Obeying your parents in the Orthodox tradition

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Okay....it's going to be tricky for me to post this without giving too much detail. I hope I can communicate clearly....

I know of a very dysfunctional family with 3 adult children (all children live away from home, 2 of them are married). This family is protestant with the exception of one of their sons, who converted to Orthodoxy years ago (which did NOT go over well with the family, but that is another story...). In a nutshell, the mother of this family is a Diva (must be at the center of everyone's attention or else) who loves to use guilt and other forms of emotional manipulation to get her kids to do what she wants. The father is a passive guy who only steps into the fights the mom starts when things get out of control. His way of dealing with any conflicts between the parents and adult kids is to use scripture to manipulate them . His favorite one to use is the scripture about how children are to obey their parents in the Lord (somewhere in the OT....not taking time to look it up now). Unfortunately, when he does this, everyone knows they are being manipulated again, but on one in the family is sure of how to refute this.

What I would like to know is this: In Orthodoxy, how much credence do we have to give that one Bible verse as adults? I have no problem with the idea of respecting parents, but when this verse is used for abusive purposes, I'd like to know how to refute it from an Orthodox standpoint (or at least from a standpoint that does not contradict Orthodoxy....). Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Michael G]

What about Ephesians 6:4?

 

[E.C.]

In my opinion, abusing Bible verses is just plain evil.

Ephesians 6:2 sounds good.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

In my opinion, abusing Bible verses is just plain evil.

Ephesians 6:2 sounds good.

I agree that it's evil.

I'll look up that verse. Any other comments are welcome.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Spit the verses Right back:

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

 

[Michael G]

If you are going to quote Ephesians Chapter 6, as my mother did to me growing up, make sure you read the entire chapter!

Ephesians 6
Children and Parents
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”[a]
4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.
Bondservants and Masters

5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; 6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
The Whole Armor of God

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
A Gracious Greeting

21 But that you also may know my affairs and how I am doing, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, will make all things known to you; 22 whom I have sent to you for this very purpose, that you may know our affairs, and that he may comfort your hearts.
23 Peace to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

 

[choirfiend]

Loving your parents, I daresay, has NOT refute the "He who loves ___ more than me..."


But there is the "he shall leave his mother and father and be joined to a wife" stuff. Obedience means IN LOVE, and with SALVATION as the end goal on the part of both parties, parent, and child. When that is NOT the case, as is often in this fallen world, unless one had the strict asceticism of complete obedience (most often found in the monastic world--which has a lot of checks and balances), there may be times when disobeying your parents IN LOVE is necessary in order to fulfill Christ's commandments.


The hard thing, of course, is having the discernment necessary to tell if you are acting with Christ in mind, or with self-will and pride in mind.

 

[Akathist]

I think that it is better to just talk calmly and with the goal of creating as much peace as is possible rather then getting into a scriptural debate.

I know of a situation where an adult Orthodox convert was abused emotionally and a bit physically by their mother. The Priests comments about how to handle current conflicts was just as I said in the paragraph as well. "If at all possible, as far as you are concerned, be at peace with all people." Work at forgiving, be at peace but at the same time, setting some appropriate boundaries. By boundaries, things like not agreeing to all of the mother's demands but doing so in as nice a fashion as possible, with the focus on maintaining peace if possible.

Another idea related to this is the concept that someone who is difficult to deal with is potentially someone who could be very very good for one's soul if one works at building virtues instead of working to change the other person.

 

[buzuxi02]

Lets not forget Colossians 3.21

 

[rusmeister]

Still, all other things being equal, it's better not to refute the Scripture here - obedience is a key Christian virtue.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Still, all other things being equal, it's better not to refute the Scripture here - obedience is a key Christian virtue.

Yes, I know. However, when someone's demands and fits of rage causes emotional, psychological, and spiritual damage, I think it is well within our right (and our responsibility) to set boundaries and not allow ourselves to be used for evil.

I guess i don't really expect some people to understand...especially if they do not come from abusive homes. My Matushka is a psychotherapist. I think I'll try asking her about it. Thanks for the responses so far.

And Michael: I definitely see your point. Often people use pieces of scripture to try to prove something, and simply ignore the parts that keep it in context.

 

[Akathist]

Yes, I know. However, when someone's demands and fits of rage causes emotional, psychological, and spiritual damage, I think it is well within our right (and our responsibility) to set boundaries and not allow ourselves to be used for evil.

I guess i don't really expect some people to understand...especially if they do not come from abusive homes. My Matushka is a psychotherapist. I think I'll try asking her about it. Thanks for the responses so far.

And Michael: I definitely see your point. Often people use pieces of scripture to try to prove something, and simply ignore the parts that keep it in context.

I started to edit my post above as I was really tired when I wrote it and I can see it is unclear. But here is what I meant.

I think that the person should set boundaries with abusive people even if they are one's parents. But as Christians, I strongly believe that these boundaries need to be set in a loving way. This means that one would avoid a conflict to the extent they are capable and to behave in a way that offers as much peace as possible.

Example: If over for a family dinner the mother starts to insult her adult daughter. The daughter could have the boundary that is basically: "I will not just sit and listen to abusive words directed toward me or others I love." But that boundary does not have to be verbally expressed. Instead the daughter could report that she does not feel well (which is true, wellness can be a psychological state or emotional state not just physical) and leave.

If the abuse is a constant thing, the daughter might withdraw giving her time to her mother and might stop going to family dinners and might screen phone calls from her mother.

The secular world might suggest that the daughter confront her mother, etc. I am suggesting that this is not a very Christian way to go. Instead, I suggest for her own wellbeing that she withdraw from the relationship with her mother without really burning any bridges. But to continue to pray for her.

Remember, how we treat others plays a huge role in evangelism. If in the face of abuse, the daughter is as loving as possible and forgiving, this is a great testement to the faith.

However we are all responsible for our physical and mental health and therefore, I suggest not just sitting and taking abuse.

My own mother has been abusive to me in the past. She did something really hurtful to me after I became Orthodox (but unrelated to my conversion.) At the time, my first reaction was to cut her out permenantly from my life as I said "I am sick of her hurting me." My priest told me to go and apologize to her for the confrontation I had given her when she hurt me. (old ways die hard). I was very unhappy with this direction, but it was a wonderful opportunity for spiritual growth. Just because I was sorry for telling her off does not mean that I will become a willing victim of hurtful behavior. I didn't tell her this of course. I have continued to pray for her and right after this bad event I lit a candle for her at Church for a month. (We fight not against flesh and blood but principalities...... remember to keep up the spiritual warfare.)

What i have noticed after this event is that she has started to become more interested in her Christian walk and is going back to her protestant Church. She has also not repeated the same behavior toward me, at least not yet but her old habit probably die hard too.

My priest said: "Your mother is good for your soul, don't forget that when she mistreats you." (But at the same time he approved of my screening her phone calls when needed and told me that it is fine to not give her everythig she wants and to say "no" as long as I do so nicely.)

 

[Kristos]

I just try to do it. That's the main thing I control. Making an issue of it will probably get no where.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, I know. However, when someone's demands and fits of rage causes emotional, psychological, and spiritual damage, I think it is well within our right (and our responsibility) to set boundaries and not allow ourselves to be used for evil.

I guess i don't really expect some people to understand...especially if they do not come from abusive homes. My Matushka is a psychotherapist. I think I'll try asking her about it. Thanks for the responses so far.

And Michael: I definitely see your point. Often people use pieces of scripture to try to prove something, and simply ignore the parts that keep it in context.

Scripture can be made to say anything, if quoted out of context.

 

[rusmeister]

Yes, I know. However, when someone's demands and fits of rage causes emotional, psychological, and spiritual damage, I think it is well within our right (and our responsibility) to set boundaries and not allow ourselves to be used for evil.

That's why I said, "All other things being equal..."