Obsessing over Hebrews 6:4-6 & 10:26-27

[Billy93]

Hi,

I posted this over in the advice forum as well, but found this place and thought it might be good to post here as well (as I’ve been dealing with OCD since high school). I don’t quite know where to begin, but for the last few days I’ve been feeling awful/terrified and I am more in-doubt than ever as to my salvation/the state of my soul. I apologize in advance for the length - I know it’s VERY long and I don’t blame you if you don’t read it all.

TL;DR I was raised in a Christian family, got to college/grad school and entered a very sinful lifestyle. Last year I started changing and taking my faith way more seriously than ever before. Does Hebrews say it’s too late for me to repent? Am I doomed to hell? :/

(Part 1)

Some backstory about me: At the time of writing this, I’m a 27-year-old guy. Growing up, I was raised in a Christian (Baptist) family, and we went to church every week. I “asked the Lord Jesus into my heart”/“got saved” sometime in elementary school; don’t remember the exact year but I remember praying privately and then going and telling my family about it later. For most of middle/high school I outwardly probably seemed a good Christian boy (and I attended a Christian private school), but I didn’t much enjoy going to church, and I got involved in watching inappropriate contentography (including some gay inappropriate content - so I had some struggles with orientation). And then I wound up fooling around some sexually with my high school girlfriend - though she was a Christian too and we both wanted to save “actual sex” for marriage, so we somehow managed to not go all-the-way in our 3-year relationship.

I also began to struggle with OCD/anxiety (which I still deal with some and is perhaps relevant to my freaking out?), and was convinced at the time that my obsessive thoughts were some sort of demonic attack. ...Though it didn’t really lead me to get closer to God. I did get baptized (on the beach on Easter Sunday; was a cool experience) when I was 16 or so - and while I did “believe,” honestly I’m ashamed to say that part of the impetus for me to do it was that my girlfriend did it the year prior, and I felt like an inferior Christian to her because she had been baptized and I hadn’t.

Aside from saying evening prayers every night with my parents when I was a little kid, and silently praying along when my dad would bless the food during family dinnertime all my life, I really didn’t pray all that much. Didn’t regularly read my Bible either. Basically, I don’t think I really had a whole lot going on spiritually. And that’s probably why it all came tumbling down when I went away to college up north, out-of-state.

My first year of college I was pretty much the same, and at my parents’ urging I did try to attend a church as well as the school’s InterVarsity group. But I wasn’t exactly consistent in going, and by sophomore year I stopped altogether as I got involved with a new girlfriend. This girl was agnostic/practically-atheist (bad decision to even date her), and for some crazy reason I was convinced that because I had fallen head-over-heels for her, she must be “the one.”

After only about a month of dating her, I lost my virginity to her. I had wanted to wait for marriage, but I was so deluded into thinking she was “the one” and furthermore was devastated to learn that she had only just lost her virginity to a fellow student who she dated in the few months before dating me - so I was intensely jealous of him getting to know her in that way, and it led to me easily giving in. I did feel guilty for doing it, and knew there was no putting that genie back in the bottle - I felt like I was lost and there was no hope for me anymore, and that it didn’t really matter anymore what I did since I had messed up so badly. This was the major reason I stopped going to church at all.

Over the next year-and-a-half, she basically lived in my dorm room with me. I was completely living a life of sin, and I knew I no longer fit in with Christians. However, I didn’t actively renounce God or stop believing in him - in fact, one of the biggest sources of contention between she and I was our disagreements over religion (as she was agnostic). We would debate over it, and the few occasions on which I did pray, I prayed that she would see the light and realize that God was real.

The relationship ended with a sudden break-up, and I was devastated - since again, I had thought we were meant to be together, and had used that as my excuse for all the sex. “I know it’s wrong, but we’re going to end up getting married anyways so it can’t be that bad.” (What a lie!) Again though, I felt that I was too far-gone, and spiraled into a deep depression.

I foolishly decided that I might as well give in even further, and explore my sexuality curiosity that had been tempting me on and off since middle/high school. So I downloaded a gay hookup app, and impulsively wound up walking to a local hotel at 2am one night to fool around sexually with a man. (Looking back, that was obviously extremely dangerous.) Of course I felt even more guilt from having done this, and told myself that I had no desire to ever do it again. I felt absolutely disgusted with myself.

About a year later, I started grad school in NYC. Basically, long-story-short(er), over the course of the next few years in grad school and afterwards, I had a couple friends-with-benefits-turned-relationships (one of which again involved a live-in girlfriend, for my first 4 or so months living in the city), a couple basically-one-night-stands with women, and a handful more experiences with men (never “all the way” but enough).

These gay hookups always happened the same: I would download the app very late at night, find someone (thank God I often *didn’t* find someone) willing to meet up to have some fun, and then either they would come over or I would walk ~10 min away to their place. On each occasion, I felt *extreme* guilt afterwards (and in the case of the couple times in which I walked to their place, I had this awful feeling in the pit of my stomach the whole walk, and almost turned around and went home - I should have). There was one occasion when I got up and left (said I had to go home) shortly after getting there, just because I felt *so* terrible about what I was doing. A few times, I broke down crying as I walked home afterwards. After each occasion, I would delete the app and tell myself I wouldn’t do it again. …That obviously didn’t last, as I would eventually re-download the app and do it all over again.

It was a cycle of self-destruction. I kept screwing up, and I was so sick of myself. I tried to tell myself it was okay, and even tried to find excuses online for my lifestyle & behavior (like super-Progressive sites that said homosexuality was actually okay for this or that reason - which is ironic since I’m very conservative). But these excuses never sat right with me, because I knew in my heart that they contradicted the Bible.

In early 2019, I met a Christian girl in NYC. She was unlike any girl I had ever dated. Was extremely serious about Christ and her faith, and for the first time in ages I found myself actively thinking about God, praying to him, etc. We dated for a month-and-a-half, even wound up doing devotionals together. We both seemed to think we were “meant to be,” but it ended up falling apart for reasons which I will not get into in this post (another long story).

But in that month-and-a-half, I experienced for the first time in my life the feeling of what it would be like to be with a true believer who was on fire for God. And it was unlike anything I had ever experienced, and it was addicting. She had a bit of a dark past herself (in a different way), but you never would have guessed from talking to her; she just seemed radiant, as though you could tell Christ/the Holy Spirit were with her. What’s more, she forgave and looked past my own past sins and faults, and she wasn’t bothered by them even though I had obviously messed up *a lot*. I didn’t feel I deserved someone like her.

Well, when it ended I was extremely heartbroken (ironically even more than I was for the girl who I dated for a year-and-a-half who I lost my virginity to - and yet this girl and I didn’t even hold hands/kiss!), and I felt like I could never find someone like her again. But then I got to thinking, and wondered if maybe this was God trying to bring me back to him - showing me the joy that I could have if only I would give myself to him, and make *him* the focus of my relationships (and my life!). Because up to that point, he was nowhere to be found in my relationships. While I never outright denied the faith, I had pushed him out of my life time and time again, in as many ways possible.

So I felt like in a sense maybe he was saying “See what you can have if you put me first and rely on me? Life with me is better than anything you can find on your own, looking elsewhere.” It was a tough lesson, and admittedly there was some time I spent being mad at God for taking her away; I felt like he was trolling me by even bringing her into my life. I even wound up slipping up sexually again a couple times, to try and “forget” her. That didn’t work, and only made me feel immense guilt.

For example, shortly after the break-up, I had a dumb one-night-stand. It was my first time actually having sex in 3 years, and the girl texted me later saying that she would love to come over again sometime - out of guilt and a horrible pit-of-my-stomach feeling, I told her no, and deleted her number. I just didn’t want to get sucked into it all again. Nothing I could try and do/find on my own would ever measure up to that month-and-a-half of a (sexless!) God-centered relationship which I had gotten a taste of. It felt like seeking after anything else on my own was totally worthless - because it was.

 

[Billy93]

(Part 2)

Anyways, then 2020 came around. It’s funny; at the beginning of the year, I had actually just begun finally actively attending a church up there which I really liked. First time in ages. But then, COVID hit, and it basically destroyed my industry (performing arts). It made living in NYC virtually impossible due to the super-high rent, so I moved back down south to live with my parents and younger brother.

I’m not sure what exactly did it for me, but 2020 was a huge eye-opener and wake-up call for me. In summer/fall, I started praying much more than I can remember ever before, and started reading my Bible again. Since late July/early August, I have been reading the Bible & praying every day. What’s more, I’ve found myself *enjoying* reading the Bible - a lot! - something I don’t think I had ever really felt before. Some nights, I wanted to keep reading and reading. So much of what I’ve read has moved me deeply, and some nights I even found myself sobbing at passages and verses.

I’ve prayed on numerous occasions asking God to change me, to give me more faith, to mold me into who he wants me to be (to make me look more like his Son!), to help me be content with what I have, to help me find thankfulness/joy no matter what is going on, to reveal my sins and give me the strength to overcome them, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to help me forgive others, to help me with my jealousy issues, to use me to accomplish his work, to make me into a good example for others, to give me the strength to be willing to give up anything and everything for him, and to give me the strength to “endure” no matter what.

Since July/August, I’ve found myself praying for people I don’t even like, wishing that God would bless them. I never would have thought to do that before. I’ve thanked God for things which I was never thankful for before. I find myself asking my mom if she needs help with anything (used to groan and grumble even when she would *ask* me to do something, whereas now I jump to help right away). I’ve stopped using curse words (got in a bad habit of cursing back in college/grad school). Etc.

I’m not sure I “feel” much different than I used to, and I am not sure how to tell whether one even has the Holy Spirit or is saved - but I have noticed myself behaving differently in some ways. And I can only assume this is because I’ve asked God to help me with this, because for so much of my life I have been a selfish, jealous person with too many problems to list. And I still have a ton of problems to work out; I’m *far* from perfect.

So I don’t list any of these things to brag, but rather out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)

I was raised to believe Once Saved Always Saved, which is honestly probably part of the reason why I didn’t pay much mind to my sins over the years; it’s a lot easier to think “It’s okay if I sin, God forgives me anyways/I’ll just pray afterwards” than to actually try to change one’s life. Not sure where I stand now on OSAS (I don’t know what to think), but these passages in Hebrews absolutely terrify me. It’s ironic, because from August to December I read the entire New Testament (first time ever doing that), and back then I don’t recall Hebrews giving me such a hard time.

But the other day I read about these passages on some site, and they have terrorized me ever since. I’m not sure what to make of them, but taking them at face value would seem to indicate that someone like me is actually lost forever. Because of my willful sin. And yes, I know that some people will say “Well, all Christians still slip up on occasion and sin,” but it wasn’t like I just slipped up every now and then amidst trying to follow Christ. This was me actively and intentionally living in sin for a time, at least especially in the cases of the live-in girlfriends which were a day-in and day-out lifestyle choice. I had been raised to know this was wrong, and yet I did it anyways.

I tried to forget about God (except when arguing about his existence with the agnostic girl), because thinking about God would always bring me back to the truth of his Word, that what I was doing was wrong. It wasn’t that I didn’t believe in him anymore, and in fact I even still attended church with my family when I would come home to visit over the summer/holidays. It wasn’t like I was just a total unbeliever trying to put on a facade either; I found myself often agreeing with what the pastor said… I was just too caught-up in sin to see myself getting out of it anytime soon.

I guess the bottom-line is, I’m not sure what I am:

I don’t know if I first got saved in 2020, and wasn’t saved before?

I don’t know if I’ve been saved since I was a kid, and just had a period of backsliding and have “come home”?

I don’t know if I was saved as a kid, but my backsliding is what is referred to in Hebrews and thus I am no longer saved even though I know the truth - and so all I can spend the rest of my life doing is living in terrible fear of the knowledge that my fate is an eternity in hell?

I feel so confused. Of course it is possible that Satan is using these verses + my OCD/anxiety to scare me to death and try and get me off the path again, and that he is concerned by the fact that I’ve been reading my Bible/praying/trying to change for the better…

I could definitely imagine one of the following two scenarios being what is happening:

1. OSAS is false and salvation can be lost if one dies in their sins, but backsliders are welcome to repent and “come home”: thus, Satan would be trying to convince me that the Hebrews passage means backsliders *cannot* come home, and that therefore I might as well give up and go back to my self-seeking life like before (and in so doing, end up condemning myself to hell).

2. OSAS is true and salvation cannot be lost, but Satan is concerned that I am actively trying to grow fruit of the Spirit, and wants me to feel hopeless and nip it in the bud before I become a strong believer who might help lead others to Christ.

Either option would be one possible way Satan could be trying to deceive me with this. Plus, isn’t he called the Accuser, who accuses us of our sins and tries to make us feel that we are beyond saving? ...Then again, it’s possible that it’s not Satan, and that I really did just screw up beyond repair with my actions in college/grad school, and that there is no salvation available for me. I guess if that is the case, I would just have to accept that I’m lost and that I deserve hell (because I certainly do)… But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God.

But haven’t lots of Christians over the years (maybe even in the Bible) backslid/turned away and made bad decisions for a time, only to come back to God later? Were these people therefore not real Christians? Was it all fake, an act, and Hebrews actually means that they are in hell now? Did they just *think* that they had overcome their sins and that God had accepted them back, but actually he hadn’t and they were deceived by Satan into thinking that?

Or is it impossible for Satan to even deceive in that way? I mean, yes he is a liar and is capable of major deception, but in some ways I would think that if someone appears to be turning from their sins and is living a more Christ-like life - and fruit of the Spirit can be seen - then I would think that’s an indication that they're legit, and that they really are saved? Idk, like I said I have OCD and so I could sit here all day with my mind going around in circles.

At the end of the day, I just want the truth, and that’s probably one reason I woke up in 2020. I felt (and still feel) so much evil in the world, and have been witnessing so much hypocrisy, so many double standards, etc., that it totally shattered any hope I had in mankind. This world is doomed and I am disgusted by it more and more on a daily basis. At this point I don’t care what happens; all I know is that I believe God is real and that Jesus Christ is his Son and that he came to die for our sins, and that he is the only way to heaven. I just hope I didn’t “miss my flight,” and that I’m still accepted there. I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

Heck, I used to sometimes cringe at Christians who seemed to be “Jesus freaks” and who were very serious and impassioned about their faith. Up until I dated that girl in 2019, I actually *avoided* those people (primarily because I felt they would judge me for my past sins). Yet now I find myself praying to God asking to make *me* into one. And now, when it comes to dating, I am only looking for Christians who take their faith seriously.

I just need to know the truth about what is possible for me at this point. If you’ve read this far, 1. Thank you so much and 2. Please don’t hesitate to hit me with biblical truth; don’t just tell me what I want to hear. If Hebrews really does mean it’s too late for me, I want to know. I’m just scared and depressed. It’s ironic though that I would be feeling this way right after I’ve been taking my faith more seriously than ever before, and after I’ve been seeing myself gradually change and think/act differently than I ever used to. (That is one of the things that makes me wonder if this is Satan messing with me/trying to scare me.) Anyways, thanks again for reading, and I’m so sorry for writing a novel. God bless.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

It is worth noting that NONE of us, not the best, not the most innocent, are any less worthy than you. Nobody is past God's ability to save. Whom he chooses is not on any condition you can provide. God does what he does.

This life is about God, not about you.

 

[Billy93]

It is worth noting that NONE of us, not the best, not the most innocent, are any less worthy than you. Nobody is past God's ability to save. Whom he chooses is not on any condition you can provide. God does what he does.

This life is about God, not about you.

Thanks a lot for your reply. Did you mean to write “any *more* worthy than you”? Because if anything, I am definitely inclined to feel that *I* am *less* worthy than others who are far more innocent than I am, haha.

Sorry, I hope I didn’t somehow seem arrogant in my post, as though I thought I was more worthy than others? Because if so, that’s definitely not the case; I honestly feel so disgusted with myself and the things I’ve done. That’s why I’m worried. :/ Anyways, thanks again.

 

[God is good]

(Part 2)

Anyways, then 2020 came around. It’s funny; at the beginning of the year, I had actually just begun finally actively attending a church up there which I really liked. First time in ages. But then, COVID hit, and it basically destroyed my industry (performing arts). It made living in NYC virtually impossible due to the super-high rent, so I moved back down south to live with my parents and younger brother.

I’m not sure what exactly did it for me, but 2020 was a huge eye-opener and wake-up call for me. In summer/fall, I started praying much more than I can remember ever before, and started reading my Bible again. Since late July/early August, I have been reading the Bible & praying every day. What’s more, I’ve found myself *enjoying* reading the Bible - a lot! - something I don’t think I had ever really felt before. Some nights, I wanted to keep reading and reading. So much of what I’ve read has moved me deeply, and some nights I even found myself sobbing at passages and verses.

I’ve prayed on numerous occasions asking God to change me, to give me more faith, to mold me into who he wants me to be (to make me look more like his Son!), to help me be content with what I have, to help me find thankfulness/joy no matter what is going on, to reveal my sins and give me the strength to overcome them, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to help me forgive others, to help me with my jealousy issues, to use me to accomplish his work, to make me into a good example for others, to give me the strength to be willing to give up anything and everything for him, and to give me the strength to “endure” no matter what.

Since July/August, I’ve found myself praying for people I don’t even like, wishing that God would bless them. I never would have thought to do that before. I’ve thanked God for things which I was never thankful for before. I find myself asking my mom if she needs help with anything (used to groan and grumble even when she would *ask* me to do something, whereas now I jump to help right away). I’ve stopped using curse words (got in a bad habit of cursing back in college/grad school). Etc.

I’m not sure I “feel” much different than I used to, and I am not sure how to tell whether one even has the Holy Spirit or is saved - but I have noticed myself behaving differently in some ways. And I can only assume this is because I’ve asked God to help me with this, because for so much of my life I have been a selfish, jealous person with too many problems to list. And I still have a ton of problems to work out; I’m *far* from perfect.

So I don’t list any of these things to brag, but rather out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)

I was raised to believe Once Saved Always Saved, which is honestly probably part of the reason why I didn’t pay much mind to my sins over the years; it’s a lot easier to think “It’s okay if I sin, God forgives me anyways/I’ll just pray afterwards” than to actually try to change one’s life. Not sure where I stand now on OSAS (I don’t know what to think), but these passages in Hebrews absolutely terrify me. It’s ironic, because from August to December I read the entire New Testament (first time ever doing that), and back then I don’t recall Hebrews giving me such a hard time.

But the other day I read about these passages on some site, and they have terrorized me ever since. I’m not sure what to make of them, but taking them at face value would seem to indicate that someone like me is actually lost forever. Because of my willful sin. And yes, I know that some people will say “Well, all Christians still slip up on occasion and sin,” but it wasn’t like I just slipped up every now and then amidst trying to follow Christ. This was me actively and intentionally living in sin for a time, at least especially in the cases of the live-in girlfriends which were a day-in and day-out lifestyle choice. I had been raised to know this was wrong, and yet I did it anyways.

I tried to forget about God (except when arguing about his existence with the agnostic girl), because thinking about God would always bring me back to the truth of his Word, that what I was doing was wrong. It wasn’t that I didn’t believe in him anymore, and in fact I even still attended church with my family when I would come home to visit over the summer/holidays. It wasn’t like I was just a total unbeliever trying to put on a facade either; I found myself often agreeing with what the pastor said… I was just too caught-up in sin to see myself getting out of it anytime soon.

I guess the bottom-line is, I’m not sure what I am:

I don’t know if I first got saved in 2020, and wasn’t saved before?

I don’t know if I’ve been saved since I was a kid, and just had a period of backsliding and have “come home”?

I don’t know if I was saved as a kid, but my backsliding is what is referred to in Hebrews and thus I am no longer saved even though I know the truth - and so all I can spend the rest of my life doing is living in terrible fear of the knowledge that my fate is an eternity in hell?

I feel so confused. Of course it is possible that Satan is using these verses + my OCD/anxiety to scare me to death and try and get me off the path again, and that he is concerned by the fact that I’ve been reading my Bible/praying/trying to change for the better…

I could definitely imagine one of the following two scenarios being what is happening:

1. OSAS is false and salvation can be lost if one dies in their sins, but backsliders are welcome to repent and “come home”: thus, Satan would be trying to convince me that the Hebrews passage means backsliders *cannot* come home, and that therefore I might as well give up and go back to my self-seeking life like before (and in so doing, end up condemning myself to hell).

2. OSAS is true and salvation cannot be lost, but Satan is concerned that I am actively trying to grow fruit of the Spirit, and wants me to feel hopeless and nip it in the bud before I become a strong believer who might help lead others to Christ.

Either option would be one possible way Satan could be trying to deceive me with this. Plus, isn’t he called the Accuser, who accuses us of our sins and tries to make us feel that we are beyond saving? ...Then again, it’s possible that it’s not Satan, and that I really did just screw up beyond repair with my actions in college/grad school, and that there is no salvation available for me. I guess if that is the case, I would just have to accept that I’m lost and that I deserve hell (because I certainly do)… But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God.

But haven’t lots of Christians over the years (maybe even in the Bible) backslid/turned away and made bad decisions for a time, only to come back to God later? Were these people therefore not real Christians? Was it all fake, an act, and Hebrews actually means that they are in hell now? Did they just *think* that they had overcome their sins and that God had accepted them back, but actually he hadn’t and they were deceived by Satan into thinking that?

Or is it impossible for Satan to even deceive in that way? I mean, yes he is a liar and is capable of major deception, but in some ways I would think that if someone appears to be turning from their sins and is living a more Christ-like life - and fruit of the Spirit can be seen - then I would think that’s an indication that they're legit, and that they really are saved? Idk, like I said I have OCD and so I could sit here all day with my mind going around in circles.

At the end of the day, I just want the truth, and that’s probably one reason I woke up in 2020. I felt (and still feel) so much evil in the world, and have been witnessing so much hypocrisy, so many double standards, etc., that it totally shattered any hope I had in mankind. This world is doomed and I am disgusted by it more and more on a daily basis. At this point I don’t care what happens; all I know is that I believe God is real and that Jesus Christ is his Son and that he came to die for our sins, and that he is the only way to heaven. I just hope I didn’t “miss my flight,” and that I’m still accepted there. I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

Heck, I used to sometimes cringe at Christians who seemed to be “Jesus freaks” and who were very serious and impassioned about their faith. Up until I dated that girl in 2019, I actually *avoided* those people (primarily because I felt they would judge me for my past sins). Yet now I find myself praying to God asking to make *me* into one. And now, when it comes to dating, I am only looking for Christians who take their faith seriously.

I just need to know the truth about what is possible for me at this point. If you’ve read this far, 1. Thank you so much and 2. Please don’t hesitate to hit me with biblical truth; don’t just tell me what I want to hear. If Hebrews really does mean it’s too late for me, I want to know. I’m just scared and depressed. It’s ironic though that I would be feeling this way right after I’ve been taking my faith more seriously than ever before, and after I’ve been seeing myself gradually change and think/act differently than I ever used to. (That is one of the things that makes me wonder if this is Satan messing with me/trying to scare me.) Anyways, thanks again for reading, and I’m so sorry for writing a novel. God bless.

Hi brother, I just want you to know that I read your whole posts and I just want to say that God really loves you and I believe that you can still be saved because God is very forgiving and very loving. I know you said that your living in Sin wasn't just a slip up but remember the story of the prodigal son. He lived in sin when he knew it was wrong and his father welcomed him back and still loved him. Jesus loves you and Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.

 

[Billy93]

Hi brother, I just want you to know that I read your whole posts and I just want to say that God really loves you and I believe that you can still be saved because God is very forgiving and very loving. I know you said that your living in Sin wasn't just a slip up but remember the story of the prodigal son. He lived in sin when he knew it was wrong and his father welcomed him back and still loved him. Jesus loves you and Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.

Hi, thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate what you said. Your point about the Prodigal Son is a good one; in fact when I had talked to people over the past months about how I was trying to get back to God and “get right” with him, I referred to myself as “a prodigal son” - so I clearly thought of that story back then. But for some reason these Hebrews verses just scared me half to death the other night.

The ironic thing is, this all happened just within a day or so after I had a breaking point over a specific sin; I had slipped up, got so frustrated with myself and said “Enough. Not doing this anymore” and put my foot down firmly and was resolved to change. I was feeling both disgusted over my sin but also happy with myself that I was taking it seriously and that I was determined to change. And then I just so happened to stumble upon those verses online. Part of me wonders if Satan was like "Oh crap, he's serious about changing… Better scare him into thinking it's hopeless and he's doomed forever! Time to pull out the Hebrews verses.” Lol.

The timing just seemed very interesting to me, especially considering I read through the whole book of Hebrews just a few months ago and those passages didn’t bother me like that, back then. I have watched a few sermons on these passages and multiple pastors refer to these as “the Devil’s favorite verses” because of how easy it is to make believers paralyzed with fear, I guess.

Anyways, yes, Jesus loves me and I have asked him to be Lord of my life, and I thank him for dying for my sins (of which there are far too many to count). I just hope it’s not too late. But I think these Hebrews verses are likely far outnumbered by verses talking about second chances, and God welcoming people who repent and are willing to come back to him. Maybe I should spend some more time reading *those* verses and uplifting my spirit, rather than allow these Hebrews verses (possibly a faulty interpretation of them, too!) to get me down into a rut. Thanks again so much for the encouragement. God bless.

 

[Sabertooth]

@Billy93, the real issue is that you keep trying argue & reason with your OCD, when it only exists to accuse you. It is unwilling to accept your arguments.

The only effective argument against OCD is to get rid of it, by

1. seeking treatment by a psychiatrist, and
2. attending a church that is good with dealing with such.

The Church & Mental Illness...

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks a lot for your reply. Did you mean to write “any *more* worthy than you”? Because if anything, I am definitely inclined to feel that *I* am *less* worthy than others who are far more innocent than I am, haha.

Sorry, I hope I didn’t somehow seem arrogant in my post, as though I thought I was more worthy than others? Because if so, that’s definitely not the case; I honestly feel so disgusted with myself and the things I’ve done. That’s why I’m worried. :/ Anyways, thanks again.

Not that anything I have to say will add to your knowledge at this point, but consider the fact that God's forgiveness is not at all dependent on the amount of forgiveness. We have all transgressed the whole law. We ALL are worthy of only of spiritual death. Thank God for Rebirth.

 

[Billy93]

@Billy93, the real issue is that you keep trying argue & reason with your OCD, when it only exists to accuse you. It is unwilling to accept your arguments.

The only effective argument against OCD is to get rid of it, by

1. seeking treatment by a psychiatrist, and
2. attending a church that is good with dealing with such.

The Church & Mental Illness...

Thanks so much for your comment and for the link. I think what you said is spot-on - and it is frustrating, because I try to be a logical person and have logical discussions (and debates in my own head over issues); the problem is, I have a totally unreasonable part of my mind (the OCD) which as you say is unwilling to accept my arguments. For instance: Even if I am able to put these Hebrews verses in context, or see numerous sermons saying that those Hebrews verses don’t mean what I think they do/aren’t about people like me/that there is still hope for me - my mind fights back and says “But they could still be wrong! It’s possible that you *can’t* be saved! Your prayers probably aren’t even getting to God; he probably doesn’t listen to you anymore!” It’s extremely demoralizing. Feels like unless I can be totally 100% sure of my salvation/my interpretation of verses, then my go-to is to assume I’m not saved/am wrong. …Even if it’s like 98%, that’s not enough for my mind.

Also, I am currently seeing (albeit virtually) a Christian therapist; she’s been a big help. I do still need to get plugged into a good church, though. Thanks again for the reply.

 

[Billy93]

Not that anything I have to say will add to your knowledge at this point, but consider the fact that God's forgiveness is not at all dependent on the amount of forgiveness. We have all transgressed the whole law. We ALL are worthy of only of spiritual death. Thank God for Rebirth.

You’re right; thank you. And yes, thank God.

 

[Mari17]

(Part 2)

Anyways, then 2020 came around. It’s funny; at the beginning of the year, I had actually just begun finally actively attending a church up there which I really liked. First time in ages. But then, COVID hit, and it basically destroyed my industry (performing arts). It made living in NYC virtually impossible due to the super-high rent, so I moved back down south to live with my parents and younger brother.

I’m not sure what exactly did it for me, but 2020 was a huge eye-opener and wake-up call for me. In summer/fall, I started praying much more than I can remember ever before, and started reading my Bible again. Since late July/early August, I have been reading the Bible & praying every day. What’s more, I’ve found myself *enjoying* reading the Bible - a lot! - something I don’t think I had ever really felt before. Some nights, I wanted to keep reading and reading. So much of what I’ve read has moved me deeply, and some nights I even found myself sobbing at passages and verses.

I’ve prayed on numerous occasions asking God to change me, to give me more faith, to mold me into who he wants me to be (to make me look more like his Son!), to help me be content with what I have, to help me find thankfulness/joy no matter what is going on, to reveal my sins and give me the strength to overcome them, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to help me forgive others, to help me with my jealousy issues, to use me to accomplish his work, to make me into a good example for others, to give me the strength to be willing to give up anything and everything for him, and to give me the strength to “endure” no matter what.

Since July/August, I’ve found myself praying for people I don’t even like, wishing that God would bless them. I never would have thought to do that before. I’ve thanked God for things which I was never thankful for before. I find myself asking my mom if she needs help with anything (used to groan and grumble even when she would *ask* me to do something, whereas now I jump to help right away). I’ve stopped using curse words (got in a bad habit of cursing back in college/grad school). Etc.

I’m not sure I “feel” much different than I used to, and I am not sure how to tell whether one even has the Holy Spirit or is saved - but I have noticed myself behaving differently in some ways. And I can only assume this is because I’ve asked God to help me with this, because for so much of my life I have been a selfish, jealous person with too many problems to list. And I still have a ton of problems to work out; I’m *far* from perfect.

So I don’t list any of these things to brag, but rather out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)

I was raised to believe Once Saved Always Saved, which is honestly probably part of the reason why I didn’t pay much mind to my sins over the years; it’s a lot easier to think “It’s okay if I sin, God forgives me anyways/I’ll just pray afterwards” than to actually try to change one’s life. Not sure where I stand now on OSAS (I don’t know what to think), but these passages in Hebrews absolutely terrify me. It’s ironic, because from August to December I read the entire New Testament (first time ever doing that), and back then I don’t recall Hebrews giving me such a hard time.

But the other day I read about these passages on some site, and they have terrorized me ever since. I’m not sure what to make of them, but taking them at face value would seem to indicate that someone like me is actually lost forever. Because of my willful sin. And yes, I know that some people will say “Well, all Christians still slip up on occasion and sin,” but it wasn’t like I just slipped up every now and then amidst trying to follow Christ. This was me actively and intentionally living in sin for a time, at least especially in the cases of the live-in girlfriends which were a day-in and day-out lifestyle choice. I had been raised to know this was wrong, and yet I did it anyways.

I tried to forget about God (except when arguing about his existence with the agnostic girl), because thinking about God would always bring me back to the truth of his Word, that what I was doing was wrong. It wasn’t that I didn’t believe in him anymore, and in fact I even still attended church with my family when I would come home to visit over the summer/holidays. It wasn’t like I was just a total unbeliever trying to put on a facade either; I found myself often agreeing with what the pastor said… I was just too caught-up in sin to see myself getting out of it anytime soon.

I guess the bottom-line is, I’m not sure what I am:

I don’t know if I first got saved in 2020, and wasn’t saved before?

I don’t know if I’ve been saved since I was a kid, and just had a period of backsliding and have “come home”?

I don’t know if I was saved as a kid, but my backsliding is what is referred to in Hebrews and thus I am no longer saved even though I know the truth - and so all I can spend the rest of my life doing is living in terrible fear of the knowledge that my fate is an eternity in hell?

I feel so confused. Of course it is possible that Satan is using these verses + my OCD/anxiety to scare me to death and try and get me off the path again, and that he is concerned by the fact that I’ve been reading my Bible/praying/trying to change for the better…

I could definitely imagine one of the following two scenarios being what is happening:

1. OSAS is false and salvation can be lost if one dies in their sins, but backsliders are welcome to repent and “come home”: thus, Satan would be trying to convince me that the Hebrews passage means backsliders *cannot* come home, and that therefore I might as well give up and go back to my self-seeking life like before (and in so doing, end up condemning myself to hell).

2. OSAS is true and salvation cannot be lost, but Satan is concerned that I am actively trying to grow fruit of the Spirit, and wants me to feel hopeless and nip it in the bud before I become a strong believer who might help lead others to Christ.

Either option would be one possible way Satan could be trying to deceive me with this. Plus, isn’t he called the Accuser, who accuses us of our sins and tries to make us feel that we are beyond saving? ...Then again, it’s possible that it’s not Satan, and that I really did just screw up beyond repair with my actions in college/grad school, and that there is no salvation available for me. I guess if that is the case, I would just have to accept that I’m lost and that I deserve hell (because I certainly do)… But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God.

But haven’t lots of Christians over the years (maybe even in the Bible) backslid/turned away and made bad decisions for a time, only to come back to God later? Were these people therefore not real Christians? Was it all fake, an act, and Hebrews actually means that they are in hell now? Did they just *think* that they had overcome their sins and that God had accepted them back, but actually he hadn’t and they were deceived by Satan into thinking that?

Or is it impossible for Satan to even deceive in that way? I mean, yes he is a liar and is capable of major deception, but in some ways I would think that if someone appears to be turning from their sins and is living a more Christ-like life - and fruit of the Spirit can be seen - then I would think that’s an indication that they're legit, and that they really are saved? Idk, like I said I have OCD and so I could sit here all day with my mind going around in circles.

At the end of the day, I just want the truth, and that’s probably one reason I woke up in 2020. I felt (and still feel) so much evil in the world, and have been witnessing so much hypocrisy, so many double standards, etc., that it totally shattered any hope I had in mankind. This world is doomed and I am disgusted by it more and more on a daily basis. At this point I don’t care what happens; all I know is that I believe God is real and that Jesus Christ is his Son and that he came to die for our sins, and that he is the only way to heaven. I just hope I didn’t “miss my flight,” and that I’m still accepted there. I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

Heck, I used to sometimes cringe at Christians who seemed to be “Jesus freaks” and who were very serious and impassioned about their faith. Up until I dated that girl in 2019, I actually *avoided* those people (primarily because I felt they would judge me for my past sins). Yet now I find myself praying to God asking to make *me* into one. And now, when it comes to dating, I am only looking for Christians who take their faith seriously.

I just need to know the truth about what is possible for me at this point. If you’ve read this far, 1. Thank you so much and 2. Please don’t hesitate to hit me with biblical truth; don’t just tell me what I want to hear. If Hebrews really does mean it’s too late for me, I want to know. I’m just scared and depressed. It’s ironic though that I would be feeling this way right after I’ve been taking my faith more seriously than ever before, and after I’ve been seeing myself gradually change and think/act differently than I ever used to. (That is one of the things that makes me wonder if this is Satan messing with me/trying to scare me.) Anyways, thanks again for reading, and I’m so sorry for writing a novel. God bless.

Wow. What a beautiful story of repentance and redemption! Thank you so much for sharing!

I've had OCD most of my life, so I totally get that way of thinking. It's so hard when we don't KNOW an answer for sure, and we have all these good logical reasons for not believing our worst fear, but we still can't be SURE. OCD is, at its core, an inability to accept uncertainty in whatever our obsessive topic happens to be. So the goal is to treat the OCD and that "addiction" to certainty, and as we do, we become able to live with a reasonable amount of doubt, without having all sorts of fear attached to the topic. I just wrote an extensive reply about this on another thread, so please consider checking it out: OCD Vows

I think the bottom line is what you said right here: "But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God." OCD would love to have us go round and round on a question that we can never FULLY know the answer to. But the fact of the matter is, you would still choose to follow Christ no matter what the answer to your question is. Even if you would possibly be doomed, wouldn't it be WAY better to keep living as a Christian, trusting that perhaps God in His mercy would make a way for you? So basically, the answer to your question is irrelevant. And considering the fact that OCD will continue to bring up doubts no matter how much reassurance you seek, there's really no point in endlessly ruminating about it.

However. It is extremely hard for those of us with OCD to live with the fear and discomfort that accompanies that uncertainty. The good news is that as we learn to deal with it, as we treat the OCD and learn to focus on our daily lives and actions, that excessive fear and doubt tends to fade. OCD really only wants attention. The more we give it, the more it thrives. The less we give it, the more it fades.

I'd highly recommend checking out the links in the post I referred to above; especially ocdandchristianity.com. Also please consider joining the FB group "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" if you would like some peer support. You're definitely not alone, and this is in fact a very common verse for Christians with OCD to get hung up on. I'm so encouraged by your story, and I'm confident that you will gain more hope, joy, and peace as you learn to let the OCD go and trust more in our wonderful and merciful Savior!

P.S.: I've also heard some people recommend John Bunyan's book "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" as being quite helpful with OCD. Apparently he had obsessions as well, albeit before they had "invented" OCD! LOL.

 

[Billy93]

Wow. What a beautiful story of repentance and redemption! Thank you so much for sharing!

I've had OCD most of my life, so I totally get that way of thinking. It's so hard when we don't KNOW an answer for sure, and we have all these good logical reasons for not believing our worst fear, but we still can't be SURE. OCD is, at its core, an inability to accept uncertainty in whatever our obsessive topic happens to be. So the goal is to treat the OCD and that "addiction" to certainty, and as we do, we become able to live with a reasonable amount of doubt, without having all sorts of fear attached to the topic. I just wrote an extensive reply about this on another thread, so please consider checking it out: OCD Vows

I think the bottom line is what you said right here: "But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God." OCD would love to have us go round and round on a question that we can never FULLY know the answer to. But the fact of the matter is, you would still choose to follow Christ no matter what the answer to your question is. Even if you would possibly be doomed, wouldn't it be WAY better to keep living as a Christian, trusting that perhaps God in His mercy would make a way for you? So basically, the answer to your question is irrelevant. And considering the fact that OCD will continue to bring up doubts no matter how much reassurance you seek, there's really no point in endlessly ruminating about it.

However. It is extremely hard for those of us with OCD to live with the fear and discomfort that accompanies that uncertainty. The good news is that as we learn to deal with it, as we treat the OCD and learn to focus on our daily lives and actions, that excessive fear and doubt tends to fade. OCD really only wants attention. The more we give it, the more it thrives. The less we give it, the more it fades.

I'd highly recommend checking out the links in the post I referred to above; especially ocdandchristianity.com. Also please consider joining the FB group "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" if you would like some peer support. You're definitely not alone, and this is in fact a very common verse for Christians with OCD to get hung up on. I'm so encouraged by your story, and I'm confident that you will gain more hope, joy, and peace as you learn to let the OCD go and trust more in our wonderful and merciful Savior!

P.S.: I've also heard some people recommend John Bunyan's book "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" as being quite helpful with OCD. Apparently he had obsessions as well, albeit before they had "invented" OCD! LOL.

Thank you so much for your response! Yep, I’ve had OCD since I was in high school - plenty of ups and downs, and I’ve gotten better about a lot of things but every now and then something like this shows up and throws me a curveball. You hit the nail on the head: It is all about uncertainty, about me feeling a need to have 100% reassurance about something (in this case, the Hebrews interpretation). Anything less than total certainty (even like 98%) doesn’t cut it… because there will always be that slight chance I could be wrong! And that’s where the terror comes in, as I’m sure you can relate.

The thing is, as you pointed out in your other post you linked (I read that too btw; thanks for sharing it!), it’s *impossible* on this Earth to have 100% certainty for questions like this. It’s frustrating too, though, because I try to be a pretty logical person in my day-to-day life; I enjoy debating issues, reading arguments for/against things, etc. So when I find myself hitting a brick wall with something like this, it’s maddening.

For instance, believe it or not virtually *every* sermon video and online post I’ve read in regards to these passages, has said that effectively I’m freaking out over nothing: whether it be pastors saying that OSAS is true and thus I have nothing to worry about, pastors saying OSAS is false but that God is always open to people to repent and draw near to him, pastors saying that the verses actually meant something completely different and was about Jewish believers who wanted to give up Christianity in the name of persecution, etc.

Basically, in my obsessed frenzy to find the truth of this passage, over the last few days I’ve watched video after video. And the general consensus seems to be that, if you’re concerned about your salvation and are worried about your relationship with God and are trying to change your life and give up sins… then you’re probably *not* who this passage is referring to, because if anything it would probably be someone whose heart is so hardened that they are totally apathetic and unreachable.

So, seeing those videos should make me feel better, right? Well, you would think so - but my mind’s next go-to thought has been “Well, maybe these pastors/people are just interpreting it this way because they know that *they’d* fit the criteria too, and they are in denial about the possibility that maybe *they’re* not actually saved!” So instead of my mind going “Oh, phew! Looks like I was wrong; there’s a gazillion interpretations of these passages, and furthermore they were written by Paul of all people, who even Peter admits is kind of a confusing guy… And plus, there are a ton of examples of God welcoming ‘lost sheep’ back, talking about prodigal sons, verses about trying to get believers back if they go astray, etc.” - instead of that, my mind went to “These guys must all be wrong; I feel like I must be doomed.”

I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir here; you know how it feels. I just really need to find a healthier way to deal with uncertainty. I feel like a *normal* person would just think “Whoa, those are some scary verses… Oh, but it looks like I probably freaked out for nothing; pretty much *everybody* seems to interpret those differently. Besides, the whole concept of Christianity is that God is a forgiving God, and if he wants people to forgive 70 x 7 I imagine he’ll still give me a chance if I’m serious about repenting. Either way, not much I can do now except press on and try and live a good life for God!” ...But that’s obviously not my default response, lol.

Anyways, I’ll check out those other links! And thanks for the book recommendation! I hadn’t heard of it before but I’ll check it out; sounds interesting. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Dendy]

Hey. I don't know what exactly Paul was trying to say in these verses but I do know that Jesus had a parable about someone who owned 100 sheep and one went missing and the owner left the 99 to go and get the one missing back. He already owned them and lost one and went and got it back. In the original King James version I think in the verses you fear that Paul was leaning to towards the afterlife - I think it says tasted of the powers of the world to come. It sounds like after death you can't repent. I do want to ask you to please stay away from inappropriate content and same sex happenings. I believe they are both nothing short of abominations similar to Sodom from which the term sodomy comes. You can certainly be forgiven for the past but please from this day forward seek to do what is good in the sight of our precious Lord.

 

[Mari17]

Thank you so much for your response! Yep, I’ve had OCD since I was in high school - plenty of ups and downs, and I’ve gotten better about a lot of things but every now and then something like this shows up and throws me a curveball. You hit the nail on the head: It is all about uncertainty, about me feeling a need to have 100% reassurance about something (in this case, the Hebrews interpretation). Anything less than total certainty (even like 98%) doesn’t cut it… because there will always be that slight chance I could be wrong! And that’s where the terror comes in, as I’m sure you can relate.

The thing is, as you pointed out in your other post you linked (I read that too btw; thanks for sharing it!), it’s *impossible* on this Earth to have 100% certainty for questions like this. It’s frustrating too, though, because I try to be a pretty logical person in my day-to-day life; I enjoy debating issues, reading arguments for/against things, etc. So when I find myself hitting a brick wall with something like this, it’s maddening.

For instance, believe it or not virtually *every* sermon video and online post I’ve read in regards to these passages, has said that effectively I’m freaking out over nothing: whether it be pastors saying that OSAS is true and thus I have nothing to worry about, pastors saying OSAS is false but that God is always open to people to repent and draw near to him, pastors saying that the verses actually meant something completely different and was about Jewish believers who wanted to give up Christianity in the name of persecution, etc.

Basically, in my obsessed frenzy to find the truth of this passage, over the last few days I’ve watched video after video. And the general consensus seems to be that, if you’re concerned about your salvation and are worried about your relationship with God and are trying to change your life and give up sins… then you’re probably *not* who this passage is referring to, because if anything it would probably be someone whose heart is so hardened that they are totally apathetic and unreachable.

So, seeing those videos should make me feel better, right? Well, you would think so - but my mind’s next go-to thought has been “Well, maybe these pastors/people are just interpreting it this way because they know that *they’d* fit the criteria too, and they are in denial about the possibility that maybe *they’re* not actually saved!” So instead of my mind going “Oh, phew! Looks like I was wrong; there’s a gazillion interpretations of these passages, and furthermore they were written by Paul of all people, who even Peter admits is kind of a confusing guy… And plus, there are a ton of examples of God welcoming ‘lost sheep’ back, talking about prodigal sons, verses about trying to get believers back if they go astray, etc.” - instead of that, my mind went to “These guys must all be wrong; I feel like I must be doomed.”

I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir here; you know how it feels. I just really need to find a healthier way to deal with uncertainty. I feel like a *normal* person would just think “Whoa, those are some scary verses… Oh, but it looks like I probably freaked out for nothing; pretty much *everybody* seems to interpret those differently. Besides, the whole concept of Christianity is that God is a forgiving God, and if he wants people to forgive 70 x 7 I imagine he’ll still give me a chance if I’m serious about repenting. Either way, not much I can do now except press on and try and live a good life for God!” ...But that’s obviously not my default response, lol.

Anyways, I’ll check out those other links! And thanks for the book recommendation! I hadn’t heard of it before but I’ll check it out; sounds interesting. Thanks again for your reply.

I can tell you're logical by your response! And you know the answers already - it's just the "risk" of letting go of the fear that's so difficult. I have every confidence, though, that with God's help you can do it. I'd be happy to discuss this more or provide links to more resources anytime. This OCD stuff is a strange business - but the result of this process of letting go and learning to trust God is a greater confidence and joy in Him, a greater peace, and a greater freedom! What a trade-off!

 

[Billy93]

Hey. I don't know what exactly Paul was trying to say in these verses but I do know that Jesus had a parable about someone who owned 100 sheep and one went missing and the owner left the 99 to go and get the one missing back. He already owned them and lost one and went and got it back. In the original King James version I think in the verses you fear that Paul was leaning to towards the afterlife - I think it says tasted of the powers of the world to come. It sounds like after death you can't repent. I do want to ask you to please stay away from inappropriate content and same sex happenings. I believe they are both nothing short of abominations similar to Sodom from which the term sodomy comes. You can certainly be forgiven for the past but please from this day forward seek to do what is good in the sight of our precious Lord.

Thanks for your message. You’re right, the parable of the lost sheep is a great one. And I guess the Prodigal Son is also applicable. Very interesting interpretation about those verses, in regards to the afterlife; I don’t think I had seen that interpretation before but that would definitely make sense. At the end of the day, I worry that I’m getting myself all twisted up over just a couple verses when the vast majority of Scripture seems to give off the impression that we have a forgiving God who is probably (hopefully!) *glad* that I am currently seeking Him and trying to live how He wants me to live. I suppose it wouldn’t really fit His character to give me the desire to seek Him out, if it was just to torture me and not listen to my pleas/ignore my repentance.

Then again, the OCD says “Yeah, but you still don’t know *for sure*” - and that’s the whole issue; I have this insatiable need to be 100% sure of my salvation, when really I should probably just focus on reading my Bible, praying, and in general doing what is right before God’s eyes. I definitely agree with you about the sexual sins; they are disgusting and I regret them (especially the same sex stuff; my mind has gotten a bit numb to the inappropriate content over the years but I do recognize it is wrong and bad). For some crazy reason, as I started doing more and more dumb things, I kept feeling like “Oh well, it’s too late, I told myself I’d never do that and yet I did it. Might as well just stop caring.” Which obviously 1. Makes no logical sense and 2. Is probably a lie straight from Satan, that gets a lot of people entrenched in more and more sins over time. Anyways, thanks again for your message of encouragement and advice.

 

[Billy93]

I can tell you're logical by your response! And you know the answers already - it's just the "risk" of letting go of the fear that's so difficult. I have every confidence, though, that with God's help you can do it. I'd be happy to discuss this more or provide links to more resources anytime. This OCD stuff is a strange business - but the result of this process of letting go and learning to trust God is a greater confidence and joy in Him, a greater peace, and a greater freedom! What a trade-off!

Haha, thanks! And yes - that’s exactly it. Would you happen to have anymore links you’d recommend (if it’s not a bother)?

 

[Mari17]

Haha, thanks! And yes - that’s exactly it. Would you happen to have anymore links you’d recommend (if it’s not a bother)?

Not a bother at all! I'm not really good at responding promptly on the forum right now, but if I ever forget, I don't mind being reminded! I really like Mitzi VanCleve's work; she has a book "Strivings Within: The OCD Christian," and a blog here: The OCD Christian. She's also the founder of the support group I mentioned before, "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" (on Facebook). I also like the book "Breaking Free of OCD: My Battle With Mental Pain and How God Rescued Me" by Jeff Wells. This podcast may be helpful too: Episode 6 - Helping Those Struggling with Scrupulosity, or Religious OCD — CBCD | Center for Biblical Counseling & Discipleship. And there are also secular resources, such as Dr. Stephen Phillipson's https://www.ocdonline.com/. But it seems that maybe Christian-based resources might be the most helpful to you right now. I'm willing to suggest more as needed, though!

 

[Billy93]

Not a bother at all! I'm not really good at responding promptly on the forum right now, but if I ever forget, I don't mind being reminded! I really like Mitzi VanCleve's work; she has a book "Strivings Within: The OCD Christian," and a blog here: The OCD Christian. She's also the founder of the support group I mentioned before, "Christianity and Anxiety Disorders" (on Facebook). I also like the book "Breaking Free of OCD: My Battle With Mental Pain and How God Rescued Me" by Jeff Wells. This podcast may be helpful too: Episode 6 - Helping Those Struggling with Scrupulosity, or Religious OCD — CBCD | Center for Biblical Counseling & Discipleship. And there are also secular resources, such as Dr. Stephen Phillipson's https://www.ocdonline.com/. But it seems that maybe Christian-based resources might be the most helpful to you right now. I'm willing to suggest more as needed, though!

Sorry for my own delayed response. I’ll check out these resources; thanks so much! I do think that Christian-based may be best for me right now. I’ve read some secular stuff in the past (mostly before I really got serious about faith in God), and while it has definitely been helpful, I think reading Christian perspectives on this sort of thing is what I need - especially since it’s Christianity which I’m obsessing *about*!

 

[Mari17]

Sorry for my own delayed response. I’ll check out these resources; thanks so much! I do think that Christian-based may be best for me right now. I’ve read some secular stuff in the past (mostly before I really got serious about faith in God), and while it has definitely been helpful, I think reading Christian perspectives on this sort of thing is what I need - especially since it’s Christianity which I’m obsessing *about*!

You're welcome! Anytime!

 

[corinth77777]

(Part 2)

Anyways, then 2020 came around. It’s funny; at the beginning of the year, I had actually just begun finally actively attending a church up there which I really liked. First time in ages. But then, COVID hit, and it basically destroyed my industry (performing arts). It made living in NYC virtually impossible due to the super-high rent, so I moved back down south to live with my parents and younger brother.

I’m not sure what exactly did it for me, but 2020 was a huge eye-opener and wake-up call for me. In summer/fall, I started praying much more than I can remember ever before, and started reading my Bible again. Since late July/early August, I have been reading the Bible & praying every day. What’s more, I’ve found myself *enjoying* reading the Bible - a lot! - something I don’t think I had ever really felt before. Some nights, I wanted to keep reading and reading. So much of what I’ve read has moved me deeply, and some nights I even found myself sobbing at passages and verses.

I’ve prayed on numerous occasions asking God to change me, to give me more faith, to mold me into who he wants me to be (to make me look more like his Son!), to help me be content with what I have, to help me find thankfulness/joy no matter what is going on, to reveal my sins and give me the strength to overcome them, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to help me forgive others, to help me with my jealousy issues, to use me to accomplish his work, to make me into a good example for others, to give me the strength to be willing to give up anything and everything for him, and to give me the strength to “endure” no matter what.

Since July/August, I’ve found myself praying for people I don’t even like, wishing that God would bless them. I never would have thought to do that before. I’ve thanked God for things which I was never thankful for before. I find myself asking my mom if she needs help with anything (used to groan and grumble even when she would *ask* me to do something, whereas now I jump to help right away). I’ve stopped using curse words (got in a bad habit of cursing back in college/grad school). Etc.

I’m not sure I “feel” much different than I used to, and I am not sure how to tell whether one even has the Holy Spirit or is saved - but I have noticed myself behaving differently in some ways. And I can only assume this is because I’ve asked God to help me with this, because for so much of my life I have been a selfish, jealous person with too many problems to list. And I still have a ton of problems to work out; I’m *far* from perfect.

So I don’t list any of these things to brag, but rather out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)

I was raised to believe Once Saved Always Saved, which is honestly probably part of the reason why I didn’t pay much mind to my sins over the years; it’s a lot easier to think “It’s okay if I sin, God forgives me anyways/I’ll just pray afterwards” than to actually try to change one’s life. Not sure where I stand now on OSAS (I don’t know what to think), but these passages in Hebrews absolutely terrify me. It’s ironic, because from August to December I read the entire New Testament (first time ever doing that), and back then I don’t recall Hebrews giving me such a hard time.

But the other day I read about these passages on some site, and they have terrorized me ever since. I’m not sure what to make of them, but taking them at face value would seem to indicate that someone like me is actually lost forever. Because of my willful sin. And yes, I know that some people will say “Well, all Christians still slip up on occasion and sin,” but it wasn’t like I just slipped up every now and then amidst trying to follow Christ. This was me actively and intentionally living in sin for a time, at least especially in the cases of the live-in girlfriends which were a day-in and day-out lifestyle choice. I had been raised to know this was wrong, and yet I did it anyways.

I tried to forget about God (except when arguing about his existence with the agnostic girl), because thinking about God would always bring me back to the truth of his Word, that what I was doing was wrong. It wasn’t that I didn’t believe in him anymore, and in fact I even still attended church with my family when I would come home to visit over the summer/holidays. It wasn’t like I was just a total unbeliever trying to put on a facade either; I found myself often agreeing with what the pastor said… I was just too caught-up in sin to see myself getting out of it anytime soon.

I guess the bottom-line is, I’m not sure what I am:

I don’t know if I first got saved in 2020, and wasn’t saved before?

I don’t know if I’ve been saved since I was a kid, and just had a period of backsliding and have “come home”?

I don’t know if I was saved as a kid, but my backsliding is what is referred to in Hebrews and thus I am no longer saved even though I know the truth - and so all I can spend the rest of my life doing is living in terrible fear of the knowledge that my fate is an eternity in hell?

I feel so confused. Of course it is possible that Satan is using these verses + my OCD/anxiety to scare me to death and try and get me off the path again, and that he is concerned by the fact that I’ve been reading my Bible/praying/trying to change for the better…

I could definitely imagine one of the following two scenarios being what is happening:

1. OSAS is false and salvation can be lost if one dies in their sins, but backsliders are welcome to repent and “come home”: thus, Satan would be trying to convince me that the Hebrews passage means backsliders *cannot* come home, and that therefore I might as well give up and go back to my self-seeking life like before (and in so doing, end up condemning myself to hell).

2. OSAS is true and salvation cannot be lost, but Satan is concerned that I am actively trying to grow fruit of the Spirit, and wants me to feel hopeless and nip it in the bud before I become a strong believer who might help lead others to Christ.

Either option would be one possible way Satan could be trying to deceive me with this. Plus, isn’t he called the Accuser, who accuses us of our sins and tries to make us feel that we are beyond saving? ...Then again, it’s possible that it’s not Satan, and that I really did just screw up beyond repair with my actions in college/grad school, and that there is no salvation available for me. I guess if that is the case, I would just have to accept that I’m lost and that I deserve hell (because I certainly do)… But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God.

But haven’t lots of Christians over the years (maybe even in the Bible) backslid/turned away and made bad decisions for a time, only to come back to God later? Were these people therefore not real Christians? Was it all fake, an act, and Hebrews actually means that they are in hell now? Did they just *think* that they had overcome their sins and that God had accepted them back, but actually he hadn’t and they were deceived by Satan into thinking that?

Or is it impossible for Satan to even deceive in that way? I mean, yes he is a liar and is capable of major deception, but in some ways I would think that if someone appears to be turning from their sins and is living a more Christ-like life - and fruit of the Spirit can be seen - then I would think that’s an indication that they're legit, and that they really are saved? Idk, like I said I have OCD and so I could sit here all day with my mind going around in circles.

At the end of the day, I just want the truth, and that’s probably one reason I woke up in 2020. I felt (and still feel) so much evil in the world, and have been witnessing so much hypocrisy, so many double standards, etc., that it totally shattered any hope I had in mankind. This world is doomed and I am disgusted by it more and more on a daily basis. At this point I don’t care what happens; all I know is that I believe God is real and that Jesus Christ is his Son and that he came to die for our sins, and that he is the only way to heaven. I just hope I didn’t “miss my flight,” and that I’m still accepted there. I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

Heck, I used to sometimes cringe at Christians who seemed to be “Jesus freaks” and who were very serious and impassioned about their faith. Up until I dated that girl in 2019, I actually *avoided* those people (primarily because I felt they would judge me for my past sins). Yet now I find myself praying to God asking to make *me* into one. And now, when it comes to dating, I am only looking for Christians who take their faith seriously.

I just need to know the truth about what is possible for me at this point. If you’ve read this far, 1. Thank you so much and 2. Please don’t hesitate to hit me with biblical truth; don’t just tell me what I want to hear. If Hebrews really does mean it’s too late for me, I want to know. I’m just scared and depressed. It’s ironic though that I would be feeling this way right after I’ve been taking my faith more seriously than ever before, and after I’ve been seeing myself gradually change and think/act differently than I ever used to. (That is one of the things that makes me wonder if this is Satan messing with me/trying to scare me.) Anyways, thanks again for reading, and I’m so sorry for writing a novel. God bless.

Hi, I have been in your shoes.

Look at your fruit now and what do you see?

In Hebrews in my view from reading it.
First noting one can fall away in different situations.

In this context the Falling away is [going back to the elements that are/were truly meant to lead us into/to Christ]

Note: there are also different ways to think about "sin"

For example a continual sin is one where there has never been repentance.

And one of the first steps to not continually sinning is to repent.

Recall the passage repent and believe the Gospel.

So first question from that passage is will Jesus die again if He lives forever?
So how can He be crucified again if He lives forever....Well in my opinion He cant.

So what it's saying to me is if one decides to go back under the Law[Elementary teachings that were symbols meant to lead us to/into Christ] for righteousness.
And if they were to sin under the Law after the truth of Christ has been made known then there is no way to receive repentance.
Why because bulls and goats can never purify the conscience from their failure to keep the law. .......
Another words turning back to the law for righteousness would be stupid, not only would it keep you in perpetual sin, you would be under the penalty of it. That is, if God allowed
Permitted that.

But in my view God knows what His Love
Will accomplish if one has been born again and does not lose sight of goal.

Now remember He lives forever to INTERCEED on our behalf. Therefore if we sin we have an advocate with the father, Christ Jesus our high priest.

But this sin while we are under the rule of the New Covenant.....is not a sin where we are rejecting Jesus "crucifying Him and putting Him to open shame" as the sin of falling a away from moving forward in Christ and then to decide to go under the Law for righteousness.

That falling away is a total rejection of the one who saves you. THEREFORE How can you receive repentance if you reject the one who offers repentance.

Now to explain....salvation
One can be saved from many things. That would be a verb....

I'LL TAKE THIS UP IN PART 2



..then you see why one should move forward past the Elementary stages of learning towards maturity.

Another words there is no reason to be on your mommy's breast milk if you are 15.
That milk sustains you as a babe, but as you get older jou need meat.

The meat is not the milk.....We need to grow Spiritual muscles