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Featured Number of the beast and beast of revelations

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Cecil Lewis JR, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. Cecil Lewis JR

    Cecil Lewis JR New Member

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    Hello, I made a video about the beast and the number of the beast. Here it is.

    All comments are welcome. Feel free to share the video or visit my YouTube page. Thank you.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Cecil, it is not 18. The number is six hundred, three score, and six. The greek text from which the english has been translated is χξϛ.

    If the 666 were three separate six's, this is how it would be written - 6, 6, 6 the sixes would be separated by a comma.

    Similarly, do you see a difference if I were to write - Revelation 13 versus Revelation 1,3 ?

    The 666 is the number of his (the beast's) name. The beast referred to is the first beast in Revelation.
    Which is not man in general. It is just one man who for that last 42 months all the world will worship, except them who's names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18, in the original Greek Textus Receptus, isn't a trilogy of sixes ("6-6-6"), but three different Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma), the gematrial values of which (600, 60, and 6) must be added together to arrive at the total number (six hundred and sixty-six) which is represented today in decimal notation and Arabic numerals as 666. Before the West adopted decimal notation and Arabic numerals, it used Roman numerals, in which the number six hundred and sixty-six was represented by DCLXVI.

    Also, what the six hundred and sixty-six in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to is the "number of the name" of the individual man who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: The first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

    The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

    Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by Christians when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by Christians, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for Christians, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all Christians today wouldn't know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different Christians would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

    If Christians think someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it doesn't, then he isn't the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this doesn't mean he's definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

    But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this doesn't assure he's the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there won't be any more room for doubt over whether or not he's the Antichrist. His identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

    The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The gematria is visually self-evident in VICARIVS FILII DEI. Simply add the letters having Roman numeric values.
     
  5. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    And I think they only want to let us know its a MAN instead of a Kingdom like Babylon etc. The clue, imho, was never about his name, but about it being a MAN = 666. God = 777 Father Son and Holy Ghost. Man = Body, Spirit and Soul.
     
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    "Vicarius Filii Dei", a title of the pope, only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

    V = 5
    I = 1
    C = 100
    A
    R
    I = 1
    U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
    S

    F
    I = 1
    L = 50
    I = 1
    I = 1

    D = 500
    E
    I = 1

    Total = 666

    This doesn't mean the pope is the Antichrist. It just means the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

    E
    L = 50
    L = 50
    E
    N

    G
    O
    U = 5
    L = 50
    D = 500

    W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
    H
    I = 1
    T
    E

    Total = 666

    This doesn't mean the most important early leader of the SDA view is the Antichrist. It just means the SDA view (or any other view) shouldn't employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.

    --

    Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) said "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of Revelation], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six" (Against Heresies 5:30:1). This mode of calculation, or method of gematria, is the same in the Greek alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet, the English alphabet, and any other alphabet: the first nine letters in the alphabet are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet.
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

    Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    The seven heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent seven different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, eighth head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon destroyed at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Isaiah 13).

    Before the Second Coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

    The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

    Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ELLEN GOULD WHITE is not a Latin/Roman name or identification. VICARIVS FILII DEI is.
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These futurizations are consistent with those originated in the papal counter-Reformation by Jesuit Franciso Ribera to deflect the Protestant Reformation proclamation of the papacy as an antichrist. Thus the choice is between historical fulfillment, or futurized speculation. It's a pretty easy choice for me.
     
  11. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that there's no such thing as a true "historical fulfillment" of the Antichrist.

    And this is true even though any person is an antichrist who denies Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). For the spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the 1st century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), that is, even before the time of the papacy, animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

    The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

    Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

    The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

    The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).
     
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “Note that there's no such thing as a true "historical fulfillment" of the Antichrist.”

    The Reformers would entirely expect to hear the same from any papal counter-reformational futurist.
    Note that “the Antichrist” is not found in Scripture. The Reformers used the term as a generic identification fulfilling multiple prophecies in Daniel 7, 2 Thessalonians 2, John's epistles, and Revelation 13. They also frequently simply used the expression “is antichrist” in recognition of the multiple antichrists described in 1 John 2:18. They recognized that the papacy of their day, and of the preceding centuries, was the predominant, but not the sole and exclusive, antichrist.

    Futurized speculation:
    “The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36).”

    Historical fulfillment:
    The succession of popes were the fulfillment of the “man of sin” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who sat in the collective spiritual temple of the Church, displaying himself as being God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4)
    Pius XI: “I am God on the earth.”
    There is no mention of a temple in Daniel 11:36.

    Futurized speculation:
    “He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.”

    Historical fulfillment:
    1. He subdued three kings (Daniel 7:24)
    “I might cite three that were eradicated from before the pope...the Heruli under Odacer, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths” Edward Elliott, Horae Apocalypticae, Volume 3, page 139
    2. He was a “mouth speaking great things” (Daniel 7:8,25, Revelation 13:5):
    Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Boniface VIII
    But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.” Leo XIII
    3. He “made war with the saints and prevailed against them” and “wore them out”
    for 42 months (Daniel 7:21,25, Revelation 13:5,7)
    42 months = 1260 days = 1260 years according to day/year prophetic time correspondence (Ezekiel 4:4-6, Luke 13:32)
    50 million Christians perished in the 1260 years of Rome's dominance
    from 538 to 1798 AD
    4. He shall “think to change times and laws” (Daniel 7:25)
    “The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica
    5.
    An historical papal Latin/Roman title is VICARIVS FILII DEI, i.e. Vicar of the Son of God. The sum of the Roman letters with numeric value in this title is 666 (Revelation 13:18). No esoteric gematrial knowledge is required.

    “Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.”

    The only mistaken teaching is that which spurns historical prophetic fulfillment, and the only Christians who are fooled are those who believe said teaching.

    “The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).”

    The papacy did not begin to emerge identifiably before the 4th century, thus it was yet future in Irenaeus' time. The later Church fathers recognized additional signs as this emergence progressed. For example, John Chrysostom, in the 4th century, revealed the reason that Paul did not overtly identify the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 as being the existing Roman empire; that reason being Paul's resolve to shield the Thessalonian congregation from the attention of Roman authorities. By the time of the Reformation, the more than 1000 years of papal domination presented indisputable hindsight evidence of its fulfillments of the prophecies. The declaration of these historical prophetic truths was a major contributor to ultimately ending the spiritual dark ages of the papacy.

    Futurized prophetic speculation, originating as it has in the Roman counter-reformation; and its adoption and perpetuation by modern dispensationalism, is the primary impediment to the true Church's reclamation of historical prophetic truth and faith. As former Catholic priest Joseph Zacchello has well declared, “Protestants who advocate the futuristic system are pleasing the pope and are playing into the hands of Rome.” Until this condition is recognized and resolved, the true Church will not emerge from the delusion under which it continues to labor.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note the idea of the individual-man Antichrist doesn't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Antichrist" in order for it to be true and supported by scripture, just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity doesn't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Trinity" in order for it to be true and supported by scripture (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

    Regarding Daniel 7, there the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

    But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the future Antichrist.

    The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9) which is "diverse" from the 10 ten major nations (Daniel 7:24) could mean the future Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

    The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

    This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2, no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the "beast") in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

    The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

    The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where's YHWH? He's not here! He's a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

    Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

    Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

    (Compare Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)
     
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +373
    Christian
    Private
    Regarding Revelation 13, note that it has never been fulfilled, because, for example, the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2) will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will also be visible because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (that is, the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what was shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

    The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

    Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17), and they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image, for those people who agree to do these things, even if they're Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded by the Antichrist, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient Church of all times) at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

    In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (compare also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, and Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one who will cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus returned. But he won't say he's Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ, and deny Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

    Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it's transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, two thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

    In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

    The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (that is, they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

    Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian, a worshipper of Lucifer/Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.
     
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +373
    Christian
    Private
    Regarding the 42 months, 1,260 days, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they're all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days; and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5), and the 400 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Genesis 15:13 were literal years.

    The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled, not even during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

    Daniel 7:25 isn't referring to a pope changing the time of the sabbath, but to the future Antichrist, who could radically change the calendar to where he will even get rid of the seven-day week, with its connotation to YHWH God and His seven-day creation of the world (Genesis 2:2). For the future Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

    The Antichrist could do what the atheists of the French Revolution did: Change the calendar to one consisting of 10-day weeks. Then he could say every month will consist of three of these 10-day weeks, so a year will consist of 12 months of 30 days each. But because this will make a year only 360 days, he could add a 5 or 6-day holiday period at the end of the year.

    Like they did in the French Revolution, the Antichrist could also change the names of the 12 months to whatever pleases him. And he could change the names of his 10 days of the week to whatever pleases him.

    The Antichrist's changing of "times" could even extend to the hour, minute, and second. For he could replace the 60-second minute with a 10-second "new minute", and the 60-minute hour with a 10-new-minute "new hour", so the decimal-based metric system will finally be extended to time-keeping.

    But because a new, 100-second new-hour would mean there would be 864 new-hours in a day, the Antichrist could change the length of the second to a "new-second" consisting of about 86.4 of our current seconds, so there will be exactly 10 new-hours in every day. Times shorter than the new-second will be metric: the deci-new-second, the centi-new-second (about .864 the length of our current second), the milli-new-second, etc.

    So the Antichrist's "changing of times" could seem pretty neat to the world (and to metric-system-loving scientists): 10 days in a week, 10 hours in a day, 10 minutes in an hour, and 10 seconds in a minute.

    This could be sold to the world as part of a "New World Order", as a way of "finally shedding all the archaic time-keeping conventions, and replacing them with a modern and scientific system of time-keeping in line with the metric system of weights and measures, which has already proven to be such a boon to mankind".
     
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +378
    Protestant
    Married
    Sorry brother but you are confusing the Seventh Beast Man with the 8th Beast who is a Demon Spirit, who was over ALL SEVEN. His name is Apollyon. He has no Physical 8th Kingdom, thus only Seven Heads. The Last Beast is the Little Horn that arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head (Europe).

    Islam will be destroyed.

    The Bible says Babylon will never be inhabited again. Too many people follow hunches without checking scriptures, God can not lie and he states Babylon will never be again. The Babylon mentioned is a METAPHOR. Rev. 14, 16 and 18 are the exact same events. Rev. 14 is the Harvest (Wine-press) of the Wicked where Babylon Falls. Rev. 16 is Armageddon where Babylon is defeated (Rev. 16:19. And Rev. 18 is Babylon being beset upon by plagues (Seals/Trumpets/Vials) of God until Babylon Falls....Babylon is the STATUE of Daniel 2, its World Governance under Satan, and it will be SMASHED by Jesus Christ the Rock cut out of the Mountain. The Clay represents Satan not mixing with Man. Our foundation built on Satan will NOT STAND. Our Foundation built on Jesus the Rock will stand forever.

    Babylon is the Gold Head, its a Metaphor for World Governance leaving out God and loving THIS WORLD.

    The Anti-Christ is a MAN....Born of a Woman, he isn't going to claim anything, but that he is GOD.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,926
    Non-Denom
    No need for all of the "coulds." We do way better than that.

    Here are your ten kingdoms; they emerged from the dissolution of the western imperial Roman empire: Heruli, Suevi, Burgundians, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, and Anglo-Saxons. We've already seen the three of those kingdoms that were "plucked up" by the papacy, symbolized by the little horn: the Heruli in 493, the Vandals in 534, and the Ostrogoths in 553. There is not even a slight implication that the toes in Daniel 2 represent kingdoms. The two "toes" references in Daniel 2 are the only ones in the whole book of Daniel; they are mentioned only in association with the feet, and the explanation of their mixed composition symbolizing the mixed strength of the 4th kingdom is clear. The diverse characteristics of the little horn, and their fulfillments in the papacy, have already been more than well described.
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,926
    Non-Denom
    I must confess that your imagination is most impressive. However, unfortunately, imagination is still speculation. The retroactive prophetic recognition of the Reformers is all that we need to establish the veracity of the historical fulfillments that occurred, that they recognized, and that they declared. And the results in spiritual liberation that they achieved, with God's empowerment, are an unmistakable and undeniable testimony to the legitimacy of their prophetic faith and endeavors. There were no "coulds" in their prophetic theology.
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,926
    Non-Denom
    My focus in Revelation 13 is on those verses that bear significant similarity to those in Daniel 7. I don't claim competence yet in the interpretation of any of the remainder of the chapter. Nor have I yet studied any of the early Church's or Reformers interpretations.

    You know, if you haven't already, you really should contact the appropriate sources in the dispensational community with a sample of your material. I would say that it has the potential to make you some coin.
     
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