Not the problem of evil

[Paradoxum]

Do you think the flip side to the 'problem of evil', is the 'problem of human goodness'?

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to. For example, modern medicine heals many more people than God does. If this weren't true, better healthcare wouldn't extend life expectancy... because God would have been doing the job previously.

Soon humans will be able to heal those who cannot walk. A God could have done this before, but the terribly sick and disabled still exist until humans find new treatments.

Do you think this is a comparable flip side to the problem of evil.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving... why do limited, fallible, and imperfect humans do more good than God?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to. For example, modern medicine heals many more people than God does. If this weren't true, better healthcare wouldn't extend life expectancy... because God would have been doing the job previously.

Who's to say that God doesn't work through modern medicine?

 

[quatona]

Do you think the flip side to the 'problem of evil', is the 'problem of human goodness'?

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to. For example, modern medicine heals many more people than God does. If this weren't true, better healthcare wouldn't extend life expectancy... because God would have been doing the job previously.

Soon humans will be able to heal those who cannot walk. A God could have done this before, but the terribly sick and disabled still exist until humans find new treatments.

Do you think this is a comparable flip side to the problem of evil.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving... why do limited, fallible, and imperfect humans do more good than God?

Well, if God created the world, all those improvements must be ascribed to God.
I don´t know, though, how - once we follow this line of reasoning - all the not so pretty stuff can be not ascribed to his creation, but that would get us back to the PoE.

 

[Autumnleaf]

How much longer should people live than they would naturally live? In time everything wears out and none of us will make it out of here alive.

 

[humbleServant77]

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to.

Either that or God told us this is how things work from the very beginning - and He was right.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you think the flip side to the 'problem of evil', is the 'problem of human goodness'?

I cannot believe a lot in human goodness now days. Too many experiences being screwed over by people with authority. And it happens with every government, so I don't play politics with it. People are just not good meting out justice.

You have bought too much into secular humanism and you really believe their lies. This gets worse though because it leads to a hardness of heart regarding the true suffering that exists in the world and your own moral accountability in it.

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to. For example, modern medicine heals many more people than God does.

Many medical advances have been inspired by faith in God. To say nothing of the number of hospitals directly funded by churches and religious bodies.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

In the RCC mass theres a quote basically saying 'all good things come from God'. I think that God and faith have been our model of reality for millenia, but there is a paradigm shift underway...

 

[Inkfingers]

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving... why do limited, fallible, and imperfect humans do more good than God?

Can any human make a universe in which love and charity exist? I'd say that outweighs the balance quite significantly, wouldn't you?

Beyond which, God works through humans:

• “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3)
• “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7)
• “No one has authority unless it is given them” (John 19:11)
• “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Proverbs 16:4)

 

[Euler]

Either that or God told us this is how things work from the very beginning - and He was right.

It's strange isn't it? The religious will often tell us that we are 'foolish to trust in man'. But then, when people like you point out that it's men that make our lives better, the excuse then shifts to "well, men might be doing it, but there's a god behind it."

Kinda rings a little hollow, huh?

 

[madaz]

I cannot believe a lot in human goodness now days.

That's understandable, now days we have too many zealots, slaughtering innocents in the name of God.

Too many experiences being screwed over by people with authority. And it happens with every government, so I don't play politics with it.

If you do not vote for your desired party, you are not without blame.

People are just not good meting out justice.

So who would be better at meting out our justice?

You have bought too much into secular humanism and you really believe their lies. This gets worse though because it leads to a hardness of heart regarding the true suffering that exists in the world and your own moral accountability in it.

Source?

On the contrary, religious dogma leads to a hardness of heart regarding the true suffering that exists in the world and your own moral accountability in it.

For example-


No child should suffer or die for the sake of their parents’ religious dogma – yet all too often they do.

Between 1975 to 1995, the most comprehensive study of the issue found at least 172 children died due to faith-based medical neglect. That number has only increased since.

Many medical advances have been inspired by faith in God.

The vast majority of medical advances have been inspired by the secular world.

To say nothing of the number of hospitals directly funded by churches and religious bodies.

Of the 13% of religious hospitals, all of them are maintained by public funds. Those public funds are not paid for exclusively by the religious, they certainly aren’t supported by American churches. If the religious hospitals were to be truly religious and separated from secular governmental subsidies they would collapse.

Religious hospitals get 36% of all their revenue from Medicare; public hospitals get only 27%. In addition to that 36% of public funding they get 12% of their funding from Medicaid. Of the remaining 44% of funding, 31% comes from county appropriations, 30% comes from investments, and only 5% comes from charitable contributions (not necessarily religious). The percentage of Church funding for Church-run hospitals comes to a grand total of 0.0015 percent.

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[keith99]

Who's to say that God doesn't work through modern medicine?

So God could have done this but withheld it from earlier generations?

He can't take credit now without taking the blame for not doing it earlier.

 

[Paradoxum]

Who's to say that God doesn't work through modern medicine?

Physics and biology?

God didn't heal people before X technology was invented, so that still makes him a bad guy.

Well, if God created the world, all those improvements must be ascribed to God.

I wouldn't say that gives God any right to claim credit for what we have done.

People bring in weird assumptions about God. I think if a different word and mythology was being talking about, people wouldn't give so much credit to powerful, yet uncaring beings.

How much longer should people live than they would naturally live? In time everything wears out and none of us will make it out of here alive.

Perhaps they should ideally live as long as they want to.

Either that or God told us this is how things work from the very beginning - and He was right.

So do you agree that humans are more moral than God? You don't really say anything relevant in your reply. God telling us things will be bad, doesn't take him off the hook.

 

[quatona]

Physics and biology?

God didn't heal people before X technology was invented, so that still makes him a bad guy.

I wouldn't say that gives God any right to claim credit for what we have done.

This depends a lot on theological details. If accepting the claim that everything unfolds according to God´s plan, I can´t see any way around giving him credit for creating a plan that contains solutions to problems he created, in the first place.

People bring in weird assumptions about God. I think if a different word and mythology was being talking about, people wouldn't give so much credit to powerful, yet uncaring beings.

Well, even if God died or withdrew immediately after creation, I would still have to give him credit for everything that unfolds according to his plan.

 

[Paradoxum]

I cannot believe a lot in human goodness now days. Too many experiences being screwed over by people with authority. And it happens with every government, so I don't play politics with it. People are just not good meting out justice.

More people are healed my modern medicine than God. Do you agree?

Do you agree that that makes us better than God?

You have bought too much into secular humanism and you really believe their lies. This gets worse though because it leads to a hardness of heart regarding the true suffering that exists in the world and your own moral accountability in it.

You know, assuming you know what other people believe, makes you look self-centred, ignorant, and narrow-minded.

I obviously know that many people suffer greatly in the world.

Many medical advances have been inspired by faith in God. To say nothing of the number of hospitals directly funded by churches and religious bodies.

Yeah, people. People die of X. People look for ways to cure them, and then cure them. God could cure them, but doesn't, so people suffer and die.

That makes humans better than God. No? God didn't save them did he.

Can any human make a universe in which love and charity exist? I'd say that outweighs the balance quite significantly, wouldn't you?

No... I wouldn't say it even makes a tiny difference.

1) Having greater ability to do good doesn't make you more moral. Jesus even said that. A poor person giving their last coin is more righteous than a rich person giving millions.

2) Humans would be in favour of creating a good universe, AND healing people. God only does one... so humans are better than God.

Humans heal more people than God. Does this make humans better than God?

Beyond which, God works through humans:

• “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3)
• “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7)
• “No one has authority unless it is given them” (John 19:11)
• “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Proverbs 16:4)

If God cared, he would work beyond humans. If I could click my fingers and heal millions, I would. God has that power, but doesn't use it. This makes me better than God, doesn't it?

People are dying of disease X. Humans are trying to, and will, heal them eventually. God can heal them, but doesn't.

This makes us better than God doesn't it? We do the best we can... while God doesn't try at all, and just tries to take credit for the work of others.

 

[2B4gotN]

No human being can do more good than God. Human beings combined together cannot do more good than God.

God works through us, thus, He is doing the good.

Do you think the flip side to the 'problem of evil', is the 'problem of human goodness'?

By this, I mean the idea that humans do more good than God seems to. For example, modern medicine heals many more people than God does. If this weren't true, better healthcare wouldn't extend life expectancy... because God would have been doing the job previously.

Soon humans will be able to heal those who cannot walk. A God could have done this before, but the terribly sick and disabled still exist until humans find new treatments.

Do you think this is a comparable flip side to the problem of evil.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving... why do limited, fallible, and imperfect humans do more good than God?

 

[Euler]

No human being can do more good than God.

Quite clearly we can. We have worked to find cures to many diseases. If your God is as powerful and as loving as you would claim, he would have done it, as Paradoxum says, with a click of his fingers.

He didn't.

We did.

We've done more good than God.

 

[2B4gotN]

Quite clearly we can. We have worked to find cures to many diseases. If your God is as powerful and as loving as you would claim, he would have done it, as Paradoxum says, with a click of his fingers.

He didn't.

We did.

We've done more good than God.

As I've already said, God is the one working through us.

 

[Euler]

As I've already said, God is the one working through us.

A claim for which you can present absolutely no evidence. I might just as easily claim that it's the gnome at the bottom of my garden that's the inspiration.

The only thing that we do have evidence for, is that humans have achieved those things.

 

[humbleServant77]

It's strange isn't it? The religious will often tell us that we are 'foolish to trust in man'. But then, when people like you point out that it's men that make our lives better, the excuse then shifts to "well, men might be doing it, but there's a god behind it."

Kinda rings a little hollow, huh?

No, not at all. Why would you think that?

 

[humbleServant77]

So do you agree that humans are more moral than God? You don't really say anything relevant in your reply. God telling us things will be bad, doesn't take him off the hook.

God didn't tell us things would be bad, He told us about our role of responsibility. Shirking that does not make us moral. Blaming others for our own screw ups does not make us moral. Trying to compare our own morality, a strictly human idea, to Divinity, certainly doesn't help us in any way. It'd be like saying your ladder is more apple. Apples and ladders can both be good, but there aren't a lot of situations where they combine well.