Let's face it, beating your equals (or betters) in a fair game is a great rush, and certainly nothing to be ashamed of. However, without humility, I wouldn't be a very graceful loser, not at all, I would be accusing everyone of cheating, demanding do-overs, and generally being rude. Eventually, no one would even sit down for a friendly hand with me.

Let's do another one. Sloth, without sloth I would be a very tense person, if I were simply full of zeal, I would feel compelled to take up every cause that passed my way. It wouldn't take to long before I was so caught up in doing things that I would never have any time for myself, wouldn't be able to relax, read, or even stop to watch sunrises, rainbows, flowers, and such. However, without zeal things I could genuinely get into would pass me right on by, I wouldn't cook, so I wouldn't be able to enjoy the fine foods down in the fridge. I would never go out with friends, so I wouldn't have any of the grand memories I do. I would never even have gotten into writing, so you wouldn't be able to appreciate my fine company (Excess of pride, which humility begs your pardon for.).

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

Ah but you see, each vice keeps themselves in check. Pride in oneself would prevent excessive laziness; lust preventing excessive gluttony through ones figure and so on, also linked to pride in ones appearance. Virtues and vices don't really exist.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Ah but you see, each vice keeps themselves in check. Pride in oneself would prevent excessive laziness; lust preventing excessive gluttony through ones figure and so on, also linked to pride in ones appearance. Virtues and vices don't really exist.

In a sense, you are correct. Vice is the perversion of that which is good, so much so that it destroys a person and those around him. The person is so enamored with themself that they can't see, or do not care about the harm they are causing. That is the definition of evil.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I guess that I am just trying to see what the difference is between what you believe and what christianity teaches, Isis; because at this point, I don't see the difference, other than the name.

You say that there are no vices, and the natural drives would keep eachother in check. You say that the natural drives are not sinful, and I have to say that the Bible agrees:

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

You say that you agree that excess is wrong, and don't seem to advocate over indulgence. Christianity should not induce guilt on a person, it should set them free. I know that there are some that would bind people to a yoke of slavery, but this misrepresents christianity, as Christ's own words attest:

Matthew 11:28-30
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
[size=-1]"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
[size=-1]"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
[/size][/size]

I am just wondering if you can see any difference between what you are advocating, and what christianiy really teaches?

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

You speak of evil. It doesn't exist. Neither goes good. They are relative. Also, going back to something that you said, over indulgence is a choice that the individual should make.

 

[TrueQ]

Lol, it would seem a lot Christians either missed that quote, or took it in it's full context. Which is, essentially, 'Nothing is unclean unless God says so.'

Romans, 14:10, "But why dost thou judge thy brother? Or why dost thou set at nought thy broher? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

The line you are quoting doesn't say, nothing is unclean, there is no sin, as the Satanists believe, it says, don't argue about what is or is not sin, for Jesus has already explained it.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Lol, it would seem a lot Christians either missed that quote, or took it in it's full context. Which is, essentially, 'Nothing is unclean unless God says so.'

Romans, 14:10, "But why dost thou judge thy brother? Or why dost thou set at nought thy broher? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

The line you are quoting doesn't say, nothing is unclean, there is no sin, as the Satanists believe, it says, don't argue about what is or is not sin, for Jesus has already explained it.

I didn't say that there is no sin, rather that the seven deadly sins are the perversion of natural and good drives. Satanists seem to think that christianity teaches an all or nothing mentality; like chirstianity is anti-pleasure or no fun. This is not true. I experience all of the pleasures of life, yet without sin. There is no reason to sin, it gives me no added benefit over what I currently enjoy.
The wanton persuit of pleasure leads invariably to misery. The persuit of contentment leads to peace and ultimately to great joy.

 

[light-bringer]

I thought Jesus died for all our sins

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I thought Jesus died for all our sins

yeah, what's your point

 

[Fuzzy]

Which, if he did, should absolve me of the apparent sin of not believing in his divinity.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The age old question............is Christ's atonement sufficient to pay for the sin of unbelief. Answer, yes

Can it efficiently do so? Answer, unknown.


No one knows the final condition of any soul, save for God. Perhaps He will forgive your unbelief, perhaps not. I am not going to presume to know what God has in store for you, but your current course is not recommended, unless you are actively searching for God, but have not found Him yet

Some christians will say that there is none that seeks after God, while this maybe true, that does not mean that God will not seek after anyone. He is the good shepherd that leaves the good sheep at home, and goes after the one lost sheep.

Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the LORD,
"Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

 

[Fuzzy]

So, the possibility exists that I'm forgiven, even though I don't recognize that authority
to forgive.

Then why prostelytize? Why preach the Christian word? And at what point do
Christians stop trying to "convert the heathen?" Martyrdom? Being threatened with
a call to the police? When the door closes? Is there a code word I can use?

I'm just kidding on that last one.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

So, the possibility exists that I'm forgiven, even though I don't recognize that authority
to forgive.

Then why prostelytize? Why preach the Christian word? And at what point do
Christians stop trying to "convert the heathen?" Martyrdom? Being threatened with
a call to the police? When the door closes? Is there a code word I can use?

I'm just kidding on that last one.

The code word is "imnotinterested" a christian is called to proclaim the Gospel, not jam it down peoples throats. Your conscience should be free. This is backed up by the Catholic document,: [size=+1]DIGNITATIS HUMANAE
Declaration on Religious Freedom

[/size]

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

I didn't say that there is no sin, rather that the seven deadly sins are the perversion of natural and good drives.

Actually, the seven deadly sins are quite human things. 'Good' is only relative, therefore none of humanity's 'natural' behaviour can be described so without being placed into the context of a religious or cultural background which believes that behaviour as 'good'. It is a natural thing to envy somebody else; the seven deadly 'sins' are part of humanity's natural behaviour. I'm not advocating excessive indulgence in any of these so called 'sins' because that is up to the individual, not me, to decide. These 'sins' are not a perversion of humanity's natural behaviour, they are it. Human's act as they were 'designed' to do (whether that be through evolution or creation of some kind). If it weren't natural to envy, or to lust, or to be gluttonous, then we wouldn't act like it.

 

[Lifesaver]

There are two kinds of unbelief. One is a sin, the other is not.
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/301001.htm

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Actually, the seven deadly sins are quite human things. 'Good' is only relative, therefore none of humanity's 'natural' behaviour can be described so without being placed into the context of a religious or cultural background which believes that behaviour as 'good'. It is a natural thing to envy somebody else; the seven deadly 'sins' are part of humanity's natural behaviour. I'm not advocating excessive indulgence in any of these so called 'sins' because that is up to the individual, not me, to decide. These 'sins' are not a perversion of humanity's natural behaviour, they are it. Human's act as they were 'designed' to do (whether that be through evolution or creation of some kind). If it weren't natural to envy, or to lust, or to be gluttonous, then we wouldn't act like it.

Humans are also given the ability to think; we are not brute beasts that act only on instinct. We have the abiltiy to forsee the consequences of a course of action, or to take the advice of another that has been there.

Envy is the most useless of all the seven deadly sins, as it accomplishes nothing, but the destruction of the person that is envious. Envy can't change anything; another person has something that I don't, so what?

I could aspire to duplicate the other person's good fortune for myself, and that would be acceptable. Ambition is a good drive that pushes someone on to great things. We set out to do something, count up the cost, and see if it is attainable, if it is, then fine, if not we move on.

Envy does not move on. It becomes stuck in trying to justify why a person is deserving and another not. This wastes time and effort that could be used for better things, and robs all joy from life; envy is a deadly sin because it is destructive, not because it is fun and God doesn't want you to have fun.

The other deadly sins can all be shown to carry the same destructive properities. Our natural way may be to follow the deadly sins, but it does not have to be thay way. There is more to life than misery.

 

[TrueQ]

Have you ever envied something so much you were spurred to attain it? The triumph, the glory, even if it does fade after a week or two, are well worth the sins incurred. In my opinion anyway. What if you envy something a little more less mundane than a car or a fancy necklace. One of the driving forces behind all of my philosophical studies has been my envy of intelligence and skill of those who have obtained mastery over philosophy.

Humans are more than mindless beasts, we are clever, strong, and willful beings, entities, that have the genuine capability to improve and enlighten ourselves. Nevertheless, we are, at our most basic level, animals, and we can never change that, nor should we even attempt to. Close one of your eyes and feel it fight to open, go outside with some friends and watch as you flock and herd, approach some scary looking street guys and you'll instinctively bunch together, go into a park and you'll instictively spread out. We're animals, and sometimes it is important to act like them.

I'm not saying anything bad about the search for enlightenment, which I have a huge regard for, but I've always believed that all of the great intellectual and cultural acheivements of human kind have come from our animal instincts. Biggest example, we have an innate need to explore our surroundings and hunt down more favorable living spaces, a few million years later, space travel.

 

[Babyee_Bliss]

It's easy to control what you do but hard to control what you feel. Anger is listed as one of the 7 deadly sins, it is not evil it's natural. Lust is as well, celebrity crushes and crushes among others that you know is normal. You can control how you react to your feelings but you can't control what you'll feel.

-Babyee_Bliss

 

[light-bringer]

Envy and Lust are my favorites

 

[Babyee_Bliss]

Envy and Lust are my favorites

Me too, especially lust.