Objectively - what if the Sabbath is true (unedited) and evolution is wrong? What are the consequences?

[BobRyan]

This is for those who reject God's Sabbath commandment either by 1- opposing it outright or 2 - claiming to affirm it while editing it because you view its unedited form to no longer be correct.

Whenever we need to choose one path or another - there is always the exercise of evaluating our choice pros vs cons. At least for those who choose that level of objectivity.

(Hint: This is NOT a thread for simply "Doubling Down")

Back to the question being asked here: First - it is a given that both pro's and con's views - affirm the fact that all saved saints (OT and NT) are under the one Gospel covenant (Gal 1:6-9) (New Covenant) found in Jer 31:31-33 where the Law of God written on the heart is the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers (Exegesis). So then the question is - what would someone evaluate their case to be if the path they have chosen against the Bible Sabbath were in fact wrong.? How do they view it or do they refuse to look at pros vs cons of their choice against an unedited still-valid Bible Sabbath? I am curious as to how they view it.

BIG RED FLAG: If one argues that they are not willing to objectively view both pro's and con's of their choice - then is this actually an admission that their view is so weak in their own estimation that it cannot stand up to their own objective review of it?? (There appear to be a number here who are not willing to take that objective view - so for them I would ask that they at least address the "big red flag" question ..( if that is at all possible for them) )​

So the question to address in this thread is -- Given that you choose to reject God's Sabbath Commandment in one of the two ways listed above - THEN

- what do you consider to be the "consequence" of being dead wrong about what the Bible teaches on this topic?
- what if your arguments so far have been flawed? and that in fact the opposite is true.?

Would you say

1. According to the Bible - even if the Sabbath commandment in its unedited form is the correct truth and I am wrong about my views - it does not matter because the Bible says it never really mattered that much. IT was always a minor detail.​

​

2. Even if God's Sabbath commandment was a major detail as given by God - and it applies to all mankind still - EVEN THEN - God did knew we would not comply and He is fine with that.​

​

3. I can think of many examples where God gave a command for people "all mankind" Is 66:23 but then it was ignored and God is pretty much ok with it - so no real consequence when that happens according to scripture. This would be just another case of that - If it turned out my current views against the Sabbath in its unedited form - are not correct.​

​

4. Some argue that "tradition" over a period of centuries set aside the 4th commandment and made a few other changes. Even if that is the right origin for the change - and even if it is dead wrong to do it - this would not be a big problem. It would just be an interesting detail to have cleared up for me when I get to heaven.​

​

5. other...​

In other words - the question being asked here - is "did you fully evaluate both scenarios? the one for and the one against" when making your choice?

If you are willing to do that evaluation - then I want to know how you view the one in favor of the Sabbath commandment being the right answer as to what the Bible is teaching.

What I am not asking on this thread is how someone who does accept that the Bible affirms the Sabbath commandment unedited - views the decision to reject it. We have a number of other threads for that.

I am also NOT asking that a person who rejects the Sabbath (in some way or another) - double down on rejecting and refuse to consider the alternatives as noted in the OP. We already have a lot of other threads here for that.

========================

Secondarily what if the Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 summary of the doctrine on origins as found in the Bible is correct - but evolution's teaching on origins for all life on Earth is dead wrong. What is the consequence in your view to evolution's origins being incorrect if that is the view that you are holding?

 

[BobRyan]

And since some here may not know what the commandment says ..

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - (for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth)

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Gen 2:1-3 Adam and Eve given the Sabbath in Eden (when - it was made a holy day, sanctified, set apart)
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Lev 23:3 - the Sabbath is a day of holy convocation

Is 58:13 - no secular activity on the Sabbath - it is the "Holy Day of the Lord"

 

[BobRyan]

I fully expect that some people will struggle to actually address with objectivity 'the alternative' and I don't mind helping with suggestions on how to directly address the point. But in the end someone may not feel comfortable with that level of objectivity so that is fine they are not being forced to engage in it if that is not what they can do at this time.

To be clear - this thread proposes the following -- and then asks for your POV given that this specific scenario is the right one.

===============================

In the Bible there is a day that God says in sanctified, blessed, made holy, set apart and called "the Sabbath" - "the Holy Day of the Lord". In the Bible God says it is the 7th day. Ex 20:10. But not everyone agrees with that so opinions may vary on what a given person chooses to do whether that be to edit/delete/keep that day or not.

In this thread we select one of the many ways people view it - and ask the question "What if this particular POV is correct?".
As per the OP the one we are testing/evaluating is the following
1. the seventh day of Gen 2:1-3, and Ex 16, and Ex 20:8-11 is the Sabbath , the Holy day of the Lord
2. It has not been edited
3. It has not been deleted
4. The ten commandments have not been deleted, abolished, done away with .. .they remain
5. The same 7 day sequence at sinai in Ex 20:8-11 is what we are seeing in Gen 2:1-3 for the creation of all life on Earth, our atmosphere our solar system.
6. So it is an entire day - set aside as a "day of holy convocation" Lev 23:3 - the 7th day of the week.
7. It is an entire day set aside such that no secular work is done on that day Is 58:13
8. It is a day of rest, worship, evangelism, time with God, and one may also relieving the suffering of others on that day.

So then clearly the doctrine on origins proposed in evolutionism's teaching - is not accurate... in fact not historically accurate in terms of "What happened in nature" in real history.

Be that as it may as we consider this particular scenario -- what are the consequences in your POV?

====================================

Given that scenario - the question this thread is exploring is "what are the consequences of that being true"?

 

[eleos1954]

This is for those who reject God's Sabbath commandment either by 1- opposing it outright or 2 - claiming to affirm it while editing it because you view its unedited form to no longer be correct.

Whenever we need to choose one path or another - there is always the exercise of evaluating our choice pros vs cons. At least for those who choose that level of objectivity.

So the question to address in this thread is -- Given that you choose to reject God's Sabbath Commandment in one of the two ways listed above

- what do you consider to be the "consequence" of being dead wrong about what the Bible teaches on this topic?
- what if your arguments so far have been flawed? and that in fact the opposite is true.?

Would you say

1. According to the Bible - even if the Sabbath commandment in its unedited form is the correct truth and I am wrong about my views - it does not matter because the Bible says it never really mattered that much. IT was always a minor detail.​

​

2. Even if God's Sabbath commandment was a major detail as given by God - and it applies to all mankind still - EVEN THEN - God did knew we would not comply and He is fine with that.​

​

3. I can think of many examples where God gave a command for people "all mankind" Is 66:23 but then it was ignored and God is pretty much ok with it - so no real consequence when that happens according to scripture. This would be just another case of that - If it turned out my current views against the Sabbath in its unedited form - are not correct.​

​

4. Some argue that "tradition" over a period of centuries set aside the 4th commandment and made a few other changes. Even if that is the right origin for the change - and even if it is dead wrong to do it - this would not be a big problem. It would just be an interesting detail to have cleared up for me when I get to heaven.​

​

5. other...​

In other words - the question being asked here - is "did you fully evaluate both scenarios? the one for and the one against" when making your choice?

If you are willing to do that evaluation - then I want to know how you view the one in favor of the Sabbath commandment being the right answer as to what the Bible is teaching.

What I am not asking on this thread is how someone who does accept that the Bible affirms the Sabbath commandment unedited - views the decision to reject it. We have a number of other threads for that.

I am also NOT asking that a person who rejects the Sabbath (in some way or another) - double down on rejecting and refuse to consider the alternatives as noted in the OP. We already have a lot of other threads here for that.

========================

Secondarily what if the Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 summary of the doctrine on origins as found in the Bible is correct - but evolution's teaching on origins for all life on Earth is dead wrong. What is the consequence in your view to evolution's origins being incorrect if that is the view that you are holding?

The 7th Day Sabbath is God's seal of authority .... establishes Him as the creator of everything and having authority over all of it

It was given by the Creator as a sign or seal of His authority. It identifies Him by name, “The LORD your God”. It identifies the realm over which He has jurisdiction, “the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them”.

Without the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord all the other commandments would fall flat .... the authority would not be there.

The 7th Day is part of His creation ... on the 7th day He established His authority as creator of all .... and we are to remember that He is the creator and has authority over everything. Nobody can change anything God created .... and yes .... He created a special day and created that day for us to acknowledge Him as the Creator of everything and enjoy His presence as creator of all ... to delight in Him.

 

[BobRyan]

The 7th Day Sabbath is God's seal of authority .... establishes Him as the creator of everything and having authority over all of it

It was given by the Creator as a sign or seal of His authority. It identifies Him by name, “The LORD your God”. It identifies the realm over which He has jurisdiction, “the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them”.

Without the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord all the other commandments would fall flat .... the authority would not be there.

ok so that starts to address the evaluation of "What if the Bible Sabbath is in fact the teaching that is dead wrong". But am trying to evaluate the opposite of that in this thread.

The 7th Day is part of His creation ... on the 7th day He established His authority as creator of all .... and we are to remember that He is the creator and has authority over everything. Nobody can change anything God created .... and yes .... He created a special day and created that day for us to acknowledge Him as the Creator of everything and enjoy His presence as creator of all ... to delight in Him.

ok but that is along the path of "why might those who reject the Bible Sabbath be wrong" - but it does not tell us how they evaluate that scenario themselves. How do they view the scenario where their view is wrong when they contrast the two options?

 

[eleos1954]

ok so that starts to address the evaluation of "What if the Bible Sabbath is in fact the teaching that is dead wrong". But am trying to evaluate the opposite of that in this thread.

ok but that is along the path of "why might those who reject the Bible Sabbath be wrong" - but it does not tell us how they evaluate that scenario themselves. How do they view the scenario where their view is wrong when they contrast the two options?

They are being deceived .... the 7th day Sabbath is a very contentious subject matter because ... as stated .... it is the authority of God being the creator .... satan does everything possible to undermine the authority of God .... so one needs to answer the question .... who is my authority? God is the only creator and the only authority ... He created the 7th day and reminds us to acknowledge that fact ... that is .... He is the only creator and the only authority. His seal on mankind and all of creation.

They need to very seriously consider deception.

 

[Bob S]

Ex19:3 Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the inhabitants of the World Israelites.”

Ex20:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

Ex34: 10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today.

5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

All of the above statements by God were addressed to "you" meaning one nation, Israel. Why is it that a few Christians want to horn in what God gave to only one nation? The question has been debated was the Sabbath command ever given to any other nation on Earth? No one has come up with any proof. In fact, much of the World's population has never even heard the word let alone been instructed as how it would be observed. The command to Israel was very special in that they were to observe it to remember their escape from slavery in Egypt. God had made Abraham a promise that his offspring would inherit the land of milk and honey and He did just as He promised. Can you imagine a group of people that were slaves for four hundred years being turned lose all at once and not having any guidance? God gave them a wonderful covenant to establish peace and order. Israel failed to receive peace, they failed to keep the covenant that would have made them a "kingdom of priests and a holy nation." Hebrews tells us that Israel never entered the Rest God had for them. Oh, for sure they became pseudo-observers of all the rituals God gave them through His Law. God withdrew His covenant with Israel, but we know He has not forsaken them.

He gave us Jesus and Jesus brought life eternal to all who believe, claim His promises and love others as Heo loves us. On the Cross Jesus cancelled the special covenant that was just for Israel and ratified the new and better covenant that is for every living soul.

 

[sparow]

This is for those who reject God's Sabbath commandment either by 1- opposing it outright or 2 - claiming to affirm it while editing it because you view its unedited form to no longer be correct.

Whenever we need to choose one path or another - there is always the exercise of evaluating our choice pros vs cons. At least for those who choose that level of objectivity.

So the question to address in this thread is -- Given that you choose to reject God's Sabbath Commandment in one of the two ways listed above

- what do you consider to be the "consequence" of being dead wrong about what the Bible teaches on this topic?
- what if your arguments so far have been flawed? and that in fact the opposite is true.?

Would you say

1. According to the Bible - even if the Sabbath commandment in its unedited form is the correct truth and I am wrong about my views - it does not matter because the Bible says it never really mattered that much. IT was always a minor detail.​

​

2. Even if God's Sabbath commandment was a major detail as given by God - and it applies to all mankind still - EVEN THEN - God did knew we would not comply and He is fine with that.​

​

3. I can think of many examples where God gave a command for people "all mankind" Is 66:23 but then it was ignored and God is pretty much ok with it - so no real consequence when that happens according to scripture. This would be just another case of that - If it turned out my current views against the Sabbath in its unedited form - are not correct.​

​

4. Some argue that "tradition" over a period of centuries set aside the 4th commandment and made a few other changes. Even if that is the right origin for the change - and even if it is dead wrong to do it - this would not be a big problem. It would just be an interesting detail to have cleared up for me when I get to heaven.​

​

5. other...​

In other words - the question being asked here - is "did you fully evaluate both scenarios? the one for and the one against" when making your choice?

If you are willing to do that evaluation - then I want to know how you view the one in favor of the Sabbath commandment being the right answer as to what the Bible is teaching.

What I am not asking on this thread is how someone who does accept that the Bible affirms the Sabbath commandment unedited - views the decision to reject it. We have a number of other threads for that.

I am also NOT asking that a person who rejects the Sabbath (in some way or another) - double down on rejecting and refuse to consider the alternatives as noted in the OP. We already have a lot of other threads here for that.

========================

Secondarily what if the Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 summary of the doctrine on origins as found in the Bible is correct - but evolution's teaching on origins for all life on Earth is dead wrong. What is the consequence in your view to evolution's origins being incorrect if that is the view that you are holding?

I think you have missed the head of the nail; most Christians would acknowledge validity of the commandments for the old covenant; but see the new covenant as not including them, and having its own set of commandments. The question should be, will following a fake, make believe, new covenant be fatal. It will be Lawlessness that will be fatal and failing to overcome.

 

[BobRyan]

most Christians would acknowledge validity of the commandments for the old covenant;

True. But that is not my question ( I will update the OP to make sure this is clear).

My question is about the fact that all saved saints (OT and NT) are under the one Gospel covenant (Gal 1:6-9) found in Jer 31:31-33 where the Law of God written on the heart is the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers (Exegesis). So then the question is - what would someone evaluate their case to be if the path they have chosen against the Bible Sabbath were in fact wrong. How do they view it or do they refuse to look at pros vs cons of their choice against and unedited still-valid Bible Sabbath? I am curious as to how they view it.

but see the new covenant as not including them, and having its own set of commandments.

fine - but my question (starts with "Objectively") and is still asking how they would view the "cons" of that view - so then how they would view it if Christ's quote from the Law of Moses in Matt 22 - where he quotes
1. Deut 6:4 "Love God with all your heart"
2. Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
(and the Jews agreed with him that these are the two greatest one BTW)

means that "all the law and the prophets are established on firm foundation" and that specifically the Sabbath in its unedited non-deleted form applies to all mankind to this very day as per Jer 31:31-33 (and Heb 8:6-12) remains unchanged as per the view of the unchanged Bible-Sabbath keeping view of it posted repeatedly on this forum.

If you wish to refuse to answer the question that the OP is asking - I have added another one that you might be more willing to address --

BIG RED FLAG: If one argues that they are not willing to objectively view both pro's and con's of their choice - then is this actually an admission that their view is so weak in their own estimation that it cannot stand up to their own objective review of it?? (There appear to be a number here who are not willing to take that objective view - so for them I would ask that they at least address the "big red flag" question ..( if that is at all possible for them) )

The question should be, will following a fake, make believe, new covenant be fatal.

fake make believe is not honestly evaluating the cons since almost all scholars admit that it is "Still a sin" to take God's name in vain and this is not "fake or make believe" it is a fact that they view it that way ... so we can ask people if they are even willing to evaluate the con's of their own choice.

It will be Lawlessness that will be fatal and failing to overcome.

Is it only "failing to overcome" if the Sabbath is unedited - but it is "not failing" if it is edited to point to week-day 1 in your view?

 

[BobRyan]

Ex19:3 Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the inhabitants of the World Israelites.”

Ex20:
...

All of the above statements by God were addressed to "you" meaning one nation, Israel. Why is it that a few Christians want to horn in what God gave to only one nation?

In all the details in the title and OP you are not addressing - please note that we start with the word "Objectively" with this thread. (There's the rub). Have you considered an objective reply???

Or is that "Doubling down" your way of evaluating your position by looking at the case where your suggestions are not correct when you suggest that if God delivered Israel from Egypt then it must mean that taking God's name in vain is only wrong if Jews do it?

Or are you saying that you are not ready for that level of objectivity.?

In that case I have added another option for you in the OP -- so you can at least be on topic for this thread --

BIG RED FLAG: If one argues that they are not willing to objectively view both pro's and con's of their choice - then is this actually an admission that their view is so weak in their own estimation that it cannot stand up to their own objective review of it?? (There appear to be a number here who are not willing to take that objective view - so for them I would ask that they at least address the "big red flag" question ..( if that is at all possible for them) )

The question has been debated was the Sabbath command ever given to any other nation on Earth?

Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping Is 56:6-8
All mankind specified as the scope for Sabbath keeping Is 66:23
Made for mankind Mark 2:27.

often quoted for you - never quoted by you.

Are you saying that you are not yet ready to objectively evaluate your own position by stating the pro's and con's of your POV??

 

[Bob S]

BR commented:

In all the details in the title and OP you are not addressing - not that we start with "Objectively" with this thread. Have you considered an objective reply???

The opening posts are lecture oriented and I am not here to debate Evolution and the "if" truth of the Sabbath. I am on the forum to provide scripture that confirms God has given Jews first and then all mankind a new covenant to live under. I should be proven without a doubt that man today is subject to the ritual laws given at Sinai before ever entering into a discussion of "ifs".

Pointing a finger at me and remember the four pointing to yourself.

Or is that "Doubling down" your way of evaluating your position by looking at the case where your suggestions are not correct when you suggest that if God delivered Israel from Egypt then it must mean that taking God's name in vain is only wrong if Jews do it?

Pray tell us how you claim to have come to that Hypothesis?

Or are you saying that you are not ready for that level of objectivity.?

Is that a question or just your off the cuff blabber?

In that case I have added another option for you in the OP -- so you can at least be on topic for this thread --

Before you lambast me for my liter, could I suggest you clean your own?

Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping Is 56:6-8
All mankind specified as the scope for Sabbath keeping Is 66:23
Made for mankind Mark 2:27. often quoted for you - never quoted by you.

Because they are not relevant to New Covenant Christians or for that matter anyone on Earth. Is 56 is not a command so we rule it out. It does not apply. Is 66 is preceeded by Is 65 where it is discovered that old Isaiah had a much different opinion of Heaven that what is taught in the New Testament. Is 65 makes Is 66 untrustworthy. Why is it you won't address Is 65 or Is 66:24????

Are you saying that you are not yet ready to objectively evaluate your own position by stating the pro's and con's of your POV??

+More blabber!

In all the details in the title and OP you are not addressing - not that we start with "Objectively" with this thread. Have you considered an objective reply???

There you go pointing fingers.

Or is that "Doubling down" your way of evaluating your position by looking at the case where your suggestions are not correct when you suggest that if God delivered Israel from Egypt then it must mean that taking God's name in vain is only wrong if Jews do it?

Duh! You must like that statement. I have read it twice now in the same post.

Or are you saying that you are not ready for that level of objectivity.?

Sticks and stones... Can't answer my posts, so you go into attack mode. Great debating Bob.

In that case I have added another option for you in the OP -- so you can at least be on topic for this thread --

Actually, Bob, I have had enough nonsense for one day.

 

[BobRyan]

In all the details in the title and OP you are not addressing - please note that we start with the word "Objectively" with this thread. (There's the rub). Have you considered an objective reply???

Or is that "Doubling down" your way of evaluating your position by looking at the case where your suggestions are not correct when you suggest that if God delivered Israel from Egypt then it must mean that taking God's name in vain is only wrong if Jews do it?

The opening posts are lecture oriented

No the OP is calling for objectivity and it even gives those who are unnable to be objective another idea to address and still be on topic.

Details still matter.

and I am not here to debate Evolution and the "if" truth of the Sabbath.

in this thread you are not being asked to debate anything.

Again "details matter".

You are being asked to objectively evaluate your own ideas without simply "doubling down and ignoring the subject of the thread".

This may be more than you are willing to do at this point in life.

 

[BobRyan]

I am not here to debate Evolution and the "if" truth of the Sabbath.

I wold never have guessed that you are not here to debate the Sabbath.

 

[sparow]

True. But that is not my question ( I will update the OP to make sure this is clear).

My question is about the fact that all saved saints (OT and NT) are under the one Gospel covenant (Gal 1:6-9) found in Jer 31:31-33 where the Law of God written on the heart is the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers (Exegesis). So then the question is - what would someone evaluate their case to be if the path they have chosen against the Bible Sabbath were in fact wrong. How do they view it or do they refuse to look at pros vs cons of their choice against and unedited still-valid Bible Sabbath? I am curious as to how they view it.

fine - but my question (starts with "Objectively") and is still asking how they would view the "cons" of that view - so then how they would view it if Christ's quote from the Law of Moses in Matt 22 - where he quotes
1. Deut 6:4 "Love God with all your heart"
2. Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
(and the Jews agreed with him that these are the two greatest one BTW)

means that "all the law and the prophets are established on firm foundation" and that specifically the Sabbath in its unedited non-deleted form applies to all mankind to this very day as per Jer 31:31-33 (and Heb 8:6-12) remains unchanged as per the view of the unchanged Bible-Sabbath keeping view of it posted repeatedly on this forum.

If you wish to refuse to answer the question that the OP is asking - I have added another one that you might be more willing to address --




fake make believe is not honestly evaluating the cons since almost all scholars admit that it is "Still a sin" to take God's name in vain and this is not "fake or make believe" it is a fact that they view it that way ... so we can ask people if they are even willing to evaluate the con's of their own choice.

Is it only "failing to overcome" if the Sabbath is unedited - but it is "not failing" if it is edited to point to week-day 1 in your view?

I believe the Law/covenant cannot be changed. The only difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is new administration, more detail, and higher standard and definition of righteousness. What makes the new covenant better is God's participation in it. I am sure there is a statement that says if one Law is broke all Laws are broke; editing scripture is to oppose God. R22:18,19.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe the Law/covenant cannot be changed. The only difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is new administration, more detail, and higher standard and definition of righteousness. What makes the new covenant better is God's participation in it. I am sure there is a statement that says if one Law is broke all Laws are broke; editing scripture is to oppose God. R22:18,19.

No doubt - but if you hold the view that the Sabbath commandment is no longer for mankind (in its unedited form) -- and that turns out to be wrong as the Bible Sabbath groups keep pointing out - what are the implications in your view of it? what does it mean?

I assume we all read the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant with the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers - written on the heart. (the one and only Gospel as Gal 1:6-9 points out)

 

[sparow]

No doubt - but if you hold the view that the Sabbath commandment is no longer for mankind (in its unedited form) -- and that turns out to be wrong as the Bible Sabbath groups keep pointing out - what are the implications in your view of it? what does it mean?

I assume we all read the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant with the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers - written on the heart. (the one and only Gospel as Gal 1:6-9 points out)

Considering a hypothetical, that I believed the seventh day is Sunday, as per many new calendars, I would not see the problem as you do; I would need to be God to answer your question; But I see the problem as a fake covenant wherein Sunday is kept; should I realise that the seventh day (Saturday) should be kept, the realisation would be incomplete because keeping the Sabbath in the frame of a fake covenant would be useless.

The seventh day Sabbath is greater than a day to be kept.

Isn't Gal 1:6-9 where Paul threatens to curse Peter and James of the Jerusalem church? What is written on the heart and mind is not ten but rather something that is not numbered, like a personality of righteousness

 

[rturner76]

Observing the Sabbath on Saturday is not what will make you right in the eyes of God but a relationship with Christ in faith.

 

[sparow]

Observing the Sabbath on Saturday is not what will make you right in the eyes of God but a relationship with Christ in faith.

But it is not one or the other Faith requires obedience to his Commandments; keeping Sunday is worse than not keeping the seventh day, because it is in obedience to God's arch-enemy, the False Prophet.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Observing the Sabbath on Saturday is not what will make you right in the eyes of God but a relationship with Christ in faith.

Yes, God seeks a relationship with us and how God “knows” us is through obedience 1 John 2:3-5 Obedience to Him is a relationship with God and especially the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20 because that is the day God sanctified and set aside as the day to honor Him doing His ways. Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:10. What better way to get to know someone than to spend time with them. God only asks for one day and the others are set aside to get our work done. Exodus 20:9 Does the day matter? God would not have asked if it didn’t. Cain and Abel are a good example. Both made sacrifices, one the way God asked, the other the way he wanted, God only accepted one.

But it is not one or the other Faith requires obedience to his Commandments; keeping Sunday is worse than not keeping the seventh day, because it is in obedience to God's arch-enemy, the False Prophet.

True, but I do not think everyone who has worshipped on Sunday will not be saved. It’s only when we know the Truth and go away from that Truth when it becomes dangerous. We are fortunate to have access to God’s Word and we are told to seek the Truth from His Word, we are sanctified from the Truth John 17:17 and we must worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24. All of God’s commandments are Truth. Psalm 119:151. We are so blessed to have God’s Word to be a light to our path. Psalms 119:105

 

[BobRyan]

Considering a hypothetical, that I believed the seventh day is Sunday, as per many new calendars, I would not see the problem as you do;

ok - let's hear that explained

BTW I am not trying to argue against your position (or anyone's position on this thread) -- the thread is for those who either say the Sabbath was deleted or that it was edited to point to weekday-1. They are being asked to show their own evaluation of the pro's vs con's of their POV.

( the OP gives TWO options for rejecting my view -- one is to edit the Sabbath but the other is to delete it as not applicable -- you are free to choose anyone you wish)

This thread is asking the question of those who reject the 7th day Sabbath as defined in scripture.

I would need to be God to answer your question;

You would need to be God to objectively evaluate the pro's and con's of your own decision? seriously???

The seventh day Sabbath is greater than a day to be kept.

Agreed - but still we have these texts

Lev 23:2-3 " a DAY of holy convocation"
Is 58:13 "THE Holy DAY of the LORD" where no secular activity is allowed
Ex 20:10 "the SEVENTH DAY is the Sabbath of the LORD"

Isn't Gal 1:6-9 where Paul threatens to curse Peter and James of the Jerusalem church? What is written on the heart and mind is not ten but rather something that is not numbered, like a personality of righteousness

Paul says in Eph 6:2 that "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise' -- which is an appeal not only to the ten but to the sequence of the ten