NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional

[Ave Maria]

Unless you had a connection with Al Qaeda, you weren't being spied on. The government doesn't have the time, people, or moneyto waste it on spying on individuals that aren't linked to terrorism.

That's what you think. The government is spying on ordinary citizens to I'd be willing to bet. If I had a connection with Al Qaida (which I most certainly don't), they'd be able to get a warrant and lawfully spy on me. Thing is, our government has been spying on people without a warrant and that is wrong!

 

[steelerguy99]

That's what you think. The government is spying on ordinary citizens to I'd be willing to bet. If I had a connection with Al Qaida (which I most certainly don't), they'd be able to get a warrant and lawfully spy on me. Thing is, our government has been spying on people without a warrant and that is wrong!

Yes, that is what I think, but it is based on logic and the testimony Michael Hayden. Do you realize how many phone calls are made by American's every day? There is simply no way the government would spy on ordinary citizens without probable cause. They don't care what kind of cake you are taking to a relative's wedding.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Well sure, I guess anything is possible, but the decisions as to WHO is being taped are made by analysts, not anyone in the White House.
The President authorized the program, but doesn't control it.

You seem pretty sure of that -- any reason we should take your word for it?

 

[Nathan Poe]

I believe they would

A government official would knowingly disobey an order from the White House itself?

Besides, the orders don't come from the President
They would come from the upper management of the NSA
There is no direct chain of Command that goes from the President to these analysts

Does there need to be? The Prez can get what he wants with a simple phone call.

 

[steelerguy99]

A government official would knowingly disobey an order from the White House itself?

You don't understand. The process doesn't work like that. There is no direct line of authority from the President to the underlings in the NSA.

Does there need to be? The Prez can get what he wants with a simple phone call.

Yes, because it would be really weird for an analyst to get a direct call from the White House. And once again, they don't receive direct orders from the White House. It goes through the NSA executive leadership

 

[steelerguy99]

You seem pretty sure of that -- any reason we should take your word for it?

That was Michael Hayden's testimony to Congress as to how the program works, and the members of Congress who were briefed on the program concurred that is how it works.

 

[Nightson]

You seem pretty sure of that -- any reason we should take your word for it?

Trust the government!

 

[indra_fanatic]

If only the judiciary were this committed to the defense of the First and Second Amendments...

 

[mwb]

If it takes 7 days to get a warrant, I'll take my chances with warrantless wiretapping.

I didn't enjoy 9/11. Nor have I forgotten.

 

[Vylo]

You can get the warrant later, that has already been explained.

 

[mwb]

Is it that simple?? What if a judge denies the warrant?

 

[Vylo]

Then you were in violation of the law and that will be addressed accordingly.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You don't understand. The process doesn't work like that. There is no direct line of authority from the President to the underlings in the NSA.

Not officially, no. Does that mean that the President has no say, no authority, no power over the NSA's activities?

Yes, because it would be really weird for an analyst to get a direct call from the White House. And once again, they don't receive direct orders from the White House. It goes through the NSA executive leadership

So a few phone calls go out -- one from the White House to NSA executive leadership, another from NSA exec to a subordinate, etc...

Really, you make it sound like our Commander in Chief is out of the loop in a time of war.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You can get the warrant later, that has already been explained.

Of course, the flaw in getting a warrant after the fact is that you need to provide a reason for monitoring the person in the first place.

This, of course, assumes that A) you actually have a reason, and B) this reason is somehow connected to the perpetual War on Terror.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Trust the government!

Because they'll know if you don't.

 

[burrow_owl]

That's what you think. The government is spying on ordinary citizens to I'd be willing to bet.

Agreed. Why else wouldn't they bother with the easy-to-get warrants? There's no doubt in my mind that they're spying on Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism.

 

[burrow_owl]

Yes, that is what I think, but it is based on logic and the testimony Michael Hayden.

You mean the guy who flat-out lied under oath after 9/11 and said all spying was done consistent with FISA?

So this is what it's come to. 'I believe because a man that has no ethical problem lying under oath told me the NSA program is OK.'

Powerful argument.

 

[steelerguy99]

ou mean the guy who f after 9/11 and said all spying was done consistent with FISA?

That is one person's opinion. Obviously Congress didn't think so because they approved him as CIA director

Powerful argument.

Not really

 

[ACougar]

Agreed. Why else wouldn't they bother with the easy-to-get warrants? There's no doubt in my mind that they're spying on Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism.

Agreed, I don't care if Judicial Oversight comes 24 or 48 hours after the event, not having checks and balances on this sort of thing is madness.

 

[steelerguy99]

Agreed. Why else wouldn't they bother with the easy-to-get warrants?

Time and administrative issues and the fact that before an emergency taping can occur, all necessary elements of a warrant need to be in order and the AG needs to sign on the dotted line for that. If ANY element is missing, then the taping can't go forward. So despite the fact I may have strong suspicision that Muhammad Ishmael Ishtar from Pakistan may be affiliated with Al Qaeda, I can't go ahead and tape his conversations. It would be like not taping communications with Japan and Germany during WWII

There's no doubt in my mind that they're spying on Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism.]

They aren't spying on Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism, at least not with this program.