• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Number of the beast and beast of revelations

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Cecil Lewis JR, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    The dominant spiritual and political period of the papacy extended from 538 to 1798 AD. That's 1260 years, not days.

    Christ used day/year correspondence in Luke 13:32. And there's OT precedence in Ezekiel 4:4-6.

    Since we're talking about literality, there's something I'd like you to do for me: Give me your literal interpretation of Scripture's first prophecy, Genesis 3:15. Thanks.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    Why not?
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    One aspect of Revelation's beast is that it's a powerful fallen angel (referred to with a Greek masculine-pronoun "he" in Revelation 17:11) who is now literally in the bottomless pit and will ascend from it during the future Tribulation to spiritually empower the empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 17:8-11), empire being a third aspect of the beast, represented by the animal symbols of Revelation 13:1-2. The fallen-angel aspect of the beast could be the angelic prince whom Satan assigned to spiritually empower the ancient empire of Babylon, just as Satan assigned other fallen angelic princes to spiritually empower the subsequent ancient empires of Persia and Greece (Daniel 10:13,20). When the ancient empire of Babylon was defeated, the fallen angelic prince empowering it could have been cast into the bottomless pit. This same fallen angel could be released to empower a revival of the empire of Babylon during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (of Revelation 13:5-18).

    The release of the powerful fallen angelic prince of Babylon from the bottomless pit could occur at the same time as the unbinding of four other powerful fallen angels now bound in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14b), who could have been bound there at the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon. The binding of a stone to a scroll by the prophet Jeremiah about the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon, and the casting of the scroll into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom (Jeremiah 51:63-64) could have been a symbolic act which included a representation of the binding of the four powerful fallen angels and their being cast into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom.

    When these four fallen angels are released at one point during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, they will cause an army of 200 million strange horse-like beings to kill 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:15-19). This could be done in order to make mankind completely desperate before its takeover by Satan and the Antichrist mid-tribulation, when Satan and his fallen angels will be cast down from heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7 to 13:18).

    That's right, for the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

    Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

    Note that the city of Babylon referred to in Isaiah 13:19-20 isn't the ancient city of Babylon, just as it isn't the symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" of Revelation. Instead, it's only the present-day, literal city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will transform into his world capital during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    In Isaiah 13:3, the "sanctified ones" who "rejoice in [YHWH's] highness" are the obedient people in the Church in Revelation 19:7-8, after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be, in Isaiah 13:4-5, the "host of the battle" from "heaven", when they physically descend from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus Christ as He alone wages war against the world's armies at His Second Coming (Revelation 19:14-21). So in Isaiah 13:6,9, the "day of the Lord" is the same as the future, Second-Coming Day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

    Isaiah 13:10,13 refers to the same, future, Second-Coming time as Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19:15.

    Isaiah 13:11 refers to Jesus' defeat of the world's armies at His Second Coming (Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

    Isaiah 13:16 refers not to what Jesus or the Church will do, but to what some unsaved "Medes" (Isaiah 13:17-18) will do to the inhabitants of the city of Babylon at the time of Jesus' Second Coming. By "Medes" is meant the native inhabitants of that part of the Middle East which in ancient times was called "Media" and is now in northwestern Iran. The Kurds who now live there, and in surrounding areas, claim to be the descendants of the ancient Medes.

    In Isaiah 13:17, the "Medes" aren't the ancient Medes who conquered the ancient city of Babylon (Daniel 5:28,31). For the ancient Medes didn't make the ancient city of Babylon uninhabited (Isaiah 13:19-22) when they defeated it, but instead kept it as a thriving city which continued on for centuries.

    In Isaiah 13:19-22, the total and eternal destruction of the city of Babylon (in Iraq) has never been fulfilled. For Saddam Hussein rebuilt the city of Babylon (using bricks he inscribed with "built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar"). And after his defeat, U.S. forces built a military base in Babylon. And in the future, the Antichrist will transform the city of Babylon into his world capital. Isaiah 13:19-22 won't be fulfilled until this city is destroyed at Jesus Christ's Second Coming.
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Note that Revelation 13 must be taken as a whole, for it refers to various things connected with the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), which things have never been fulfilled.

    For example, the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the Antichrist which the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

    Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

    In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma: G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of neural network supercomputers running highly advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of the neural networks having been imprinted with the Antichrist's own brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and can't tell whether or not it has consciousness, because its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

    But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's. For it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world it's not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: his android body could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

    The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, tablet, laptop, television, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

    And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

    And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged remotely in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

    Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what's going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of his exact location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (that is, in a brainwashing prison, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

    The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

    Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it's released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This could happen so quickly it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

    Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What's left of the bodies could then be stuffed in shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic "Black Pyramid of Death", which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is He didn't, for He created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to Christians through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

    Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

    This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", some people in each group could really get into the evening worship sessions, and even (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He's So Great!"

    For example, as a worshipper named Mary, a housewife with two little children, is bowing down before the image of the Antichrist, he could speak forth to her: "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish thee, my precious dove!". And poor Mary could begin to cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to her, not realizing they're merely the concoction of an artificial-intelligence program running in a neural network supercomputer down in the basement of some government building.

    Also, the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than four years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Note that Christian Futurism per se should be distinguished from Dispensationalism.

    For Christian Futurism per se is correct, because the Tribulation and subsequent Second-Coming prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 19 and Matthew 24 haven't yet been fulfilled, just as the prophecies of the subsequent Millennium (e.g. Revelation 20:4-6 and Zechariah 14) haven't yet been fulfilled.

    But Dispensationalism is mistaken because it sets up a mutual exclusiveness between the Church and Israel.

    Also, Dispensationalism is mistaken because it teaches a pre-tribulation rapture.

    Regarding "make you some coin", that brought to mind: "Freely ye have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8b, cf. Romans 8:32b).

    *******

    Note that there He was referring to His physical resurrection into immortality on the literal 3rd day after His death on the Cross (Luke 9:22, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:7,46, Luke 24:39, Revelation 1:18).

    Note that it hasn't been said that all prophecy must be fulfilled literally.

    Regarding Genesis 3:15, it could be understood as follows: "And I will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman [Eve], and between thy seed [those who will never be saved, e.g. John 8:42-47] and her seed [Christ, and those He would save through His death, Isaiah 53:10]; it [Christ and those He would save] shall bruise thy head [Romans 16:20], and thou shalt bruise his heel [Satan would get Christ killed through Judas; Luke 22:3-6]".

    Regarding the book of Revelation, it's almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for Christians of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it which are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

    Just as Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal, and will begin right after Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when He will reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

    *******

    Because of the context.

    For the judgment which will sit prior to the future Antichrist's kingdom being taken away (Daniel 7:26) could occur in heaven before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. And it could involve only the matter of the Antichrist's kingdom, which will be taken away legally at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. The Tribulation's subsequent vial judgments against the Antichrist and his worshippers (Revelations 16), and then the subsequent Second-Coming judgment against them (Revelation 19:11-21), will both occur before the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Only the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur sometime after the Millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

    Daniel 7:27a refers to the rule of the future, earthly aspect of the Kingdom of God being given to those in the Church. After Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3), those in the (at that time) physically resurrected Church will be the kings and priests who will rule on the earth with Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). There will also be non-Christians on the earth during that time, who won't be given the Kingdom, but will be its forced subjects (Psalms 66:3-7, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:16-19), ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the Church (Psalms 2:7-9, Revelation 2:26-29).

    And even the earthly aspect of the Kingdom "is an everlasting kingdom" (Daniel 7:27). So sometime after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), the earthly aspect of the Kingdom will continue forever on a New Earth (Revelation 21:1-4, Revelation 22:5), in the sense of a new surface of the earth.

    Daniel 7:27b refers to all dominions serving Jesus Christ. After His future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:3-5), He will be King over the whole earth (Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11), ruling all nations from the earthly Jerusalem (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-21).
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    The context of "think to change times and laws" in Daniel 7:25 is the same as that of the other actions in Daniel 7:25, which have been demonstrated to be attributable to the papacy.

    Daniel 7:26-27 is a restatement of Daniel 2:44, which describes Christ's spiritual kingdom established at His first coming during the 4th of the aforedescribed kingdoms in Daniel 7 i.e. the Roman empire. Christ's spiritual kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and exists in the hearts of His people (Luke 17:20-21). Those who believe in Him become kings and priests in His spiritual kingdom (1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 1:6). All of this has been in progress since Christ first came; none of it awaits a future fulfillment. At the end upon His second coming, He will deliver His spiritual kingdom up to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24).
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    Given that today's futurism is for the most part a product of the papal counter-reformation during the darkest days of the papal apostasy, can such futurism be legitimately characterized as "Christian"?
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    I fully concur.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    Luke 13 NASB
    32 And He said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.’

    Christ's active ministry began about three years before His death. In the first two years, he ministered ("I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow") and in the third year he died, arose, and ascended ("the third day I reach My goal"). When He declared "I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow" He could not have been referring only to the two days just prior to the day He died. Nor is there any indication that He was futurizing the whole time period; when He said "today..." there is no reason to believe that He was not referring to the actual day of His declaration.
     
  10. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Daniel 2:44a refers to the setting up of the physical aspect of the Kingdom of God subsequent to Jesus Christ's (still unfulfilled) Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 21:8). Daniel 2:44b refers to the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected Church not leaving the earth to other people, but remaining on the earth and ruling the surviving non-Christian nations with a rod of iron during the Millennium, and figuratively breaking some of them in pieces like a potter's vessel (Psalms 2:7-9, Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6). "And it shall stand for ever" (Daniel 2:44c) refers to the physical aspect of the Kingdom continuing on a New Earth forever (Revelation 21:1-8, Revelation 22:5), after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7 to 22:5).

    John 18:36 means Jesus Christ's future, physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) won't be of this world in the sense it won't come by worldly means, such as by the Church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus Himself returning physically from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), a New Earth will be created and God's Kingdom will continue forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).
     
  11. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Presently the Kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24) and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future the Kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

    Jesus Christ's Kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at His future, Second Coming, He will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in His humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' Second Coming, He will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And He will bring salvation to all the still-living, non-Christian elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, non-Christian elect Jews) will become Christians when they see Jesus at His Second Coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the Church at that time. For there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

    After Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected Church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the Church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

    1 Peter 2:9 refers to those in the Church, who will reign with Jesus Christ as kings and priests on the earth during the future Millennium (Revelation 5:9-10, Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

    That is, while Christians are kings and priests now (Revelation 1:6; 1 Peter 2:9), and are in the Kingdom of God's spiritual aspect now (Romans 14:17), they aren't yet in the Kingdom of God's physical aspect (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28), which will be on the earth during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    In 1 Corinthians 15:24 the "end" will be at the end of all the future, never-fulfilled events of Revelation 19:7 to 20:15.

    That is, 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 doesn't mean Jesus Christ will deliver the Kingdom to God the Father immediately at Jesus' future, Second Coming, only that Jesus will do that sometime subsequent to His Second Coming. For right after Jesus' Second Coming, "he must reign" (1 Corinthians 15:25) on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then He must defeat the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). Then He must physically resurrect and judge non-Christians of all times, at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Only then will He have "put all enemies under his feet" (1 Corinthians 15:25), including the first-death itself (1 Corinthians 15:26), which will be cast into the lake of fire (the second death) at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:14). Only after that will Jesus deliver up the Kingdom to God the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24). Then a New Heaven (a new first heaven/sky/atmosphere) and a New Earth (a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven to the New Earth in the literal city of New Jerusalem, the Father's house (John 14:2), to live with the Church on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-4).
     
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Note that what has been presented has been based solely on the Bible, not on any RCC product.

    *******

    Note that He could have been referring to the literal today and tomorrow at the time He spoke Luke 13:32, as a synecdoche for "currently and in the future". And He could have employed ellipsis when He said: "and the third day I shall be perfected", in that He could have meant: "and the third day [after My death] I shall be perfected". For compare His repeated, literal use of "the third day" in Luke 9:22, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:7 and Luke 24:46.
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    Christ's spiritual kingdom was set up "in the days of these kings" referring to the previously enumerated four kingdoms. These were the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, and Roman. Christ's first coming and establishment of His spiritual kingdom occurred in the days of the fourth kingdom, i.e. the Roman empire.

    From the Adam Clarke Commentary:

    "In Daniel 2:44, the kingdom of the stone, grown into a great mountain and filling the whole earth, is particularly described by various characters.
    • It is a kingdom which the God of heaven sets up. That this means the whole dispensation of the Gospel, and the moral effects produced by it in the souls of men and in the world, needs little proof; for our Lord, referring to this and other prophecies in this book, calls its influence and his Gospel the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven; showing thereby that it is a kingdom not of this world - not raised by human ambition, the lust of rule, or military conquest; but a spiritual kingdom, raised and maintained by the grace of God himself in which he himself lives and rules governing by his own laws, influencing and directing by his own Spirit; producing, not wars and contentions, but glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and good will among men.
    • This is called the kingdom of heaven, because it is to be a counterpart of the kingdom of glory. The kingdom of God, says the apostle, is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost, (Romans 14:17); righteousness, without any sin; peace, without inward disturbance; joy, without any mental unhappiness. An eternity of righteousness, peace, and spiritual joy constitutes Heaven; nor can we conceive in that state any thing higher or more excellent than these.
    • This kingdom shall never be destroyed: it is the everlasting Gospel, and the work of the everlasting God. As it neither originates in nor is dependent on the passions of men, it cannot be destroyed. All other governments, from the imperfection of their nature, contain in them the seeds of their own destruction. Kings die, ministers change, subjects are not permanent; new relations arise, and with them new measures, new passions, and new projects; and these produce political changes, and often political ruin. But this government, being the government of God, cannot be affected by the changes and chances to which mortal things are exposed.
    • This kingdom shall not be left to other people. Every dispensation of God, prior to Christianity, supposed another by which it was to be succeeded.
    • Holy patriarchs and their families were the first people among whom the kingdom of God was found.
    • Hebrews, in Egypt and in the wilderness, were the next.
    • Jews, in the promised land, were a third denomination.
    • And after the division of the kingdoms, captivity, and dispersion of the Jews, the Israel of God became a fourth denomination.
    • Under the Gospel, Christian is the name of the people of this kingdom. Every thing in the construction of the Gospel system, as well as its own declarations, shows that it is not to be succeeded by any other dispensation: its name can never be changed; and Christian will be the only denomination of the people of God while sun and moon endure. All former empires have changed, and the very names of the people have changed with them. The Assyrians were lost in the Chaldeans and Babylonians; the Babylonians were lost in the Medes; the Medes in the Persians; the Persians in the Greeks; and the Greeks in the Syrians and Egyptians; these in the Romans; and the Romans in the Goths, and a variety of other nations. Nor does the name of those ancient governments, nor the people who lived under them, remain on the face of the earth in the present day! They are only found in the page of history. This spiritual kingdom shall never be transferred, and the name of its subjects shall never be changed.
    • It shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms; that is, the preaching and influence of Christianity shall destroy idolatry universally. They did so in the Roman empire, which was the epitome of all the rest. But this was not done by the sword, nor by any secular influence. Christians wage no wars for the propagation of Christianity; for the religion of Christ breathes nothing but love to God, and peace and good will to all mankind. The sum of the Gospel is contained in these words of Christ: "God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life - for the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save."
    For his own cause, God fights in the course of his providence. He depresses one, and exalts another; but permits not his own people to join with him in the infliction of judgments. It is by his own Spirit and energy that his kingdom is propagated and maintained in the world; and by the same his enemies are confounded. All false religions, as well as falsified and corrupted systems of Christianity, have had recourse to the sword, because they were conscious they had No God, no influence but what was merely human.
    • The kingdom of Christ breaks in pieces and consumes all other kingdoms; that is, it destroys every thing in every earthly government where it is received, that is opposed to the glory of God and the peace and happiness of men, and yet in such a way as to leave all political governments unchanged. No law or principle in Christianity is directed against the political code of any country. Britain is Christian without the alteration of her Magna Charta or her constitution. All the other empires, kingdoms, and states on the face of the earth, may become Christian and preserve their characteristic forms of political government. If there be in them any thing hostile to Christianity, and the peace and happiness of the subject, the Wind of God - the Divine Spirit, will fan or winnow it away, so that no more place shall be found for it. But this he will do in the way of his ordinary providence; and by his influence on their hearts, dispose truly Christianized rulers to alter or abrogate whatever their laws contain inimical to the mild sway of the scepter of Christ.
    • And it shall stand for ever. This is its final characteristic. It shall prevail over the whole world; it shall pervade every government; it shall be the basis of every code of laws; it shall be professed by every people of the earth: "The Gentiles shall come to its light, and kings to the brightness of its rising." The whole earth shall be subdued by its influence, and the whole earth filled with its glory."
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    There is no other example of, or precedent for, this type of construct, by Christ. The only existing precedent is the day-year synecdoche (good word) in Ezek. 4:4-6.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    He unquestionably referred to the third day multiple times. He did not, however, precede it with two days.
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,025
    Non-Denom
    There were no Protestant futurists for more than three centuries starting with the Reformation. There were many great men of God during that period. They saw the same scriptures that you see. They rejected futurism because they saw fulfillment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Amen.

    Under the Old Covenant, murder was forbidden (Deuteronomy 5:17), while killing in a war commanded by God was required (1 Samuel 15:3).

    But under the New Covenant, which Christians are under (Matthew 26:28, Jeremiah 31:31), Christians are commanded never to harm anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39, Matthew 26:52). They're to be as harmless as doves (Matthew 10:16c). For Christians are commanded to love even their enemies (Matthew 5:44), and this means they must do them no harm (Romans 13:10a, Matthew 7:12).

    It's the meek who will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5, Psalms 37:11).

    Christians don't employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus Christ at His first coming set the example for what Christians are to do when they're physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). They're to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient Christians don't fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and don't love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but hate their lives in this world, so they might retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38). For obedient Christians know being killed is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it brings their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this world (Philippians 1:23).

    During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Christians (not in hiding) will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as Christians have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11).
     
  19. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    But not before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming.

    For Daniel 12:7b means that at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will come to a Church which will have been completely defeated physically by the future Antichrist. For during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed to make war against the Church and overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It's only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the Church that the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God won't share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
     
Loading...