So true.Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Jesus.
Clare73 said:Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.
Precisely. . .and there will be no grace at the Judgment (Mt 7:23 25; Lk 13:25-27),Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Jesus.
I wonder if "wrath" could be replaced by "zeal" in some/many cases...
I'm not familiar with Latin.
Silent? Not in the above, in Rev 21:1-5 they remain in the fire in the new creation.
Precisely. . .and there will be no grace at the Judgment (Mt 7:23 25; Lk 13:25-27),
only the terrifying power (2Th 2:8, 10) of the Judge; (Jn 5:22, 27, 8:26, 12:48; Mt 25:31-33),
who judges those who are not in him, while he saves those who are.
And now your textual Biblical demonstration of your argument?
When I say I asked but you didn't answer, it's not you actually ignored my question, it's the above.Clare73 said:In Rev 21:8, the goats remain in the Lake of Fire in the new creation (Rev 21:1-5), the next age.
Lex talionis means "the punishment fits the offense." It is the principle of justice as found explained to the Hebrew people when God gave the law to the Israelites. Under lex talionis, you do not hang a child for stealing a loaf of bread, as those wonderful paragons of virtue, the Pilgrims did. You make the person restore the bread to you. If a man was caught stealing a sheep, he was made to pay back either the sheep by another sheep, or he was made to pay back the value of the sheep.
So, under this description of God's law, tell me what sin is worth an eternity in fire and torment
You mean this lex talionis, of Lev 24:18-21--eye for eye, tooth for tooth?You didn't answer my question. What is "lex talionis?"
Please describe for me the biblical punishment as found in Scripture - lex talionis.
The "over and out" is still pending. . .
When I say I asked but you didn't answer, it's not you actually ignored my question, it's the above.]
You answer, but not the question/issue presented.
You do not address the Scriptures presented, instead you seek to unseat them human reasoning.
I don't take my theology from human reasoning, I take it from the Word of God written, as in Rev 21:1-5;
Mk 9:43, 47-48; Mt 12:32; Lk 3:17; Rev 14:11, 19:2,3.
Yes. . .I think a graceful retreat is probably the best idea here, in light of your inability to present any textual Biblical demonstrations in support of your arguments.It's been fun, but I'm done.
Now that's false and you know it, unless you haven't been paying attention. . .You will not listen to facts,
you keep ignoring the fact that you are using false and corrupted translations of the Greek,
And with all that "pounding," you still did not attempt to address it.and you apparently are not open to saying "Let me study this and get back to you." You appear to leap to the keyboard to spout off your nonsense without any reflection on what has been said to you. You keep saying the same things over and over again....and
pounding the Bible frantically rather than trying to understand what it actually is saying.
"Do not go beyond what is written." (1Co 4:6).Finally, there is nowhere in the Bible where the Bible says "The Bible alone is all you need."
And where God makes an end to teaching, we must make an end to knowing.If that were true, you would never have any understanding of things like "Does Christ have one nature or two. One will or two?"
My point exactly. . .The heretic Arias, who denied Christ's divinity, when standing before the Council of Nicea, defended his heresy strictly from Scripture. Bet you didn't even know that.
Agreed. . .with differing authorities for truth--Word of God written vs. human reasoning--we have no way to resolve our differences.So, thanks for the discussion, but I think we are done here.
False. . .there is no bending of the Greek by me in Mk 9:43, 47-48; Mt 12:32; Lk 3:17;You apparently are not listening at all. We keep working with you to try to show you that your "sola scriptura" position is based on flawed interpretations not faithful to the Greek text
And yet you do not, because you cannot, present any textual Biblical demonstration of your assertion. Therefore it remains thatand a complete misunderstanding of the character of God. Your interpretation of the Bible has created a God who looks like some evil character from a Marvel comic and then you ignore the Greek and bend the Scriptures to fit that understanding.
The one with the most Bible verses wins? Is that how this works?And now for your textual Biblical demonstration of your argument?
The one with the most Bible verses wins? Is that how this works?
We are stuck arguing Universalism with a Damnationist biased translation.
Somehow your Bible verses are MORE biblical than ours? Not sure how that works.
___ Faith without works is dead as well as work without faith is dead. Both are required.What do you make of this?
Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Hey, Joe; thanks for reading and following my posts. Welcome to the forum.Steve,
I have being reading your responses on this thread. From what I gather, you believe that Jesus Christ is actually the Savior of the world and will complete the mission that the Father gave Him. Is that correct?
If so, do you understand His plan to accomplish it?
Joe
Bible versus Bible. Who wins, who loses?___ Faith without works is dead as well as work without faith is dead. Both are required.
You didn't know that?The one with the most Bible verses wins? Is that how this works?
Nice misrepresentation. .when the argument I presented was based in no verses with "biased translation."We are stuck arguing Universalism with a Damnationist biased translation.
Somehow your Bible verses are MORE biblical than ours? Not sure how that works.
Hey, Joe; thanks for reading and following my posts. Welcome to the forum.
Yes, I do "believe that Jesus Christ is actually the Savior of the world and will complete the mission that the Father gave Him." --- In a sense he has already completed it. When he said "It is finished", it was a done deal.
Do I "understand His plan to accomplish it?" That part is a bit sketchy. We can see how things were put in motion and how things will end. But things are a bit fuzzy in the middle. What is your take on this? Thanks.
Hey, Joe; thanks for reading and following my posts. Welcome to the forum.
Yes, I do "believe that Jesus Christ is actually the Savior of the world and will complete the mission that the Father gave Him." --- In a sense he has already completed it. When he said "It is finished", it was a done deal.
Do I "understand His plan to accomplish it?" That part is a bit sketchy. We can see how things were put in motion and how things will end. But things are a bit fuzzy in the middle. What is your take on this? Thanks.
...All means all. It does not mean "only all of a certain group." as the Calvinists aver. It doesn't mean "all of one kind" or "all of one race". All means every single one - period. ...
I agree that all means all. the difference is in what is meant for all. Salvation is for all, but not all accept it. And if person doesn’t accept it, it is not useful for him.
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