Nothing changes in this forum.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 31, 2018

Jjmcubbin said:
4) The education system is horrible.

Yours may be fine, ours is in trouble. Student debt is almost 1.5 $Trillion, much of it uncollectable.

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Because unless you are willing to accept the evidence presented by experts, your only other option is studying it so that you can review the evidence yourself and do your own experiments and studies. And that's a university class. More then one, actually.

Ah, I see, we either enroll in a university so we can learn this trash isn't trash or we must conceded it's for real. Something we know anyone with any sense is not going to waste their time on. And what happens when we still find it to be hogwash?

How bout you becoming a biblical scholar, or don't even think about telling us God didn't create us just as we are...fair enough?

Perfect cop out, at least it beats doing something productive by simply explaining how evolution is a fact....right?...something I just can't seem to get anyone to do. Seems all I'm getting at this point is the excuse, "Oh my, it's just too complicated for you".

You people need to get busy, you're using those excuses up fast, and that last one isn't going to fly much longer.

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Speedwell said:
You asked me a question and I answered it.

Yes, you did.

DogmaHunter · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Ah, I see, we either enroll in a university so we can learn this trash isn't trash or we must conceded it's for real. Something we know anyone with any sense is not going to waste their time on. And what happens when we still find it to be hogwash?

How bout you becoming a biblical scholar, or don't even think about telling us God didn't create us just as we are...fair enough?

Perfect cop out, at least it beats doing something productive by simply explaining how evolution is a fact....right?...something I just can't seem to get anyone to do. Seems all I'm getting at this point is the excuse, "Oh my, it's just too complicated for you".

You people need to get busy, you're using those excuses up fast, and that last one isn't going to fly much longer.

No, sorry, I misinterpreted the quote I was responding to apparantly. Not sure where my head was there, but whatever I was responding to, it wasn't your post it seems.

Anyhow, 7-year olds don't yet have the full capacity of critical thinking and reasoning. They'll still pretty much swallow whatever you tell them (if they see you as an authority and accept that authority, that is). They don't really seek to understand, they just "register and remember". They are kids.

To really get to understand the underlying processes that make evolution possible, you need some kind of working knowledge of how chemistry, bio-chemistry, genetics,... work. You need to be able to conceptualize periods of millions of years, understand concepts like natural selection etc and how these things combined manifest in large breeding populations.

There's a reason why most of this things are only introduced in the later years of high school, and some even only in college / university.

And all that still only leaves you with a working knowledge of biology, which is rather superficial. So you rely on experts who's profession is to actually research and study these things. Not that other school subjects are any different off course... the same is true for chemistry, physics, cosmology, astronomy, math, economics etc etc.

And if you truelly, for some reason, wish to personally verify all those things yourself... then what other option do you have then to study it to gather the necessary competences and knowledge to actually do that?

Speedwell · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Ah, I see, we either enroll in a university so we can learn this trash isn't trash or we must conceded it's for real. Something we know anyone with any sense is not going to waste their time on. And what happens when we still find it to be hogwash?

No one requires that you concede the ToE for real. No one really cares what you believe about it. But if you are going to come here and argue against it, don't you think it would be a good idea to find out what the theory actually says and why?

How bout you becoming a biblical scholar, or don't even think about telling us God didn't create us just as we are...fair enough?

I don't think you want to go there. You're already outgunned.

Perfect cop out, at least it beats doing something productive by simply explaining how evolution is a fact....right?...something I just can't seem to get anyone to do. Seems all I'm getting at this point is the excuse, "Oh my, it's just too complicated for you".

We can't even get past explaining what evolution is with you, much less why it is a "fact." And no, it's not too complicated for you, but first you have to be willing to learn what the theory of evolution actually says before you can understand how the evidence confirms it.

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Speedwell said:
But if you are going to come here and argue against it, don't you think it would be a good idea to find out what the theory actually says and why?

If you are going to argue for it, prove it. I personalty am on a Christian website defending God did just what he said he did, so maybe it's you that need s to prove he did not. On an Atheist site, it would be the other way around.

Speedwell said:
I don't think you want to go there. You're already outgunned.

Outgunned, how?

And, BTW, none of that mess you just posted is an explanation to why evolution is a fact. I keep asking and you keep avoiding with excuses, so honestly, how can I take you seriously?

Forget all that other stuff and just explain/prove it...please.

Once more the subject here is prove it, not evade, not avoid, not excuse. Do I need to explain what explain/prove it means?

pitabread · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Do I need to explain what explain/prove it means?

I would say yes, you should. Since in my experiences creationists often have their own private meanings/standards for the terms.

Just the fact that creationists continually throw out these "prove evolution to me!" challenges on these forums is a huge red flag in itself.

Speedwell · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
If you are going to argue for it, prove it. I personalty am on a Christian website defending God did just what he said he did, so maybe it's you that need s to prove he did not. On an Atheist site, it would be the other way around.

You are on a Christian website promoting a particular sectarian view of creation which is not shared by all Christians. You do not hold the default position.

Outgunned, how?

Because even most of the atheists here already know more about the Bible than you do.

And, BTW, none of that mess you just posted is an explanation to why evolution is a fact. I keep asking and you keep avoiding with excuses, so honestly, how can I take you seriously?

You won't even sit still long enough for us to explain what the theory of evolution says. How do you expect to know whether the evidence confirms it if you don't know what it is supposed to be confirming?

Forget all that other stuff and just explain/prove it...please.

"All that other stuff" is part of it.

Do I need to explain what explain/prove it means?

I don't think you can.

Ophiolite · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
And, BTW, none of that mess you just posted is an explanation to why evolution is a fact. I keep asking and you keep avoiding with excuses, so honestly, how can I take you seriously?

Right back at you dear brother! I find it almost impossible to believe you have not seen multiple explanations, in summary form, of the evidence for evolution and links to textbooks and other scholarly resources addressing the same in more detail. Are you genuinely asserting that you have not seen any of these things? If so, I shall be happy to provide them, if you assure me that you will make a sincere effort to study them.

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Speedwell said:
Because even most of the atheists here already know more about the Bible than you do.

That's what I though, more unprovable "It's so because I say it's so". Or more truthfully, "Because I want it to be so, because it works for me at this moment, even if it may not be true".

I see you're still stuck on the "You cannot understand" catch all, because you post sure ain't an explanation, just more of the same.

Like I expected something more.

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Ophiolite said:
Right back at you dear brother! I find it almost impossible to believe you have not seen multiple explanations, in summary form, of the evidence for evolution and links to textbooks and other scholarly resources addressing the same in more detail. Are you genuinely asserting that you have not seen any of these things? If so, I shall be happy to provide them, if you assure me that you will make a sincere effort to study them.

That's all well and good, but would you like to back it all up with a rundown of your proof of evolution and an explanation on why it proves such, or do you just want to talk?

Bring it all together for us...or not.

Speedwell · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
That's what I though, more unprovable "It's so because I say it's so". Or more truthfully, "Because I want it to be so, because it works for me at this moment, even if it may not be true".

I see you're still stuck on the "You cannot understand" catch all, because you post sure ain't an explanation, just more of the same.

Like I expected something more.

You could understand, but for some reason you don't want to.

Speedwell · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
That's all well and good, but would you like to back it all up with a rundown of your proof of evolution and an explanation on why it proves such, or do you just want to talk?

Bring it all together for us...or not.

A rundown of the "proof" for evolution and an explanation on why it "proves" such would depend on our first coming to an agreement about what it is that the theory of evolution claims. Without that, there is no point in presenting you with any "proof."

pitabread · Mar 31, 2018

Speedwell said:
A rundown of the "proof" for evolution and an explanation on why it "proves" such would depend on our first coming to an agreement about what it is that the theory of evolution claims. Without that, there is no point in presenting you with any "proof."

I would suggest it starts even before that, namely an understanding and agreement in how science works to begin with.

pitabread · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
That's all well and good, but would you like to back it all up with a rundown of your proof of evolution and an explanation on why it proves such, or do you just want to talk?

Bring it all together for us...or not.

But you don't want "proof of evolution". You just want to win an internet argument.

So what's the point?

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Still nothing?

pitabread · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Still nothing?

Try a different fishing hole. Nobody is biting here.

Speedwell · Mar 31, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Still nothing?

Are you willing to sit still and learn what the theory of evolution says?

Kenny'sID · Mar 31, 2018

Speedwell said:
Are you willing to sit still and learn what the theory of evolution says?

I'm willing to listen to just what I requested, however you want to present it is up to you.

bhsmte · Mar 31, 2018

pitabread said:
I would suggest it starts even before that, namely an understanding and agreement in how science works to begin with.

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