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My intent of the "many words" comment is that the link you posted was little more that a long list of scriptures, without any real attempt at explaining why these passages support whatever it is your attempting to validate. Anyone can string an ad nauseam parade of scriptures, but that does little to prove anything. Sometimes, the overuse of scripture in an argument can obscure the fact that you cannot explain what they mean, and your hoping that the hearer will simply acquiesce to your point because "they quote so many scriptures that they must be right. " This is the same kind of tactic that cult practitioners do, especially those like the Jehovah's Witnesses! I've seen it a hundred times; instead of dealing with the questions about one passage, they throw out another two or three passages that can deter the conversation in another direction. (And no, I'm not implying that you are a cult practitioner!)
Mature students know better than to fall for such tactics, and, in my humble opinion, good teachers can make their point with two or three passages. Jesus never used long lists of quotations, and he was the best teacher ever! When you learn from the best, you can ignore the rest!
This is why I don't fall for the "By the way, TibiasDad, based on the context of your post, you proved the original post true" arguments; your saying that it proves it does not in fact prove it! If you would care to demonstrate how this is necessarily true, perhaps we can have a real conversation, but unless you want to accept my arguments at face value, I see no reason to accept yours or anyone else's at face value.
Doug
Well, let's just review some of the first section right here, TibiasDad.
Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?
The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.
The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.
- God issued prophecy about man eating the fruit (Genesis 2:17)
AT the time God commanded the man, Adam, not to eat of the tree
AND the consequence of disobedience is declared - that is that death of the man would result in eating from the tree
YET a command does not convey ability (see also God's Commands Distinguished From Man's Ability)
BUT the language contains a prophetic construct indicating assurance of occurrence - "for in the day that you eat" - the "for" is promissory
NOT a conditional logic construct such as "if in the day that you eat"
IN fact, the English word "for" is translated from the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki)
AND the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki) contains the meanings of these English words "that", "for", "when" (Strong's Hebrew: 3588. כִּ֗י (ki) -- that, for, when)
THEREFORE the word "when" fits where the word "for" resides in Genesis 2:17
THUS the phrase "when in the day that you eat" is an accurate translation for Genesis 2:17 (see also cross-referenceing the Hebrew word כִּ֗י [ki] definition via scripture with scripture providing the proof that [1] the translation deficiency of the word "if" for the Hebrew word כִּ֗י [ki] and [2] the translation efficiency of the word "when" for the Hebrew word כִּ֗י [ki] respecting the early chapters of Genesis)
SO this confirms the promissory nature, the prophecy of man eating the fruit, with the word "for"/"when" in Genesis 2:17
AND this imposes contextual certainty indicating God's foreknowledge over the matter described in Genesis 2:17
SO there is no free will indicated for Adam
AND the firm fact is established
THAT God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)
- Attributes/Characteristics Compared And Contrasted
- The attribute of man being created in the image according to the likeness of God
WITH a targeted result of logical deductive reasoning leveraging compare and contrast of attributes/facilities
SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)
THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam
IN particular God willpowering purported "free will" into man during the creation of Adam (see also examining the words "freewill offering" in the Old Testament)
THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God
BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)
THEREFORE it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God
- The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities
- God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature
- Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.
- Scripture does not include the mention of endowing Adam with free will
- Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9)
- Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)
THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will
- The timeline of Adam knowing good and evil
BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil
AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil
FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)
YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22
THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" (Genesis 2:17)
THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened and followed the last that he heard about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
WHICH Adam heard from Eve
FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)
SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil
AND a person does good by obeying God; on the other hand, a person does evil by disobeying God
SO free will choosing of good or choosing of evil is not the context
AND action is the context
SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will
- The pattern of "sight" around the time that Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
AND these quotations are provided in sequential order - that is chronolgically accurate
- God's only command that carried a punishment was "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die" (Genesis 2:17)
SEE the command and punishment are pronounced first
- "the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed" (Genesis 2:25)
SEE that Adam and Eve were naked and they were unashamed in their "sight"
- "The serpent said to the woman, 'You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'" (Genesis 3:4-5)
SEE the word "eyes"
- "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food" (Genesis 3:6)
SEE the word "saw"
- "and that it was a delight to the eyes" (Genesis 3:6)
SEE the word "eyes"
- "and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6)
SEE that Adam and Eve ate of the tree that was forbidden in the only command that carried a punishment
- "Then the eyes of both of them were opened" (Genesis 3:7)
SEE the word "eyes"
- "and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings" (Genesis 3:7)
SEE that Adam and Eve tried to conceal themselves, a first stage using fig leaves
- "They heard the sound of YHWH God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of YHWH God among the trees of the garden" (Genesis 3:8)
SEE that Adam and Eve tried to conceal themselves, a second stage using the trees of the garden
BUT during this second stage they tried to hide themselves from God's "sight"
- The visual acuity aspect of "sight" is VERY clear in the creation account
- These perceptive aspects of "sight" are VERY clear in the creation account (see also examining the word "saw" in Genesis 3:6)
- "attention"
- "thought"
- "focal point"
- Linguistically, logically, and spiritually, "sight" in context indicates visual acuity and perception within the creation account
- God's only command that carried a punishment was "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die" (Genesis 2:17)
- The attribute of "joining" - marriage
- Lord Jesus says a topically very profound statement of "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9)
- "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Christ and the Bride of Christ
- "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to marriage between "male and female" (creatures both)
- "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Adam and Eve, the man and the woman
- God does the joining, while, on the other hand, man and woman are only the joyful recipients
- The facility of "joining" is not attributed to man and/or woman
- The facility of "joining" is attributed to God
May the Lord abound mercy and understanding and strength and grace in we His own for the Day approaches rapidly!
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