Nudism

[Natman]

Again, as I believe I've said IT DOES OFFEND MY CONSCIENCE!!!!

The question is "why?".

 

[Natman]

Eph 3:20,

I would agree with you to a point.

I believe that we should not take "offense" to that which God created for "good".
For example:
-Many people are offended by humans consuming meat. But God designed us as carnivorous creatures, requiring the protein and nutrients found in red meat. He gave us canines and incisor teeth and the necessary digestive system to handle meat.
-Some people are offended by viewing others with dabilitating birth defects, even though that is how God made them.
-Some people are offended by the mere mention of God or Jesus.
-Many, many people are offended by the truth in that there is only one way to get into God's heaven, and that is through Faith in Jesus Christ alone.

We absolutely SHOULD be offended by those things that God has declared to be offensive in His sight, and NEVER be offended by His commands, His declarations or His truth.

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[Eph. 3:20]

Hello Immerced..

No you never said that it offended your conscience. I thought you were speaking from a Biblical point of view and that God calls it a sin. My apologies. Scripture is very clear on this " if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean" (Rom. 14:14b) See, not only do I not have the feedom to violate your conscience, but God doesn't give you the freedom to violate your own conscience!

Hello Nate...

I think Immerced has brought up a valid point for her and others. No matter what we do, someone, somewhere is going to take offense. We cannot be controlled by the conscience of another. If we did we wouldn't be able to move. We are, "each to be fully convinced in our own mind" (Rom. 14:5), and "Happy is the man who is not condmened by what he approves" (Rom. 14:22) Here is what Paul says about this very situation. "Why is my freedom judged by another man's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that which I give thanks? Whether then you eat of drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." (1 Cor. 10:29-31). This is the point of Romans 14, it speaks to things to which Scripture is silent and demonstrates the inherent cleanliness of all things, "nothing is unclean in itself." (Rom. 14:14)

Hope this helps.
Eph. 3:20

 

[Natman]

Hello Immerced..

"If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that which I give thanks? Whether then you eat of drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." (1 Cor. 10:29-31). This is the point of Romans 14, it speaks to things to which Scripture is silent and demonstrates the inherent cleanliness of all things, "nothing is unclean in itself." (Rom. 14:14)

Hope this helps.
Eph. 3:20

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You... and you too Eph 3:20.

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[immersedingrace]

No you never said that it offended your conscience. Eph. 3:20

The following is from a previous post on this thread:

and so is this...which makes it WRONG and SINFUL for someone to go around in public nude. Meaning that for YOU (or any other Christian) to go around nude, "harms the conscience and faith" of ME, and many others. It's dispicable, it's ugly, and it's misused. I for one, would love to see the day when this weren't true. I much prefer not having to get dressed, do laundry, and shop for new clothes, but until our society is less sinful, and less lustful it is the way it is.
blessings.

I thought you were speaking from a Biblical point of view and that God calls it a sin.

I believe God DOES call it a sin. I believe Clarity does a fairly good job of proving this, but since we can't agree on the meaning of those scriptures, then we go to Romans 14. Since we agree that we don't have the right to offend another Christian's conscience, then it's really a moot point. Go to your private nudist colonies, and beaches or whatever, but DO NOT bring it into the public. Even if it were legal, it would still violate my conscience. I would not drink (Don't anyway, but that's another story altogether) in front of a recovering alcoholic. I would not cook a meatloaf for a vegetarian. I would not have the television on when friends ask me to watch their kids but don't allow them to watch TV. It might be inconvenient for me or uncomfortable, or maybe doesn't even make sense, but it's something I do out of respect for them. On the other hand, I don't allow people to smoke in my house/car, use foul language in my home, or a myriad of other things I find offensive. People do abide by these things out of respect for me. If they can't do that they're asked to leave, if they choose not to, then they don't come. For the record, if I knew my friends liked to walk around nude, I wouldnt' expect them to be clothed in their own home. I just wouldn't accept their invitation to dinner. They would be well aware of this, and if they STILL wanted me to come, then it would be THEIR choice to be clothed or I would need to leave.

blessings

 

[Natman]

Immersedingrace,

You still have not answered my question "why" it offends you.

As you have seen from the long list of posts, Clarity has not given "Biblical" evidence to state that "nakedness", private or public, is sinfull. And as I pointed out earlier, being "offended" is not ample reason either, unless we are additionally offending God.

Please give me the scriptural references for your position.

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[Johnnz]

Clarity does not like my interpretation of the Genesis story. Fine. But the issue is not whether either of us likes one view more than the other, but rather which view is most consistent with standard principles of biblical .exegesis.



The bible’s principle themes, from Genesis to Revelation, are God, sin, salvation, redemption and the final fulfillment of God’s eternal purposes. Those themes are repeated by story, by divine pronouncements, by preliminary real life images known as types and by specific revelation. There are libraries of excellent books from respected Christians that give exegeses of the typology of Scripture, going back centuries.



The Genesis story sets all these themes in place. The parallels with the major themes contained in Genesis and what Jesus accomplished are quite detailed. Here are some examples of those parallels in support of my position that the Genesis story is about the restoration of our relationship with God (i.e. salvation) and not about the necessity of clothing.



God clothed the couple in skins

We are to put on the new self, to be clothed with Christ



The skin required the slaying of an animal - the shedding of blood

Christ is our sacrifice



The couple hid from God, not each other

Who can stand in the presence of the Almighty? The soldiers fell down when Jesus announced “I AM”



In the garden was God (Jesus) and Satan,

In another garden was Jesus and Satan (Satan entered Judas)



In one garden man was expelled, with angels on guard to prevent re entry

In another Garden tomb, angels announced entry to the new kingdom - He is not here



Salvation was promised through the line of Eve

Mary was Jesus earthly mother



The tree of life was in the garden

The tree of life is in the heavenly city (Rev 22)



To ignore all those parallels and teach that the couple were ashamed of their nakedness, not of their sin is to place an exegetical mote against a mountain of exegetical principle.



John

NZ

 

[UberLutheran]

I also do not wish to see a naked 300 pound man frequenting my corner deli

To think: you will never have to see my naked (or bare-chested) 270 pound frame at a deli, a beach, or anywhere else where people remove their clothes (for any reason).

Truly, God did you a favor 15 years ago when I had my thyroid gland irradiated!

To think: if I had left those nodes growing on my thyroid gland -- I might actually be outside today with my shirt off!

Do you have any other comments you'd care to make about those of us who are overweight, and how disgusted we make you feel?

Believe me: if I had HAD the choice, I surely wouldn't have chosen to look like THIS!

 

[immersedingrace]

To think: you will never have to see my naked (or bare-chested) 270 pound frame at a deli, a beach, or anywhere else where people remove their clothes (for any reason).

Did you happen to read the whole post or did you stop at that? My point is I don't want to see ANYBODY naked in public.

I do apologize for offending you.

blessings

 

[immersedingrace]

Do you have any other comments you'd care to make about those of us who are overweight, and how disgusted we make you feel?

I don't recall saying that overweight people make me feel disgusted. I believe I said NAKED people in public. Please point out where you found my name attached to a comment about overweight people making me feel disgusted.

blessings

Oh, and for the record, I don't like to see MY naked body either.

 

[UberLutheran]

Hi Uberlutheran! I don't see nudity as a Romans 14 issue. I don't believe that we are given the liberty to walk around naked. While we have the liberty to choose between eating and not eating meat (i.e. God is pleased with either choice), I don't believe that we have the liberty of being nude in public.

I am curious as to where you would draw this liberty from the Scriptures. If you wouldn't mind show me an example from the New Testament where we are given this liberty, I would greatly appreciate it

I hope to hear from you soon

So I'm not quite sure where you decided I had said it was -- but I didn't say that.

Now that you've brought it up -- I do believe it is a Galatians issue, e.g., all things are lawful but not all things are helpful.

It becomes a Romans 14 issue when we are to consider doing (or not doing) things that would cause a weaker brother (or sister) in Christ to stumble. If public nudity causes someone to stumble, then one ought not to be nude around that person. Reason why: not antagonizing them or causing them to stumble is a loving thing to do. Since Christ loves us, we are to demonstrate that love to others (something which is apparently surprisingly difficult for most 21st century Christians to do).

And that, in turn, becomes a Galatians 5:12-26 issue, e.g., if you walk by the Spirit, then your actions should reflect your walk.

 

[markie]

Do you think public nudism is a sin?

No, but I wouldn't try it unless I was in a nudist camp or on a node beach.

 

[markie]

Not in public nudist areas or private nudist resorts.

Some years back at the University of California at Berkeley, a student attended classes nude and was known as "The Naked Guy". He was expelled, and rightfully so, as his practice constituted harrassment of other students, faculty, and staff. Now if he had limited his nudity to modeling for art classes where nude models are commonplace, then his actions would not have been inappropriate.

Consideration of others is the key to answering the question.

And they called him the streak.

In case you're not old enough, that was a song in the 60's about some guy who ran around naked. Here he comes, there he goes, and he ain't wearing no clothes. It was called streaking.

 

[The Bellman]

I don't recall saying that overweight people make me feel disgusted. I believe I said NAKED people in public. Please point out where you found my name attached to a comment about overweight people making me feel disgusted.

blessings

Oh, and for the record, I don't like to see MY naked body either.

You don't like to see your own naked body? I suggest getting some professional help...sounds like you have some self-worth issues...

 

[immersedingrace]

You don't like to see your own naked body? I suggest getting some professional help...sounds like you have some self-worth issues...

Nope, no self-worth issues.

 

[The Bellman]

Nope, no self-worth issues.

If you don't like to see your own naked body, you've got SOME issues, that's for sure. I'm betting on self-worth. It's either that or an extreme neuroses about nudity.

 

[immersedingrace]

If you don't like to see your own naked body, you've got SOME issues, that's for sure. I'm betting on self-worth. It's either that or an extreme neuroses about nudity.

whatever.

 

[Natman]

It becomes a Romans 14 issue when we are to consider doing (or not doing) things that would cause a weaker brother (or sister) in Christ to stumble. If public nudity causes someone to stumble, then one ought not to be nude around that person. Reason why: not antagonizing them or causing them to stumble is a loving thing to do. Since Christ loves us, we are to demonstrate that love to others (something which is apparently surprisingly difficult for most 21st century Christians to do).

Interesting enough, if you have read the post listing the societal benefits of social non-sexual nudity (naturism), you might see that it could actually HELP PREVENT a brother or sister from stumbling. (I am still trying to locate the numerical statistics, for Clarity's benefit, but the information is "off-line", so it will involve trips to several libraries and book stores.)

As a society, we have tried to deal with the issues of "lust" and "body shame" by constantly throwing more and more coverings on top of it. This has only proved to be counter-productive to the point that lust, extra-marital sex, perverse sex and pronography are at epidemic proportions. This has also lead to the destruction of the family unit through divorce and separation. The problem is that, now, when we see a naked human, we over-react because it is foriegn to our "normal" lives.

Someone gave me a parable of a Baptist minister and a naturist walking down the street. As the walked, they past the home of a woman, showering by an open window. They could both see that she was fully naked. Neither man said a word about the incident. The minister went on to his office, thinking about how that aweful woman had exposed herself and gotten his thoughts turned on lusting after her sexually. He could not get it out of his mind, so he spent the entire week proparing a sermon on the issue of "immorality". The naturist, on the other hand, just shrugged, thought "that's nice", and went on about his business, with never another thought about it.

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[Natman]

And they called him the streak.

In case you're not old enough, that was a song in the 60's about some guy who ran around naked. Here he comes, there he goes, and he ain't wearing no clothes. It was called streaking.

Please don't make me feel any older than I already am. That was actuall in the mid seventies.


Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[fashionably_lonely]

The Streak by Ray Stevens.