Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

[BobRyan]

Adventists teach that at the Rev 19 premillennial appearing of Christ the saints are raptured to heaven and the Earth is left desolate:

-- "The Millenium is the thousand year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged, the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants"​

ok... so what does the Bible say?

SUMMARY of Jer 4 "Desolate Earth" text

1. The EARTH - without form and void - 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”

We know from Rev 20 that the Earth "still exists" in some form even after the 1000 years so God did not make "a complete end of it".

(An argument of the form: "ignore all that because some other texts address a different point in time" - I do not find compelling.)


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

=========================

No one left to bury the dead - so corpses left on the ground and birds consume them.

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[BobRyan]

Both OT and NT refer to the corpses left and birds eating dead remains

Jer 25:33
“Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.


Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Zeph 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

 

[BobRyan]

This means the return of Christ to reign on Earth is not until Rev 20 at the lake of fire event... and what follows is the Rev 21 New Earth

 

[BobRyan]

And of course we have the Bible teaching that the saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ (the rapture of 1 Thess 4:13-18)

Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

 

[Daniel Marsh]

interresting

 

[pdudgeon]

Not quite, I think.
First we have the two prophets who have been waiting in Heaven.
They come back to Jerusalem and preach one last time to the Jews who are still alive after all the plagues.
This is their last chance to accept Jesus as their long awaited Messiah and King.
At the end of that time, they are killed, and those who follow satan make war one last time against Jerusalem.

 

[BobRyan]

Not quite, I think.
First we have the two prophets who have been waiting in Heaven.
They come back to Jerusalem and preach one last time to the Jews who are still alive after all the plagues.
This is their last chance to accept Jesus as their long awaited Messiah and King.
At the end of that time, they are killed, and those who follow satan make war one last time against Jerusalem.

I think you have missed the subject of this thread. It discusses the events of Rev 19 at the appearing of Christ after the Rev 16 tribulation of the 7 last plagues - and then the Rev 20 millennium that follows.

There is no "come back to Jerusalem and preach" in Rev 19...

Rather Rev 19 ends with "the rest were killed"

And results in the Jer 4 desolate Earth condition in the OP --

1. The EARTH - without form and void - 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

 

[Andrewn]

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

If the earth is desolate, whom does satan deceive? Who are the nations who gather for battle?

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be set free from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea.

 

[BobRyan]

If the earth is desolate, whom does satan deceive? Who are the nations who gather for battle?

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be set free from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:1-5 says that the "first resurrection" takes place at the start of the 1000 years which is at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ. It is the resurrection of the saints "blessed and holy" and the text says "over these the second death (lake of fire) has no power".

"THE REST of the dead come to life after the 1000 years" Rev 20:5 (the 2nd resurrection)
And so it is "AFTER the 1000 years Satan is released and deceives the nations" Rev 20:7-8
But during the 1000 years there is no one to deceive.

Your question makes it appear that during the 1000 years Satan is deceiving the nations... but that cannot happen until AFTER the 1000 years since the wicked lost "did not come to life until AFTER the 1000 years"

 

[SkyWriting]

Dem Bones, Dem Bones, dem dry bones.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Yes it will be desolate, until Christ establishes a new Kingdom on Earth. There are lots of verses about it. The Dead Sea becomes fresh, rivers flow from Jerusalem, a new mountain will appear that will be the highest of mountains, all nations shall come to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, all nations will worship Yahweh, the Earth will be filled with the knowledge of Yahweh, David will be king in Jerusalem, a high plain will appear from Geba to Rimmon, etc. The Millenium is on Earth.

Try Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 66 for starters.

 

[BobRyan]

the saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ (the rapture of 1 Thess 4:13-18)

Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

And of course no humans left alive on Earth for that 1000 years which is immediately after the Rev 19 (2Thess 1) event as we see on page one of this thread.

Yes it will be desolate, until Christ establishes a new Kingdom on Earth.

Very true - we see humans will once again be on Earth after the millennium when all the wicked are raised at the second resurrection and all the saints have returned with Christ and are in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Torah Keeper]

And of course no humans left alive on Earth for that 1000 years which is immediately after the Rev 19 (2Thess 1) event as we see on page one of this thread.



Very true - we see humans will once again be on Earth after the millennium when all the wicked are raised at the second resurrection and all the saints have returned with Christ and are in the New Jerusalem.

I meant it will be desolate for about a day. The verses about locations on our current Earth indicate that the Millennium will be on our current Earth, after it has been baptized with fire.

I don't think the new Earth will still have the Dead Sea, Geba, Rimmon, Mt. Zion, and a 40 mile wide Jerusalem.

The New Jerusalem in Revelation is about 1500 miles wide. This obviously has to be after the Millenium otherwise it would cover
half the Mediterranean Sea, about half the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and North Africa. Egypt would be inside the New Jerusalem. But we see in Zechariah 14 that Egypt is still a nation during the Millenium, and Jerusalem is normal size (although bigger than today, not 1500 miles wide).

 

[BobRyan]

I meant it will be desolate for about a day. .

So at the second coming in your view there is a whole day where there are no humans on Earth and all cities on Earth in ruins? and no one to bury the dead so birds are feasting on the corpses./??

 

[Bob Crowley]

With the appearance of Christ there won't be anything left.

There won't be a "Rapture" either, but there will be a second coming, date and time unknown. It will be a cataclysmic event.

The universe was created from nothing, adds up to nothing (sum-zero energy universe) and will go back to nothing when God's finished with it, which will coincide with the Second Coming.

What's the Total Energy In the Universe?

One possibility I suppose is that God might use the Higgs Boson to do the job. Stephen Hawking used to worry about it.

For all we know the boundary of the known universe is rolling up even now at the speed of light and invisible to us for that reason. Mind you that's conjecture. But God will do the job somehow.

Stephen Hawking: 'God particle' could destroy the universe: Stephen Hawking - The Economic Times

 

[BobRyan]

With the appearance of Christ there won't be anything left.

There won't be a "Rapture" either,

1 Thess 4:13-18 says there will be a rapture

Matt 24 says there will be a rapture "from one end of the sky to the other" - "immediately AFTER" great tribulation

John 14:1-3 says Jesus comes to take us "to His Father's house". - a rapture

so then --

Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

 

[Torah Keeper]

With the appearance of Christ there won't be anything left.

There won't be a "Rapture" either, but there will be a second coming, date and time unknown. It will be a cataclysmic event.

The universe was created from nothing, adds up to nothing (sum-zero energy universe) and will go back to nothing when God's finished with it, which will coincide with the Second Coming.

What's the Total Energy In the Universe?

One possibility I suppose is that God might use the Higgs Boson to do the job. Stephen Hawking used to worry about it.

For all we know the boundary of the known universe is rolling up even now at the speed of light and invisible to us for that reason. Mind you that's conjecture. But God will do the job somehow.

Stephen Hawking: 'God particle' could destroy the universe: Stephen Hawking - The Economic Times

Reminds me of the verse about God rolling up the Heavens as a garment to be changed. Interesting.

 

[Major1]

This means the return of Christ to reign on Earth is not until Rev 20 at the lake of fire event... and what follows is the Rev 21 New Earth

With all due respect, I think you are miapplying Scriptures to suppoer your personal agenda.

There will be humans who survive the Tribulation and they will live in the 1000 year rule of Christ.

Daniel 12:1...........
"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

The Church which is the bride of Christ will reside in New Jerusalem and regin with Christ with David as the viceregent.

An uncountable number will enter the Kingdom in natural bodies because they did not die. These will be the ones together with those who are born during the Millenium who are to be tested during this time.

The Church, in glorified bodies will be able to move in and out as they please.

There HAS to be a physical Earth that has not been totally destroyed because we read in Rev. 30:7-9........
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

IF the Earth was totally destroyed......Then this 2nd Battle of Gog & Magog could not take place!!!!!

 

[Major1]

Reminds me of the verse about God rolling up the Heavens as a garment to be changed. Interesting.

When Revelation 21:1 and 2 Peter 3:10 say that the present earth and heavens will ‘pass away,’ it does not necessarily have to mean that they go out of existence. There are many, many scholars who have detailed that it may mean that there will be such a change in them that their present condition passes away.

The idea would be something like.....‘The caterpillar passes away, and the butterfly emerges.’ There is a real passing away, and there is a real continuity, a real connection.”

Consider this.....If God would have to annihilate the present cosmos, Satan would have won a great victory. . . . Satan would have succeeded in so devastatingly corrupting the present cosmos and the present earth that God could do nothing with it but to blot it totally out of existence.

That would mean that Satan is more powerful than God who created him.

But.....Because God gave us HIs written Word, we know Satan did not win such a victory. On the contrary, Satan has been decisively defeated. God will reveal the full dimensions of that defeat when He shall renew this very earth on which Satan deceived mankind and finally banish from it all the results of Satan’s evil workings.

 

[Major1]

1 Thess 4:13-18 says there will be a rapture

Matt 24 says there will be a rapture "from one end of the sky to the other" - "immediately AFTER" great tribulation

John 14:1-3 says Jesus comes to take us "to His Father's house". - a rapture

so then --

Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

To argue that there is NO Rapture, is to discount the Scriptures.

The question has always been.......WHEN, not IF.

Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind:....
“Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Revelation 20:4-6 tells us about a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy."

The Rapture as it has become popular to say in the last 200 years is actually part of the 1st Resurrection of saints.

Jesus was the 1st fruits.
(1 Corinthians 15:20--But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.)

Then there was was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53).

Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 which we today call the RAPTURE.

And then resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation in Revelation 20:4.

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” in John 5:29.

Now then....The event which divides the first and second resurrections, according to the Scriptures is the Millennial Kingdom.

IF...IF all the earth is to be totally destroyed as posted in the OP...then how do this BIBLE events take place???????

The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5).

Do the Work.
Do the study!!!!