Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

[Major1]

With the appearance of Christ there won't be anything left.

There won't be a "Rapture" either, but there will be a second coming, date and time unknown. It will be a cataclysmic event.

The universe was created from nothing, adds up to nothing (sum-zero energy universe) and will go back to nothing when God's finished with it, which will coincide with the Second Coming.

What's the Total Energy In the Universe?

One possibility I suppose is that God might use the Higgs Boson to do the job. Stephen Hawking used to worry about it.

For all we know the boundary of the known universe is rolling up even now at the speed of light and invisible to us for that reason. Mind you that's conjecture. But God will do the job somehow.

Stephen Hawking: 'God particle' could destroy the universe: Stephen Hawking - The Economic Times

Me thinks you have been watching way too much "Big Bang Theory" TV.

 

[Major1]

I meant it will be desolate for about a day. The verses about locations on our current Earth indicate that the Millennium will be on our current Earth, after it has been baptized with fire.

I don't think the new Earth will still have the Dead Sea, Geba, Rimmon, Mt. Zion, and a 40 mile wide Jerusalem.

The New Jerusalem in Revelation is about 1500 miles wide. This obviously has to be after the Millenium otherwise it would cover
half the Mediterranean Sea, about half the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and North Africa. Egypt would be inside the New Jerusalem. But we see in Zechariah 14 that Egypt is still a nation during the Millenium, and Jerusalem is normal size (although bigger than today, not 1500 miles wide).

I appreciate your opinion, but with respect, it is just not Biblcal.

 

[BobRyan]

With all due respect, I think you are miapplying Scriptures to suppoer your personal agenda.

or in this case accurately quoting scriptures that some folks find "inconvenient"

There will be humans who survive the Tribulation

Well that is for certain.

But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed" as Jer 4 confirms for the "Earth was desolate" and "I looked and behold there were no humans" - nothing but ruined cities according to Jer 4.

and they will live in heaven and rule with Christ for the 1000s of Rev 20

.Daniel 12:1...........
"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

A good example of a text that says nothing about a millennial kingdom on Earth starting at the second coming.

The Church which is the bride of Christ will reside in New Jerusalem and regin with Christ with David as the viceregent.

No doubt something like that happens in Rev 21 at the end of the millennium of Rev 20 -- but Dan 12:1 did not mention it. You had to add that info in your own comment - it is not in Dan 12:1

There HAS to be a physical Earth that has not been totally destroyed because we read in Rev. 20:7-9........
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

No doubt Earth does "exist" but Jer 4 says it is "desolate" with "no humans" -- during the 1000 years.

Only after 1000 have expired -- do you see humans on Earth in Rev 20. And that is because Rev 20 says -- 5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."

So as Rev 20:4-5 point out the "first resurrection" marks the start of the 1000 years (Rapture of the saints - 1 Thess 4:13-18) - and the second resurrection does not happen until the 1000 years are completed. Hence a desolated Earth - for that 1000 years.

IF the Earth was totally destroyed......Then this 2nd Battle of Gog & Magog could not take place!!!!!

As Jer 4 states - the Earth still exists during that time - but it is "desolate" and has no humans.

Take the time to actually read the first two posts of this thread --

...
ok... so what does the Bible say?

SUMMARY of Jer 4 "Desolate Earth" text

1. The EARTH - without form and void - Jer 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light Jer 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking Jer 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth Jer 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”

We know from Rev 20 that the Earth "still exists" in some form even after the 1000 years so God did not make "a complete end of it".

(An argument of the form: "ignore all that because some other texts address a different point in time" - I do not find compelling.)


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

=========================

No one left to bury the dead - so corpses left on the ground and birds consume them.

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Major1]

or in this case accurately quoting scriptures that some folks find "inconvenient"



Well that is for certain.

But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed" as Jer 4 confirms for the "Earth was desolate" and "I looked and behold there were no humans" - nothing but ruined cities according to Jer 4.

and they will live in heaven and rule with Christ for the 1000s of Rev 20



A good example of a text that says nothing about a millennial kingdom on Earth starting at the second coming.




No doubt something like that happens in Rev 21 at the end of the millennium of Rev 20 -- but Dan 12:1 did not mention it. You had to add that info in your own comment - it is not in Dan 12:1



No doubt Earth does "exist" but Jer 4 says it is "desolate" with "no humans" -- during the 1000 years.

Only after 1000 have expired -- do you see humans on Earth in Rev 20. And that is because Rev 20 says -- 5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."

So as Rev 20:4-5 point out the "first resurrection" marks the start of the 1000 years (Rapture of the saints - 1 Thess 4:13-18) - and the second resurrection does not happen until the 1000 years are completed. Hence a desolated Earth - for that 1000 years.



As Jer 4 states - the Earth still exists during that time - but it is "desolate" and has no humans.

Take the time to actually read the first two posts of this thread --

I just can not agree Bob. It seems to me that you have mixed up Scriptures and timelines.

You said.......
"But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed".

Since you are basing your whole Thesis on verse 21.....""the rest were killed",
then we should know who the "REST " are.

It is NOT the rest of humanity. The "REST" is the number of the slain soldiers. There numbers are so numerous that all the vultures that are called to "the great supper of God" in Revelation 19:17, gorge themselves on the dead bodies. Of course, the slain soldiers experience not only physical death but also eternal death, as Revelation 20:11–15 explains.

 

[Major1]

I just can not agree Bob. It seems to me that you have mixed up Scriptures and timelines.

You said.......
"But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed".

Since you are basing your whole Thesis on verse 21.....""the rest were killed",
then we should know who the "REST " are.

It is NOT the rest of humanity. The "REST" is the number of the slain soldiers. There numbers are so numerous that all the vultures that are called to "the great supper of God" in Revelation 19:17, gorge themselves on the dead bodies. Of course, the slain soldiers experience not only physical death but also eternal death, as Revelation 20:11–15 explains.

To follow up, You said.......
"But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed" as Jer 4 confirms for the "Earth was desolate" and "I looked and behold there were no humans" - nothing but ruined cities according to Jer 4."

I must also say that the Desololate/No Life on Earth, is a teaching of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which claim that the earth will be a barren, uninhabited wasteland during that time, serving only as a prison for Satan.

They do that by misstating and misapplying certain Scriptures.

Isaiah 11:4 is used to support the idea of an uninhabited earth. But if we keep reading we see that God’s revelation does not stop at verse 4. Verses 6 to 9 tell us of the marvellous conditions humanity will be living under after Jesus kills the wicked: .........

"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.1 The Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon Him,2 the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. His delight is in the fear of Jehovah, and He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears; but with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the gentle of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.3 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, and faithfulness the belt of His waist.4 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young".

1 Mat chap 1 confirms that Jeshua is God’s Rod and Branch, esp vs. 6-16. 2 1Pe 4:14 3 2Th 2:8, Rev 19:21 4 Eph 6:14 During the Millennium? .......
3 "ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea.5 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious.”

In verse 10 God tells us that during this time Jesus.......
“shall stand as a banner to the people” and that the Gentiles shall seek Him. At this time the remnants of Judah and Israel shall be gathered from the four corners of the earth, reunited and given dominion over the surrounding nations. Chapter 12 continues with a glimpse into the glory that will be given to Christ and His Father during the Millennium. There is not one mention in this entire sequence of the earth being uninhabited for even a split second. Instead of emptiness, God speaks of making a highway so the remnant of His people can return to the land of Israel (Isaiah 11:16). This is a pointless idea if the earth is uninhabited.

 

[Major1]

or in this case accurately quoting scriptures that some folks find "inconvenient"



Well that is for certain.

But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed" as Jer 4 confirms for the "Earth was desolate" and "I looked and behold there were no humans" - nothing but ruined cities according to Jer 4.

and they will live in heaven and rule with Christ for the 1000s of Rev 20



A good example of a text that says nothing about a millennial kingdom on Earth starting at the second coming.




No doubt something like that happens in Rev 21 at the end of the millennium of Rev 20 -- but Dan 12:1 did not mention it. You had to add that info in your own comment - it is not in Dan 12:1



No doubt Earth does "exist" but Jer 4 says it is "desolate" with "no humans" -- during the 1000 years.

Only after 1000 have expired -- do you see humans on Earth in Rev 20. And that is because Rev 20 says -- 5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."

So as Rev 20:4-5 point out the "first resurrection" marks the start of the 1000 years (Rapture of the saints - 1 Thess 4:13-18) - and the second resurrection does not happen until the 1000 years are completed. Hence a desolated Earth - for that 1000 years.



As Jer 4 states - the Earth still exists during that time - but it is "desolate" and has no humans.

Take the time to actually read the first two posts of this thread --

To continue.....The Seventh Day Adventist publication named " These Times also quotes Jeremiah in several places as have YOU Bob.

Jere. 25:30-33. As verse 33 states, the slain shall not be lamented, gathered or buried. But that is because at that time the survivors will be so few and so concerned about saving their own skins that they will not have the time to think about the dead as Jeremiah 4, discussed next, shows.

The publication then quotes Jeremiah 4:23-26. Very convincing if one only reads these four verses. However, God then explains what Jeremiah saw.

Verse 27—the very next verse—makes an interesting statement..............
“Yet I will not make a full end.”

Verse 29 explains why Jeremiah saw no man:.........
“The whole city shall flee....They shall go into thickets and shall climb up on the rocks. Every city shall be forsaken, and not a man shall dwell in it.”

He saw no one because they had all run away.

Let’s go back to Isaiah. This time the article quotes Chapter 24, verses 19 to 22.

Absolutly agreed that there is going to be massive death and destruction on a scale comparable to the Great Flood. But where does it say that the earth will be uninhabited?

The very next verse says that God will reign in Jerusalem. Again there is no mention of a thousand year gap between these things.

And what about verse 6? It tells us that those who dwell in the earth are desolate, not that the earth is desolate.

It also tells us that after the destruction of those days that few men are left, not that no men are left.

Jesus says of those times in Matt. 24:22......
“if those days had not been shortened, no flesh would be saved.”

Isaiah 6:11-13 prophesies of this time and says that only one-tenth will be left, and they will be purified.

As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:50,......
“flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God”.

In verses 44 to 49 of the same chapter, God explains how those in the first resurrection will no longer have a body of flesh—a physical body—but instead will be given a new spiritual body, a Glorified body! (also Rev 20:4-6).

So the flesh saved is not those who are changed to spirit beings at the time of Christ’s Return. Nor have those in the flesh yet inherited God’s Kingdom, but they will be blessed by being allowed to dwell in it.

My advice to all is to not take what anyone says with out first READING THE BIBLE for yourself. Work to find the CONTEXT.

Notice.....every Scripture does not apply to YOU today! CONTEXT will tell you what is relaveant.

Example. I could tell you and quote the Scriptures that say "all will be saved who enter the Ark".

So do you think that is how men are saved today, by going into a BOAT????

NO! We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. The people 5000 years ago were saved by entering a boat but CONTEXT says it does not apply to us today.

 

[BobRyan]

"But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed".

And since since of the lost survive it as 2Thess 1 says... and since no humans are left on planet Earth according to Jer 4 -- just ruined cities as a result of the wrath of God according to Jer 4.

Since you are basing your whole Thesis on verse 21.....""the rest were killed",
then we should know who the "REST " are.

In the chapter "the rest" are those not killed when all the armies of earth are slain in Rev 19. Which leaves zero. The same result as in 2 Thess 1... the same result as "no humans" and "Earth Desolated" in Jer 4.

 

[BobRyan]

To continue.....The Seventh Day Adventist publication named " These Times also quotes Jeremiah in several places as have YOU Bob.

I am ok with them quoting Jer 4.

Jere. 25:30-33. As verse 33 states, the slain shall not be lamented, gathered or buried.

Jer 25:30-33

30 “Therefore you shall prophesy against them all these words, and you shall say to them,
‘The Lord will roar from on high
And raise His voice from His holy dwelling;
He will roar forcefully against His fold.
He will shout like those who tread the grapes,
Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A clamor has come to the end of the earth,
Because the Lord has a controversy with the nations.
He is entering into judgment with humanity;
As for the wicked, He has turned them over to the sword,’ declares the Lord.”

32 This is what the Lord of armies says:
“Behold, evil is going out
From nation to nation,
And a great storm is being stirred up
From the remotest parts of the earth.

33 “Those put to death by the Lord on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned, gathered, or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.


Verse 27—the very next verse—makes an interesting statement..............
“Yet I will not make a full end.”

Earth remains in ruined form during the 1000 years.

in OP we have this

Jer 4: NASB
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,

But where does it say that the earth will be uninhabited?

It does not say "no wicked man -- just saints remained" -- rather it says --
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,

Jer 4: NKJV
I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger.

Jer 4:25 NASB
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.

 

[Major1]

I am ok with them quoting Jer 4.



Jer 25:30-33

30 “Therefore you shall prophesy against them all these words, and you shall say to them,
‘The Lord will roar from on high
And raise His voice from His holy dwelling;
He will roar forcefully against His fold.
He will shout like those who tread the grapes,
Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A clamor has come to the end of the earth,
Because the Lord has a controversy with the nations.
He is entering into judgment with humanity;
As for the wicked, He has turned them over to the sword,’ declares the Lord.”

32 This is what the Lord of armies says:
“Behold, evil is going out
From nation to nation,
And a great storm is being stirred up
From the remotest parts of the earth.

33 “Those put to death by the Lord on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned, gathered, or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.


Verse 27—the very next verse—makes an interesting statement..............
“Yet I will not make a full end.”

Earth remains in ruined form during the 1000 years.

in OP we have this





It does not say "no wicked man -- just saints remained"

Jer 4: NKJV
I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger.

Jer 4:25 NASB
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.

Bob......I have read many of your posts and they are classic 7th Day Advantist! You do your denomination proud.

You have learned how to manipulate and twist Scriptures out of their CONTEXT and REAL HISTORY to fit into the scenario that you want them to say.

Now if anyone read our posts is interested......CONEXT is always the means of correct exegesis.

So the then The Context begin in Jeremiah 4:1 starts with this statement,

“If you will return, O Israel,” declares the LORD . . . !

This first verse tells us that God is speaking to the people of Israel. Then in Jeremiah 4:4 God warns them to repent of their sins or His wrath will come upon them. Then in verse 14, God warns them again,

Vs. 4............
"Wash your heart from evil, O Jerusalem, that you may be saved . . ."! (

God is warning them that destruction is coming upon the land of Israel unless they repent of their sins. The warnings continue.

Finally in verses 23-28, the destruction of the land of Israel is described in dramatic imagery. In order to show how serious God is, the prophet uses imagery from Genesis 1:2 and says the land will be “formless and void.”

Now, If we look at the verses just after this passage, we see soldiers, death, destruction, and people.

This means that Jeremiah 4:23-28 is describing a military invasion. Real Historical events tells us that it is the Babylonian army which did this. The description is the coming disaster upon the land of Israel and it is not any end time vision after Armageddon.

 

[Major1]

And since since of the lost survive it as 2Thess 1 says... and since no humans are left on planet Earth according to Jer 4 -- just ruined cities as a result of the wrath of God according to Jer 4.



In the chapter "the rest" are those not killed when all the armies of earth are slain in Rev 19. Which leaves zero. The same result as in 2 Thess 1... the same result as "no humans" and "Earth Desolated" in Jer 4.

You said........
" and since no humans are left on planet Earth according to Jer 4 -- just ruined cities as a result of the wrath of God according to Jer 4."

That is what you want to believe. The truth and real history tells us that it was the Babylonian invasion that Jeremiah pictured.

The words Jeremiah used came from Genesis 1.2 which portrays the original act of creation, when God brings order to the 'desolate and waste' primordial chaos, and assigns function to that which he creates.

Jeremiah 4.23 poetically describes judgment on Jerusalem, which is depicted as a reversal of creation; the world (of Israel) is brought back to a state of 'desolate and waste' disorder: mountains are leveled....
(4.24), the skies are emptied of birds
(4.25), farmland is made barren and
(4:26) cities are emptied of people etc.

Bob.....You are makeing those Scriptures say something that is not there.

The Babylonian's actually and historically invaded Israel in 597 BC.

 

[Major1]

And since since of the lost survive it as 2Thess 1 says... and since no humans are left on planet Earth according to Jer 4 -- just ruined cities as a result of the wrath of God according to Jer 4.



In the chapter "the rest" are those not killed when all the armies of earth are slain in Rev 19. Which leaves zero. The same result as in 2 Thess 1... the same result as "no humans" and "Earth Desolated" in Jer 4.

You said.............
"And since since of the lost survive it as 2Thess 1 says..

2 Thess. 1 actually says............
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Would you please tell me what verse do I find................
""And since since of the lost survive""??????

 

[Major1]

or in this case accurately quoting scriptures that some folks find "inconvenient"



Well that is for certain.

But there won't be any left on Earth at the start of the one thousand years according to Rev 19 "the rest were killed" as Jer 4 confirms for the "Earth was desolate" and "I looked and behold there were no humans" - nothing but ruined cities according to Jer 4.

and they will live in heaven and rule with Christ for the 1000s of Rev 20



A good example of a text that says nothing about a millennial kingdom on Earth starting at the second coming.




No doubt something like that happens in Rev 21 at the end of the millennium of Rev 20 -- but Dan 12:1 did not mention it. You had to add that info in your own comment - it is not in Dan 12:1



No doubt Earth does "exist" but Jer 4 says it is "desolate" with "no humans" -- during the 1000 years.

Only after 1000 have expired -- do you see humans on Earth in Rev 20. And that is because Rev 20 says -- 5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."

So as Rev 20:4-5 point out the "first resurrection" marks the start of the 1000 years (Rapture of the saints - 1 Thess 4:13-18) - and the second resurrection does not happen until the 1000 years are completed. Hence a desolated Earth - for that 1000 years.



As Jer 4 states - the Earth still exists during that time - but it is "desolate" and has no humans.

Take the time to actually read the first two posts of this thread --

Sorry my friend.........You have totally followed 7th Day Advantist theology and ignored Bible Scripture.

Jeremiah 4 IS NOT ABOUT THE END TIMES!

It is about the invasion of Babylon in 597 BC.

What the Advantist do is classic. Pick a Scripture that sound like it can fit our theology and then MAKE IT WORK no matter what real histroty says.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob......I have read many of your posts and they are classic 7th Day Advantist! You do your denomination proud.

Your argument just then appears to be of the form "only a Seventh-day Adventist would notice the Bible details you are bringing up".

Ok fair enough - I don't mind your having such a POV.

Jer 4 does not say "no wicked man -- just saints remained" -- rather it says --
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,

Jer 4: NKJV
I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger.

Jer 4:25 NASB
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.

 

[BobRyan]

Now if anyone read our posts is interested......CONEXT is always the means of correct exegesis.

So the then The Context begin in Jeremiah 4:1 starts with this statement,

“If you will return, O Israel,” declares the LORD . . . !

Anyone who has read the OT texts that point to future events already knows that context changes mid-chapter as we see in Is 14 and Ezek 28

Isaiah 14 speaks to TWO things at the same time... one is Lucifer and the other a local heathen king.

Is 14 NKJV:
Fall of the King of Babylon
3 It shall come to pass in the day the Lord gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve, 4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
The golden city ceased!
5 The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
The scepter of the rulers;
6 He who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke,
He who ruled the nations in anger,
Is persecuted and no one hinders.
7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
They break forth into singing.
8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you,
And the cedars of Lebanon,
Saying, ‘Since you were cut down,
No woodsman has come up against us.’

9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you,
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you:
‘Have you also become as weak as we?
Have you become like us?
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
And the sound of your stringed instruments;
The maggot is spread under you,
And worms cover you.’

The Fall of Lucifer
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,


EVEN the Bible translators "notice" just when you appear to claim that only Seventh-day Adventists would know about such things.

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who has read the OT texts that point to future events and pre-history of Christ and Satan - already knows that context changes mid-chapter as we see in Ezek 28

King of Tyre context -- switches to Lucifer (covering cherub on the mountain of God) created perfect then fallen.

Ezek 28 NKJV
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

 

[BobRyan]

You said........
" and since no humans are left on planet Earth according to Jer 4 -- just ruined cities as a result of the wrath of God according to Jer 4."

That is what you want to believe.

I am partial to the practice of believing what the Bible says -- I do admit that.

===================

Jer 4 does not say "no wicked man -- just saints remained" -- rather it says --
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,

Jer 4: NKJV
I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger.

Jer 4:25 NASB
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.

Sorry my friend.........You have totally followed 7th Day Advantist theology

Its called ... read the Bible... believe the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Jeremiah 4 IS NOT ABOUT THE END TIMES!

In reality here is what we find in Jer 4 that can only apply to end times .. even you have found no other place for these details from what I have seen.


SUMMARY of Jer 4 "Desolate Earth" text

1. The EARTH - without form and void - 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”

We know from Rev 20 that the Earth "still exists" in some form even after the 1000 years so God did not make "a complete end of it".

(An argument of the form: "ignore all that because some other texts address a different point in time" - I do not find compelling.)


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

=========================

No one left to bury the dead - so corpses left on the ground and birds consume them.

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

===========

details matter

 

[BobRyan]

You said.............
"And since since of the lost survive it as 2Thess 1 says..

2 Thess. 1 actually says............
...
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

indeed.

6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Would you please tell me what verse do I find................
""And since since of the lost survive""??????

The lost are those who:
1. obey not the gospel
2. Know not God

as it turns out.

======================

If your solution is of the form -- "only a Seventh-day Adventist would notice the Bible details you are bringing up"... I am not entirely opposed to your having that POV. You do have free will.

 

[Major1]

indeed.

6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;



The lost are those who:
1. obey not the gospel
2. Know not God

as it turns out.

======================

If your solution is of the form -- "only a Seventh-day Adventist would notice the Bible details you are bringing up"... I am not entirely opposed to your having that POV. You do have free will.

2 Thess. 1:6-12 that you posted does not say ONE SINGLE word about a "desolate" earth.

What is in view is the judgment of God!

You said........
"The lost are those who:
1. obey not the gospel
2. Know not God"

WOW! That is a news flash!

 

[Major1]

In reality here is what we find in Jer 4 that can only apply to end times .. even you have found no other place for these details from what I have seen.


SUMMARY of Jer 4 "Desolate Earth" text

1. The EARTH - without form and void - 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”

We know from Rev 20 that the Earth "still exists" in some form even after the 1000 years so God did not make "a complete end of it".

(An argument of the form: "ignore all that because some other texts address a different point in time" - I do not find compelling.)


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

=========================

No one left to bury the dead - so corpses left on the ground and birds consume them.

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

===========

details matter

**** REAL HISTORY and CONTEXT**** is always needed for proper understanding.

Jeremiah 4 is about the coming BABYALONIAN invasion in 597 BC. and not the 2nd Coming of Christ!