Obessing over the non essentials

[RichardT]

I would encourage you to read or reread James 3 (The Untamable Tongue)
What comes off our tongue brother comes from our hearts.
We are all guilty of this, but we must show that we are different by how we control ourselfs. This would be a sign of obedients to God.

Be gracious brother

Once again, I don't regret judging error atall.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I had thoughts about Pharisees when I view denominations and movements. "A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself" (A.W. Tozer). Those who similar to Pharisees' attitudes are those who magnifies the faults of those who based others on appearance and diminishes their graces, while they promote their doctrines.

Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center. Appearance is one thing but fruit of the Spirit is the other. "You should not judge", is not the same as "fruit inspector", or "discerning true and false teachings". People who don't discern are those who are "ignorance". Its really interesting about people are mixing "judging" and "discerning". Do not have a tunnel vision" based on their teachings alone. You need to look at their whole being. Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions". Nothing holy and genuine will be done in someone's life until their will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. This is between the believer and God. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with minor doctrine issues.

 

[spiersdodgerblue]

Well good for you, You like millions of others can use the internet for research and you can as we can also see cut and paste.

If you read the guys post he said "only 10% on here are Christians". Who made him God, knowing the hearts of men? This from a professed Christian, to other professed Christians. This my brother is a Hypocrite! He is not God. God and God alone knows the heart of each and every man. I did not use the verse wrong or twist it.

You see discernment, I see judgment of souls.
Who is he teaching or edifiying? Nobody!

Thanks for all the research though RichardT

 

[Abbadon]

You have to believe that Christ was the only Son of God, and that he died for you, to save your sin. It is the ONLY way to get to heaven. Works plus faith doesn't cut it.

But then it doesn't matter if a Christian also believes in evolution, or chooses to worship God through liturgy.

The "non-essentials" are important, if the entire council of God isn't preached, then the churches will lead into apostacy and modernism.

If non-essential stuff mattered then we descend into a religion based on works or a form of Gnosticism (if the "works" are simply memorizing a few individual's interpretation of the Bible).

In general, we are all too judgmental. In general, we know but we don't obey.

Amen.

I do not point fingers at people. I point fingers at organisations, intitutions, congregations. I also agree that I can be legalistic or hypocritical at times, but I don't regret exposing error.

Now arunma will come to say that he wants to expose my "Geocentricity" error, except the only problem is that he will be unable to prove Geocentricity wrong with scripture. Although, as fundamental as I am, I don't see Geocentricity as too much of an issue since it is possible to state that when the sun moves in scripture, that this is relative motion only.

You are free to believe in your geocentric cosmology because it isn't belief in this or that idea that saves us, it's faith in Christ. People here need to realize the consequences of what that means. No, it doesn't mean that we're free to sin, but it's no longer about what church a person attends. Every church inspired by Christ will do works, and it's easy to accuse them of basing thier religion on works. Every church will worship in the way that brings them to God. God is Husband, Lord, Liberator, Creator -- all different words and ideas, but still expressing the same truth. As long as the works or the reasoning behind them are not sinful, and as long as we realize that these works are not what's saving us but instead that it is Christ that is saving us, it does not matter what works we do.

Once again, I don't regret judging error atall.

But what about the possibility of judging another's action inspired by the Holy Spirit as wrong because it is something the Holy Spirit wouldn't lead you to do?

 

[JacobHall86]

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know what you were asking, I thought you were asking what was required to be saved for some reason.

The essentials:

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0160.htm

Actually judging by Numbers, the better link is..........


http://www.sbc.net/bfm/default.asp

 

[Rion]

This is why I'm looking at another denomination since my previous church has become... worldly. It's sad, really.

Also, to the guy who said you have to not believe in evolution to not undermine faith: that's wrong and that sort of speech is what has turned many away from the faith. In fact, that sort of nonsense spread by both Athiests and Y.E.C. that turned my OCD into Scrupulosity. You can disagree with it, but do not force people to accept something that isn't needed for salvation.

 

[RichardT]

I had thoughts about Pharisees when I view denominations and movements. "A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself" (A.W. Tozer). Those who similar to Pharisees' attitudes are those who magnifies the faults of those who based others on appearance and diminishes their graces, while they promote their doctrines.

Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center. Appearance is one thing but fruit of the Spirit is the other. "You should not judge", is not the same as "fruit inspector", or "discerning true and false teachings". People who don't discern are those who are "ignorance". Its really interesting about people are mixing "judging" and "discerning". Do not have a tunnel vision" based on their teachings alone. You need to look at their whole being. Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions". Nothing holy and genuine will be done in someone's life until their will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. This is between the believer and God. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with minor doctrine issues.

I like how you have misued scripture to say that all denominations are correct and somehow relative.

 

[RichardT]

If non-essential stuff mattered then we descend into a religion based on works or a form of Gnosticism (if the "works" are simply memorizing a few individual's interpretation of the Bible).

What? How is this possible? I'm not talking about memorizing interpretations* I'm talking about studying and applying the word of God.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I like how you have misued scripture to say that all denominations are correct and somehow relative.

The point was, how do YOU know which denomination is "right"? If someone or a denomination or movement tells me that my salvation is not true... Then, they don't know my heart as God knows. People often judge based on their doctrine rather than spiritual. (I myself catch myself doing at times). Self-righteousness is terrible among Christian community because it is very naturally that we judge by what or/and who we are because it is usually smug satisfaction with self. Self-righteousness also leads to self-satisfaction accompanied by willful ignorance.

The Holy Spirit (through Jesus Christ) is the final authority. When Jesus said that the Comforter is coming, He was saying: "The Comforter will not come to stand on His own, to speak on His own authority. The Holy Spirit manifests Christ into our human spirit, not to our physical eyes. The Holy Spirit gave me assurance of my faith and doctrines I follow. No Church, No Denomination, No pastors or anyone can do this for me. Holy Spirit is the ONLY person who can do this through the Word of God.

 

[RichardT]

The point was, how do YOU know which denomination is "right"?

The bible

 

[JimfromOhio]

The bible

I don't worship the Bible but rather worship the AUTHOR of the Bible (I didn't say KJV).

As a Christian, we don't need intelligence to decide because we have the Holy Spirit that convicts us to listen rather than focusing on our own pride of reasonings. The Holy Spirit dwells in me with all the power and gifts of God, necessary to enable me to walk the noble, spiritual, Son-like life with God. I can have GREAT knowledge but if I don't have spiritual wisdom, my knowledge is worthless. Someone has said "The wisest person in the world is the person who knows the most about God and place the Bible as the most important book in the world." So, I should be this wise Christian, who is committed into action of reading, putting faith in the Word, and surrender to the Holy Spirit so that I can learn from the heart. When Jesus said that the Comforter is coming, He was saying: "The Comforter will not come to stand on His own, to speak on His own authority.

Am I studying the Bible for myself and observing God's Word?

Is my personal Bible study a daily discipline for my spiritual growth?

The purpose for reading the Bible is to change me as I read, believe and obey.

The concept is this: The Holy Spirit guided writers of the books in the Bible so that the Holy Spirit can teach the readers. The Holy Spirit is the source that Christ promised me and I am to submit myself to the Holy Spirit as I submit myself to Jesus and His Father.

Through the Word of God, I have learned great importance of spiritual decision-the act of faith (those who understand the concept of faith) by submitting my entire future according to God's will, not mine. Is the Bible in error, or do we just have a faulty understanding of faith? What is the true nature and source of faith?

 

[RichardT]

I don't worship the Bible but rather worship the AUTHOR of the Bible (I didn't say KJV).

And I said I worshipped the bible when?

"The wisest person in the world is the person who knows the most about God and place the Bible as the most important book in the world."

The bible IS the most important book in the world.

Am I studying the Bible for myself and observing God's Word?

Is my personal Bible study a daily discipline for my spiritual growth?

The purpose for reading the Bible is to change me as I read, believe and obey.

Right

The concept is this: The Holy Spirit guided writers of the books in the Bible so that the Holy Spirit can teach the readers. The Holy Spirit is the source that Christ promised me and I am to submit myself to the Holy Spirit as I submit myself to Jesus and His Father.

Right

Through the Word of God, I have learned great importance of spiritual decision-the act of faith (those who understand the concept of faith) by submitting my entire future according to God's will, not mine. Is the Bible in error, or do we just have a faulty understanding of faith? What is the true nature and source of faith?

Yes you are right, let God's will be done, not mine.

 

[JimfromOhio]

And I said I worshipped the bible when?

Let's say... I made an "assumption" based on reading your POSTS.

 

[RichardT]

Let's say... I made an "assumption" based on reading your POSTS.

Well this assumption is absolutely wrong, try again.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Well this assumption is absolutely wrong, try again.

Good... that will be a lesson to you when you dispute people regarding doctrines.

 

[RichardT]

Good... that will be a lesson to you when you dispute people regarding doctrines.

Saying I worship the bible for believing it is the inspired Word of God is as silly as saying I worship the pastor for listening to him preach.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Saying I worship the bible for believing it is the inspired Word of God is as silly as saying I worship the pastor for listening to him preach.

The bottom line is what the Bible says (The Holy Spirit is the Author (Inspired)). 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Thessalonians 4:8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

Its not about translations nor teachers (pastor). We are to focus on the Holy Spirit who help us discern the doctrines.

 

[RichardT]

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I really like this verse, thank you for quoting it.

 

[Abbadon]

What? How is this possible? I'm not talking about memorizing interpretations* I'm talking about studying and applying the word of God.

The way many here talk, it ultimately boils down to that -- many act as though it's not the message that matter, it's how it's specifically written.

If one has a preference for the King James Version, fine -- But when they act like someone isn't saved because they learned the same message about Christ through a different translation, that's Bibliolatry.

If someone believes that "day" in the creation account was refering to days on earth and not heaven, no problem -- But when they question other's faith in Christ, that's actually one of the things Gnostics actually did.

If someone believes that we're saved by faith, not works, they're correct -- they're being hypocritical when they say that others that believe in the same fundamentals are trying to be saved by works just because they've been called to different works.

KJV-onlyism, YECism, and and so on are doctrines. It's just fine for us to have doctrines so we can piece together a worldview to maintain our sanity, because we're free in Christ. But when someone says "the doctrines I chose are better than yours" without truely examining the other's belief in those doctrines, it can and has turned people away from Christ. If the doctrine in question isn't directly related to Christ or salvation, then it is non-essential.

Studying and applying the Bible is good. Realize that the Holy Spirit calls some people to different understandings of some verses. Rich, are heliocentrists going to hell? No. While you've not gone after anyone in a while, this just is an example. If you said "you cannot get into heaven without believing in geocentricism," you'd be placing a doctrine over Christ. The Bible uses artistic language frequently, and people think differently. We are all going to end up with differing views. But as long as we realize that Christ is what matters, then it's going to be OK.

This isn't just directed at you, obviously. You've calmed down some over time.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center.

That is far from being a Biblical statement. If a person has a devil's doctrine such as you need works to be saved and we use the Bible to reject that how is that being man centered? The Bible warns us of bad doctrine and to speak out against it. You would rather shut us up and disobey God?

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.​

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.​