Nothing changes in this forum.

[Speedwell]

You know I looked at their website and their mission and such I didn't see anything that called for a totalitarian theocracy. Maybe I missed something.

Read the "Wedge" document.

The Wedge Document

Then read (or at least look over--it's a weighty tome) The Institutes of Biblical Law by the late R. J. Rushdooney, which describes the plan for a theocracy.

The Discovery Institute is funded by the Chalcedon Foundation, American Vision and the Council for National Policy, all Christian Reconstructionist organisations

 

[rjs330]

I see. It makes you drunk instead of increasing your knowledge which allows you to understand Genesis?



Which Gospel is Truth? Is Science a Lie? Is History false? IF you have found God's Truth, it MUST agree with every other discovered Truth or it is NOT God's Truth. Amen?

It doesn't say they were drunk, but people wondered about it as they had never seen anything like it before. You just have to read what it says and you get the point.

Not sure what you mean about which Gospel is truth. There is only one gospel. The apostles told us that any gospel but the one they preached was false.

God's truth is the only truth. Man has turned it into a lie.

What is revealed is God’s anger from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people who in their wickedness keep suppressing the truth;because what is known about God is plain to them, since God has made it plain to them.For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse;because, although they know who God is, they do not glorify him as God or thank him. On the contrary, they have become futile in their thinking; and their undiscerning hearts have become darkened.Claiming to be wise, they have become fools!In fact, they have exchanged the glory of the immortal God for mere images, like a mortal human being, or like birds, animals or reptiles!This is why God has given them up to the vileness of their hearts’ lusts, to the shameful misuse of each other’s bodies.They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator — praised be he for ever. Amen. - Romans 1:18-25 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:18-25 - Complete Jewish Bible

 

[rjs330]

Not according to evolution; and no, not even with selective breeding.

Well that's no true at all. This is the problem with evolution from a common ancestor. This is where evolution believers are under denial.
The original ancestor could not jump at all. But now we can jump a stream. It couldn't for, but evolved into something that could. It couldn't build a rocket ship but it now has walked on the moon. Such a denial of the reality of evolution is amazing. Saying it can't happen, but yet it has according to evolution.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well that's no true at all. This is the problem with evolution from a common ancestor. This is where evolution believers are under denial.
The original ancestor could not jump at all. But now we can jump a stream. It couldn't for, but evolved into something that could. It couldn't build a rocket ship but it now has walked on the moon. Such a denial of the reality of evolution is amazing. Saying it can't happen, but yet it has according to evolution.

A stream is not the Mississippi; and our intelligence evolved over time by a progressive accumulation of changes.

These word games suggest to me that you are well aware how weak your position is on this topic. I expect others can see that too.

 

[Aman777]

Not sure what you mean about which Gospel is truth. There is only one gospel. The apostles told us that any gospel but the one they preached was false.

There is but one Gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ and it is the power of God unto salvation. Rom 1:16 Men of flesh have a problem believing that Jesus rose from the dead, unless they have received the Gift of God from God the Father. Eph 2:8 God gives this Gift to those who diligently seek Him. Heb 11:6 Jesus asks the Father and the Father sends the Spirit into the New Christian. Jhn 14:16 That's God's saving Gospel. Amen?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Well that's no true at all. This is the problem with evolution from a common ancestor. This is where evolution believers are under denial.
The original ancestor could not jump at all. But now we can jump a stream. It couldn't for, but evolved into something that could. It couldn't build a rocket ship but it now has walked on the moon. Such a denial of the reality of evolution is amazing. Saying it can't happen, but yet it has according to evolution.

Your latest strawman has evolution producing creatures which are not subject to the laws of physics. What's to stop evolution creating a creature which can jump to the moon? Then Mars? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd like you to answer please.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Amen. I enjoy revealing the ignorance of those who THINK they know more than God. I understand their "beliefs" and eternal faith in the false ToE which is so easily refuted. A good example is the fact that they are totally ignorant of where the first man and woman came from UNLESS you subscribe to their false Religion.

If evolution is 'easy to refute', then how come people are unable to do so?

What happens, over and over again, is that a straw man version of evolution is constructed and then refute. Let's see you refute the actual ToE.

 

[Aman777]

If evolution is 'easy to refute', then how come people are unable to do so?

What happens, over and over again, is that a straw man version of evolution is constructed and then refute. Let's see you refute the actual ToE.

Sure. The best and ONLY evidence is found in Genesis since it took mankind more than 13 Billion years After the big bang to learn to write. Genesis 2:4-7 shows that Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans, was made the 3rd Day before plants, herbs and rain and the Big Bang of our Cosmos.

Genesis 1:21 shows that every other living creature was made from WATER, on the 5th Day. Now, it's your time to explain HOW Humans (descendants of Adam) could have possibly evolved from Apes which were made Billions of years AFTER the big bang. I suspect you will run away. Fool me.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Sure. The best and ONLY evidence is found in Genesis since it took mankind more than 13 Billion years After the big bang to learn to write. Genesis 2:4-7 shows that Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans, was made the 3rd Day before plants, herbs and rain and the Big Bang of our Cosmos.

Genesis 1:21 shows that every other living creature was made from WATER, on the 5th Day. Now, it's your time to explain HOW Humans (descendants of Adam) could have possibly evolved from Apes which were made Billions of years AFTER the big bang. I suspect you will run away. Fool me.

First to say that 'humans ... evolved from apes' is misleading as humans are apes. Secondly, no humans are descendants of the Biblical Adam.

So, after having corrected your question to: How could humans evolve from a common ape ancestor? Quite easy. There was once a population of some common ancestor ape that experienced different selection pressures from other populations of the same species. Due to survival of the fittest pressures, this population slowly changed to become more adapted to its new ecological niche. While there was still considerable interbreeding (the genetic record shows how messy the separation from chimps was), eventually this new population became different enough from its parent species to be considered a different species. Later, the same process happened again and again, with new species arising from other species, becoming adapted to various niches. Some of the later species out-competed earlier, and other, species such that some species went extinct. Some species crossed with others and the populations merged. Eventually we ended up with who we are today.

BTW: I was hoping that you would finally quote a Bible verse that means what it says it does. Genesis 1 describes the creation of the sun and moon on the third day, but Adam is described as being created on the fifth day. How do you get this so wrong? I mean, your own religious text.

I don't need to 'fool you'. It seems that you are entirely capable of fooling yourself.

The Bible is a compilation of religious texts written mostly thousands of years ago before mankind had any reasonable understanding of biology, astronomy, geology, etc. There is no reason for anyone to consider it solid evidence for competing theories in any of those fields. Unless you have some evidence that it is?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

we are today.

BTW: I was hoping that you would finally quote a Bible verse that means what it says it does. Genesis 1 describes the creation of the sun and moon on the third day, but Adam is described as being created on the fifth day. How do you get this so wrong? I mean, your own religious text.

The sun and moon were created in verse 1, but appointed their duties of time and season keeping on day 4. Adam was created on day 6.

 

[rjs330]

Not according to evolution; and no, not even with selective breeding.

Yes according to evolution. It's deluding yourself to say what you said.

 

[rjs330]

A stream is not the Mississippi; and our intelligence evolved over time by a progressive accumulation of changes.

These word games suggest to me that you are well aware how weak your position is on this topic. I expect others can see that too.

A stream might as well have been the Mississippi to the common ancestor. I guess you missed my point. Saying we could jump the mississippi someday is equivilant to saying the common ancestor developed the intelligence to go to the moon. It's no different. You can delude yourself if you want, but it's no different.

Your latest strawman has evolution producing creatures which are not subject to the laws of physics. What's to stop evolution creating a creature which can jump to the moon? Then Mars? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd like you to answer please.

The common ancestor did defy the laws of physics by evolving to the point where it could jump a stream and fly. You are willing to incredulous over us evolving to jumping the Mississippi, but are not willing to be incredulous over the common ancestor being able to fly.

 

[Aman777]

First to say that 'humans ... evolved from apes' is misleading as humans are apes. Secondly, no humans are descendants of the Biblical Adam.

False, UNLESS you can explain How God's superior intelligence got inside Apes. You cannot and neither can Science since the ONLY way to change the interior of Humans (ie. Brain) is through sex with another Human who has inherited God's intelligence. Gen 3:22

So, after having corrected your question to: How could humans evolve from a common ape ancestor? Quite easy. There was once a population of some common ancestor ape that experienced different selection pressures from other populations of the same species. Due to survival of the fittest pressures, this population slowly changed to become more adapted to its new ecological niche. While there was still considerable interbreeding (the genetic record shows how messy the separation from chimps was), eventually this new population became different enough from its parent species to be considered a different species. Later, the same process happened again and again, with new species arising from other species, becoming adapted to various niches. Some of the later species out-competed earlier, and other, species such that some species went extinct. Some species crossed with others and the populations merged. Eventually we ended up with who we are today.

False, since you are describing the descent with modifications of the sons of God (prehistoric people) whose origin was in WATER. Gen 1:21 Humans were made from the ground. Gen 2:7 Don't you know the difference between prehistoric people who NEVER planted a crop nor built a home and Humans who brought God's intelligence to this world of creatures who descended from Apes?

BTW: I was hoping that you would finally quote a Bible verse that means what it says it does. Genesis 1 describes the creation of the sun and moon on the third day, but Adam is described as being created on the fifth day. How do you get this so wrong? I mean, your own religious text.

False, since the Sun and Moon were made on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Adam was "created" by God the Trinity on the 6th Day BUT Adam was formed physically on the 3rd Day from the dust of the ground. Gen 2:4-7 Your Scriptural literacy is in need of repair. Like ALL men, Adam was flesh and had to be "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ AFTER he was formed. Otherwise he would NOT be in Heaven which he is.

The Bible is a compilation of religious texts written mostly thousands of years ago before mankind had any reasonable understanding of biology, astronomy, geology, etc. There is no reason for anyone to consider it solid evidence for competing theories in any of those fields. Unless you have some evidence that it is?

That's what I do. I show current scientific discoveries listed in Genesis. Like these:

1. We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4
2. All life came forth from WATER. Gen 1:21
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things Jul 25, 2016
3. It was 180 Million years AFTER the big bang until the first Stars lit up. Scripture shows that our Cosmos began on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 and the first Stars lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie... Feb 28, 2018

Notice the dates of the things Science has RECENTLY discovered. Science has yet to confirm that we live in a Multiverse but it will announce this soon. Want more?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

False, UNLESS you can explain How God's superior intelligence got inside Apes. You cannot and neither can Science since the ONLY way to change the interior of Humans (ie. Brain) is through sex with another Human who has inherited God's intelligence. Gen 3:22

Claim with no evidence to back it up. Evolution and common descent are backed by huge amounts of evidence, while there is no evidence that there even is a God.

False, since you are describing the descent with modifications of the sons of God (prehistoric people) whose origin was in WATER. Gen 1:21 Humans were made from the ground. Gen 2:7 Don't you know the difference between prehistoric people who NEVER planted a crop nor built a home and Humans who brought God's intelligence to this world of creatures who descended from Apes?

Claim with no evidence to back it up. Discussions of God's intelligence are meaningless unless you can show that there is a God. We have intelligence because it evolved.

False, since the Sun and Moon were made on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Adam was "created" by God the Trinity on the 6th Day BUT Adam was formed physically on the 3rd Day from the dust of the ground. Gen 2:4-7 Your Scriptural literacy is in need of repair. Like ALL men, Adam was flesh and had to be "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ AFTER he was formed. Otherwise he would NOT be in Heaven which he is.

You've actually got something here. Yes, I miscounted the days. However, you still said that Adam was created on the third day when he wasn't. Given that you believe in the Bible, or at least in your particular weird interpretation, then I think it's just a bit more telling that you get a day wrong than I do.

That's what I do. I show current scientific discoveries listed in Genesis. Like these:

1. We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4

Claim unsupported by the scripture. It's very easy to take The Bible and read 'discoveries' into it post-hoc. Can you show me that anyone thought the Bible said that there was a multiverse before people came up with the idea independently?

2. All life came forth from WATER. Gen 1:21
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things Jul 25, 2016

The relationship between life and water is pretty obvious, even to primitive man. Are you going to claim that the 'sun' was discovered from the Bible because no-one could have noticed it was there until the Bible told us?

3. It was 180 Million years AFTER the big bang until the first Stars lit up. Scripture shows that our Cosmos began on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 and the first Stars lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie... Feb 28, 2018

Again, desperate attempt to fit scientific discoveries to the Bible, post-hoc. Can you show me that anyone thought that the Bible predicted a big bang before scientists came up with the theory?

Notice the dates of the things Science has RECENTLY discovered. Science has yet to confirm that we live in a Multiverse but it will announce this soon. Want more?

If you wish to post more, could you perhaps find something that the Bible predicted and that people knew that it predicted before science discovered it? If it's just more science discovering stuff, and then people such as you attempting their hardest to then reinterpret the Bible to match, then it's dang unimpressive.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

A stream might as well have been the Mississippi to the common ancestor. I guess you missed my point. Saying we could jump the mississippi someday is equivilant to saying the common ancestor developed the intelligence to go to the moon. It's no different. You can delude yourself if you want, but it's no different.

The physics alone says you're wrong, although we could certainly engineer technology to propel us across the Mississippi.

The common ancestor did defy the laws of physics by evolving to the point where it could jump a stream and fly. You are willing to incredulous over us evolving to jumping the Mississippi, but are not willing to be incredulous over the common ancestor being able to fly.

Jumping a stream and flying doesn't break the laws of physics. Jumping the Mississippi would (although it might be possible at the point it leaves Lake Itasca, I don't know; but not at its widest point).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes according to evolution. It's deluding yourself to say what you said.

OK; perhaps you could explain how, according to evolution, that could happen?

 

[Ophiolite]

The common ancestor did defy the laws of physics by evolving to the point where it could jump a stream and fly. You are willing to incredulous over us evolving to jumping the Mississippi, but are not willing to be incredulous over the common ancestor being able to fly.

I echo FB's request. I fail to see how the Law of Physics is defied. Can you explain which laws of physics would prevent the evolution of a flying creature from a non-flying creature? I'm looking forward to the explanation.

 

[USincognito]

Yes according to evolution. It's deluding yourself to say what you said.

Given your apparent paucity of understanding of what evolution actually is and what it proposes, this "I know the subject better than you" tack is quite ironically humorous.

There is nothing in evolution that suggests a human could "evolve" to jump across the Mississippi. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

 

[USincognito]

Jumping a stream and flying doesn't break the laws of physics. Jumping the Mississippi would (although it might be possible at the point it leaves Lake Itasca, I don't know; but not at its widest point).

A quick search shows 20-30 feet. Long jump records since the early 1900s are 24 feet or more (currently 29 feet), so on a low flow day, an Olympic class long jumper could jump the Mississippi at it's source.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

The common ancestor did defy the laws of physics by evolving to the point where it could jump a stream and fly. You are willing to incredulous over us evolving to jumping the Mississippi, but are not willing to be incredulous over the common ancestor being able to fly.

You didn't answer my question. I asked what would stop a creature evolving that could jump to the moon. Please, answer the question I asked this time.