O/F OSAS vs. fall from grace

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Wow Ben I raelly think you have written words of TRUE wisdom! Wish I could have put it as well as you have. Since I can't I won't even try but I will say that I agree with basicly all the points you have made atleast with my first read over of all your nice long posts that contain very good information. God bless you and everyone reading this thread and my the Holy Spirit guide us all to understanding God's word.

 

[Ben johnson]

but it says there are only different MEASURES of faith given, not different types of faith.

Paul says, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing..." THIS "faith" is presented as if it is given to one and not to another. Or do you believe ALL spiritual gifts are available to EACH believer? Will EVERYONE prophesy?

No, there is no difference except you limit God's power.

It is not I that does anything, beyond striving to understand what the Word says.

No where ever will you find in my view, or anyone's that is simlar to mine, saying you can coast through the christian life.

If salvation is IMPOSED and MAINTAINEDentirely by God, apart from ourselves, how would that position be different from someone who believes in "coasting"?

That's not my stance so please don't put words in my mouth. God saves, humans don't. You're saying we create our salvation by choosing him. (No, I'm reading "for by {God's} grace are you saved through {your} faith". The Bible seems to say "salvation for all who WILL BELIEVE") The accepting of an invitation doesn't validate it. You can accept all you want, but if you're not invited, you're not going. So again, please don't put words in my mouth. You are able to have an opinoin, but NOT when it involves distorting mine. That's bearing false witness...

If you feel I have born false witness against you, then I would have to ask your forgiveness; I didn't mean to.

I just wonder, if you think God doesn't invite EVERYONE, then how do you interpret verses like Rom5:18, where the 1st "ALL MEN" is "PAS ANTHROPOS" (all-men-everyone-the-world), and the 2nd "ALL MEN" is "PAS ANTHROPOS" (all-men-everyone-the-world)? How about 1Tim2:1-4? Verse 4 says "He desires ALL MEN to be saved". How does this work in "election"? If He has elected some but not all, then He certainly wouldn't desire ALL men to be saved, would He?

If some are predestined-for-salvation, how could ANYONE ever FALL from salvation? How do you interpret verses that specifically speak of "falling-from-salvation"? (Click here to read my post listing some of them...)

Do you understand what I've been saying about the parable in Matt22, where everyone ended up being invited, but only those who accepted AND clothed themselves with righteousness became the "chosen"? Those who were invited, but did not accept---do you believe that, according to the parable, they were still saved?

We agree perfectly that "there is no work by us involved in our salvation". It seems that what we disagree on, is the premise that "the work of salvation, done sufficiently and completely on the Cross, is recieved by belief (faith), and His presence in our hearts IS our salvation". How much of this is disagreement?

 

[Ben johnson]

Hello, Project86. (Wonder what that means?)

I post here contending for the faith, striving to teach and learn more from the Bible. I absolutely do not want to engage in "factions disputes and contentions". If anything I write has blessed someone else, then I too am blessed; and I give the credit and glory to Him who deserves it---Jesus.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Ben Johnson, Don't know if you know it but I sent you a private message. I posted my private e-mail so you could send me your salvation paper. I was wanting to read it and study it if that's ok. By the way the nick is the name of a Christian "rock" band.

 

[LouisBooth]

"THIS "faith" is presented as if it is given to one and not to another. Or do you believe ALL spiritual gifts are available to EACH believer? Will EVERYONE prophesy? "

in some extent yes, they are. Do you not believe all christians have discernment? Can not all christians understand God's word. According to your argument they can't.

"I just wonder, if you think God doesn't invite EVERYONE"

I invite people to my parties that I know for 100% surity they will not come. Its a very simliar reason. God know your nature and if you will choose him or not.

"If some are predestined-for-salvation, how could ANYONE ever FALL from salvation? How do you interpret verses that specifically speak of "falling-from-salvation"? "

They can't. I have believed in OSAS for some time now and discussed it with you. No need to go back into it again.

"How about 1Tim2:1-4? Verse 4 says "He desires ALL MEN to be saved". How does this work in "election"? "

Do you think ALL of God's utmost desires are met? If you think so then what about Satan. God allows people to turn away, its call free will being married with God's soverenty. the result is predestination. Paul believed in it according to what he wrote about Israel in romans, so why shouldn't I?

"Those who were invited, but did not accept---do you believe that, according to the parable, they were still saved?
"

I don't think this is about salvation, thus its placement in the book of matt right after the parable of tenants, and paying taxes and marrage. Its about God's mercy and God's soverngty.

 

[Ben johnson]

so you could send me your salvation paper. I was wanting to read it and study it if that's ok.

That's perfectly OK. And if you catch any spelling or grammer errors, or WORSE Scripture mis-quotes (yeah I just caught one! Was trying to cite 2Jn1:8-9, but it very clearly said, 1:1:8-9! :o ), I will be EXTREMELY grateful. Might even spring for a cheeseburger at Micky's!

Hey, Louis--- do you know how to quote stuff? Just type: &#091quote&#093 what-you-wanna-quote (you can use the mouse to hilight and copy-paste) &#091/quote&#093. Do it just like I just did, and it will quote. Likewise, &#091b&#093will bold anything typed here&#091/b&#093 and after this stuff will NOT be bolded. Replace "b" with "u" for underline, and with "i" for itallics.

Just in case ya' didn' know...

 

[LouisBooth]

"Just in case ya' didn' know... "

yeah, I do, I choose not to use it...even though I know its always there, but I'll never choose differently hehehehe..

 

[Ben johnson]

Louis, you oughtta try postin' over at LBMB. They make you use HTML! &#060blockquote&#062what-you-wanna-quote&#060/blockquote&#062. Criminy...

And THEN it only INDENTS the quote---no box, no grey color, nuttin'...

 

[LouisBooth]

yeah, you are.look at your post..they MAY you use... either that or you're just old

 

[Ben johnson]

Oh! Above the belt, dude! You are so cold...

Just 'cause I had a birthday last 12th.

I was 39!

...again...



(So---did you figure out how I got it to display the brackets without acting on them???)

 

[LouisBooth]

yeah, you probalby did some other marker inbetween them and ended it on the same place.

 

[Ben johnson]

Heh heh---I'm not gonna teeelllllll...

 

[LouisBooth]

LOL..well if I really wanted to know I could find out