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Not sure what to believe...

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braka

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I'm sure this type of thread is fairly common, but I figure I'll post anyway. If anyone can relate and offer advice their experiences it would be much appreciated...

Religion was part of my life from the day I was born.

My mother was the daughter of two protestant missionaries. Although their work was the more convetional.. my grandfather was an accountant.. my mother still had to put up with hardships for the sake of her parents faith. She remained a Christian and tried to raise my brother and I as Christians to no avail. As in most families, "Dad" was the law, not God. Although my mother could threaten or speak of the grace of god, it was the threat or grace of Dad that compelled my brother and I to act.

My father was born to a pretty waitress and her sailor husband. Tragedy ensued. My father's mother is an alcoholic, now recovering, and bi-polar. She behaves like a child and has been married 5 times in the course of her life. My grandfather sired my father and his brother, then more children in a second marriage. My father's brother killed himself when my father was 12, and my father's step-brother killed himself later.

Out of this hell, my father pulled himself through state college and onto success in New York, an MBA, and marriage to my mother. I was born, we moved to Kuwait where my father could gain business experience, then to England, where my younger brother was born. And finally back to the US when I was 9.

I was forced to go to church, and despite my interest the the stories of the bible I resented the idea of morality for morality's sake. I resented the idea that because jesus was a good man, all interpretations of his words must be good.

I was sent to Christian summer camp that was fun, but lacked any gravity. Most of the campmates were Christians, and I wanted to believe, but when it came down to it, I believed, then the belief faded and I was left with reality as it had been.

From the time I came back to the US I felt alone. We lived in an affluent suburb of Boston. Children would go to church then I would see them violating the morals they had so correctly repeated in sunday school.

I was disgusted and felt that the only way to not be left behind or eaten was to skill myself. I taugh myself to program, went to a good private school, and began to drink and smoke pot to socialize... I started seeing a therapist.

When I was not drunk or high I was angry and the cliques and felt like an outsider. Religion was almost non-existant. In my senior year of high school, our headmaster asked an english class "Who believes the body posseses a spirit?" One girl raised her hand.

Life went up and down. I attended a good state school that was a safety school for me.. I had not paid attention to my grades. I began to drink heavily with friends... I dropped classes, smoked pot, Aced computer science classes. I was brough on as an intern at a financial services company for $30/hr.. I acted like a clown and did not do any meaningful work. The next summer, I began having social problems at work and ended the internship early.

I began to drink alcoholically, smoked pot, and did other drugs when available.

This lasted for a year or so until my parents told me to get sober or get out. I started go to AA meetings and have been sober for 2 years.

The AA program is centered around the concept of a "higher power of our own understanding." Indeed, I have been told that the purpose of AA is to help the individual develop a relationship with a higher power.

I pray daily, often in desperation, and it calms me. The idea that I'm not alone, and even if no one around me likes me, I am still accepted and loved by God is a great comfort.

Kind of running out of steam on this post, but, I don't accept Jesus as the son of god. I'm close, and maybe I will at some point, but the doubt still exists. How much of religion is an opiate for the masses? How much of my God is an opiate for me... to insulate me from the truth of my failures? Also, I find spirituality in AA, but is church just a facade for networking? I don't know...

I continue to "work" the program, and am in a stage where I write down my resentments, fears, etc.. in an attempt to recognize the faults in my mental faculty. However, I feel all I may be doing is wrapping my lack of spirit and human connection in layers.

I'm not connected to people, and in almost every interaction, I find myself sparring between the lines and trying to take control of people.

If anyone struggles with the same issues, please do tell what works for you.
 

swifteagle

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Congratulations on being sober for 2+ years!!

Certainly sounds like you've had your share of "religion". You know, the Lord is not far from you. I am sure that you KNOW that He has been wooing you for quite a long time. It's just that there is alot of hurts and wounding in your past and probably alot of religiousness! Ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you. I will pray that for you too! He wants to bring healing into your life and overwhelm you with His love. There is so much that the Lord wants to do in all of our lives but WE get in the way, ie. our minds, intellect, worry, frustration, disappointment. Just put those things aside and ask Him to come in and pour strength, love & grace into your life.

His love reaches to You!

Blessings,

Swifteagle ><>
 
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heron

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braka, welcome here. I hope you have a better experience with believers than you've had in the past.

We all have had problems with others Christians in the past--but as someone said on another thread yesterday, they found hypocrisy everywhere. Just because one agrees to believe in something, does not make them an expert in it, or a good representative of it.

The kids in school might have been raised as you were, with the faith a part of their parents' lives but not their own.

It sounds as though your parents used religion to get you to do what they wanted. That's a painful thing to go through, because choosing to follow their religion is like giving in to say they were right...scooping up all their errors and oppression along with the belief system. In cases like that, Christianity can represent control, or humiliation, or denial of the child's identity.

I've had times in my life when I couldn't trust churches, tried to avoid them imposing things on me. I took that time to know God better for myself, to make Him alone my rock. As you said, church can often be an excuse for networking...or looking respectable...or competing with others...or babysitting...or pickups...or political favor...whatever. But God is still God, even when we have selfish ambitions.

I would suggest you listen to some radio speakers, read, and try to enrich your own life in a way that you feel safe from vanity, shallowness, oppression. Look for guest speakers in your area, and get a feel for what's out there.

A's in computer science--I know the level of intelligence that implies. Your mind is not wrapping around a belief system that doesn't come across with the original power it claims.

That's okay. Saul, later known as the apostle Paul, was brilliant and religious, but went door to door pulling Christians out of their homes. His own critical analysis of the religion upset him. Then one day, Jesus appeared to him face to face, and said "Saul, why are you persecuting me?"

Don't feel guilty about using God as a personal opiate. He wants a relationship with each person.

On Christianity and Jesus..feel free to mention what parts you are not comfortable with. Jesus spoke against the religious leaders' hypocrisy (ha, does that sound familiar) and accomplishing things through our faith, and being set free just by believing. He walked through town and had compassion on the needy, setting them free from ailments that had bothered them their whole lives.

People tend to turn that back into a set of rules. Most of God's rules point toward defending the needy.
 
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braka

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Thank you for your kind words, it is tough.. a few weeks ago I was very angry and after a meeting the thought occured to me "maybe there is another way." I felt like the thought did not originate with me. I've been reading books in search of an answer. Lance Armstrong's autobio, People's History of the United States, Wealth of Nations.. today when I read your posts, and teared up.. something that doesn't usually happen for me... I thought "maybe I'm reading the wrong book."

Might be time to pick up the bible and give it a read.

Ty
 
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Sketcher

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Hey. Glad to see you're searching and checking God out.

Don't worry about using God as an opiate - the only way you can really do that is if you start claiming that He promised you something that He never did in the Bible. And there are plenty of legit promises in there that you'll want to discover and claim for your life.

I do hope that you come to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and forgiveness for your sins. You'll have secured eternal life and began a new one on Earth for His glory - you can't lose with that. There are still things I worry about, but truth, where I'm headed, my purpose in life - those things are pretty solid now that I've confirmed my faith in Jesus.

I think I'll pray for you right now.
 
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heron

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Ty,
it touched me that you admit "I find myself sparring between the lines and trying to take control of people."

We usually have valid reasons for our anger, and not getting agreement from others sometimes leads us to push harder. A sense of justice is good...holding onto the emotions can drain us over time. You know that.

Keep praying and connecting to God, even if it's just a rehash of your day.

You might enjoy Proverbs, or John.
 
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AlikhnKwizad

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Wow- I can relate.

I won't go into it all now, but I do understand.

What did I do? I took "Religion" and threw it out. I read the Bible and asked G-d to reveal Himself to me.

I was the little girl in sunday school who asked all the "hard" questions... and NEVER got a satisfying answer. But I kept seeking G-d. I knew He was very real... and I wanted to KNOW Him. There were so many times I came across people with such a shallow, narrow, Biblethumping view of G-d & the world that it made me crazy! But I vented my frustrations to G-d, kept studying scripture, praying for G-d to speak to my spirit & reveal His Nature to me... and you know what? He did.

If you are anaylitical like me, this might help...

1) Learn the context of scripture for yourself. Who wrote it? When? What was the political situation during that time? Etc. That way, when you read the Bible, it will make SO MUCH MORE sense.
2) Don't get bogged down in the details. There is a time to study detail, and a time to step back & veiw the entire picture... see how the pieces fit together as a whole.

Humans are not perfect beings. It's ok to mess up, it's ok to get it wrong, it's ok to express emotion, it's ok to admit people have hurt you deeply.

If G-d is working on you (and it sounds like He is) then let Him work. Yes, pain will come up, and it might be very hard to go through... but you will be a stronger person once you got through the difficult time.

And by 'stronger' I don't mean the American version of a 'strong person'... the extremely individualistic, self-made, non-emotional person. The strength it takes to cry on someone's shoulder, to admit our hurt, to be open and reveal the wounded places in our soul... that's harder- but more profound.

Many times G-d reveals His Nature (who He is) to us through hardship. Don't give up, keep seeking Him. HaShem SEES you. He KNOWS you. And He is inviting you to seek HIM out.

Keep your eyes on G-d and not other people. People will always let you down. There will always be those more intellectual than you and more shallow than you... hypicrites (sp?) and legalists... and those who insult G-d with their version of "grace" ('I can do what I want, it's ok 'cause G-d forgives me.')

gatta go--- one last thing...ALWAYS ask questions!!! :) And study for youself the meaning of scripture... Shalom!
 
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LoG

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braka said:
I continue to "work" the program, and am in a stage where I write down my resentments, fears, etc.. in an attempt to recognize the faults in my mental faculty. However, I feel all I may be doing is wrapping my lack of spirit and human connection in layers.
Way to go braka, the fourth Step is not always easy but very worthwhile.
From a Christian perspective it is listing the things I wanted/needed to repent of.
I've been in AA for over 11 years and still go to about 3-4 meetings a week. Not because I have to but because I want to.
I'm not connected to people, and in almost every interaction, I find myself sparring between the lines and trying to take control of people.
Heh, being that you are 2 years in the program, you are seeing some codependency issues coming up. You're right were you are supposed to be. Your connection to other people will start getting better as you progress further into the Steps, especially halfway through nine when the promises start to take effect.

If anyone struggles with the same issues, please do tell what works for you.

Christianity and the Steps do not conflict with each other. The meetings I attend have quite a few Christians in them in fact. I relate very well to your story as we have some similarities in our backround.

Step 3 was a a real bonus for me in that it gave me the permission to develop my own perception of God. The way I did that was by putting aside the "religion" of my parents and the perceptions I had from various sermons in my younger years and started to read the bible for what it said in black and white as opposed to what others told me it said. It sometimes was a struggle to put aside the idea of a condemning God so that I could see His loving qualities and see that they are relevant for me now that I have stepped from the dark into the light.
A lot more I'd like to say but this will do for now. Just remember, it's a day at a time.

Feel free to PM or continue posting here if you have any questions regarding either the Steps or how it relates to Christianity.
 
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braka

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Ty all for the feedback, I've read this thread more than once.

There is a great site with archived sermons, found a compilation called the revival hymn that was rhetorical but very touching.

Some quotes resonated with me..

"Awake. Awake. Put on strength. Wake it up you sleepy Christians...Arise from the dead. God will give you life."

"Keep this in mind from an old man: There is no finality to the Christian life..."

"We pray that some of up may go to our own funeral tonight, and die to serve and end all the failure and all the weakness."

"Are you saved? What are you saved from? Are you saved from lust? Are you saved from hell? Are you saved from rebelling against your parents?"

"You knew one thing about a man who was carrying a cross out of the city. You knew he wasn't coming back."

"Why in God's name do you expect to be accepted everywhere. How is it the world couldn't get on with the holiest man that ever lived and it can get on with you and me. Are we compromised? Do we have no spiritual stature? Have we no righteousness to reflect on their corruption?"

and...

"We're in grave danger when we let our accomplishments become the ground of our confidence. How we want to be esteemed.. how we want to be respected. How people should realize what precious gifts of the spirit I've given. Do you know why they don't? Because you stink with pride."

That last one is me to a T... will continue the work, Ty all. God bless.
 
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forgivenmuch

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I Know Where You Are, I Have Been There. The Only Advice I Can Give You Is To Pray To God And Ask Him To Cleanse You From All The Religion You Have Or Had And Start Over. You Need To Lose What You Have Learned Because That Is Not Who Jesus Is Really About. You Need To Understand That You Never Knew Who He Was Because You Was Forced Into Knowing Him And You Wanted To Do The Right Things But You Never Felt It. Start A New , Pray To Him , Read Your Bible, And Tell God To Cleanse You From Everything You Once Knew. Tell God You Want To Know Him For Who He Really Is. Its Hard To Go Back, But You Can. I Will Be In Prayer For You, God Bless You.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I have been down this road.... I offer you my prayers....

And... if you would, I will teach you the most calming prayer of all...

It's very short... easy to remember...

O Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Repeat as often as you can, especially when confronted with adversity.

Learn to pray it without ceasing, inside, while concentrating on your heart.

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me...
 
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braka

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Anti Existance said:

Thx for the link. My grandfather was clinically dead after a stroke then came back after a point.. heard 2nd hand that he had a white light experience. What I heard him say was "God must have more work for me."

During sunday school one of our teachers asked us what we thought hell was like. People conjured up all sorts of horrific images and stories. My answer was "heaven and hell would be the same thing, complete understanding. If there truly is a right and wrong, then complete understanding of right and wrong would be punishment enough."
 
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In A Perfect World

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braka said:
My father was born to a pretty waitress and her sailor husband. Tragedy ensued. My father's mother is an alcoholic, now recovering, and bi-polar. She behaves like a child and has been married 5 times in the course of her life. My grandfather sired my father and his brother, then more children in a second marriage. My father's brother killed himself when my father was 12, and my father's step-brother killed himself later.


I began to drink alcoholically, smoked pot, and did other drugs when available.

This lasted for a year or so until my parents told me to get sober or get out. I started go to AA meetings and have been sober for 2 years.

The AA program is centered around the concept of a "higher power of our own understanding." Indeed, I have been told that the purpose of AA is to help the individual develop a relationship with a higher power.

I pray daily, often in desperation, and it calms me. The idea that I'm not alone, and even if no one around me likes me, I am still accepted and loved by God is a great comfort.

Kind of running out of steam on this post, but, I don't accept Jesus as the son of god. I'm close, and maybe I will at some point, but the doubt still exists. How much of religion is an opiate for the masses? How much of my God is an opiate for me... to insulate me from the truth of my failures? Also, I find spirituality in AA, but is church just a facade for networking? I don't know...

Screw AA. It really is ****. People meet at churches to discuss their latest **** ups, and its hardly anon since you'll most likely bump into people you know there, although its proper to not discuss this outside work.

AA is flawed in that it tells other people they CAN'T help themselves and they need some higher power to get better. That's a depressing thought scheme my friend! You can find help within yourself! You've GOTTA do it yourself in order to reap the benefits, satisfaction, and the ultimate desire to drop alcohol. If you want to, PM me and I might be able to find alternatives to AA.
 
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LoG

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In A Perfect World said:
AA is flawed in that it tells other people they CAN'T help themselves and they need some higher power to get better. That's a depressing thought scheme my friend! You can find help within yourself! You've GOTTA do it yourself in order to reap the benefits, satisfaction, and the ultimate desire to drop alcohol. If you want to, PM me and I might be able to find alternatives to AA.

Share the wealth. Tell us what worked for you.:)
 
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simplicity

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Hi, braka. There are a lot of posts so I apologize if I miss some details by skipping the earier posts.

I am happy you find peace in prayer. These days people make fun of me when I mention that I pray before going to bed. But I also pray during the day. Just yesterday I prayed, "Please bring my dad home safely." Or sometimes after a long and difficult walk I say, "Praise you Lord for bringing me home!"

Maybe about a month ago I was upset and unhappy about the course of my life. I felt in my mind a kind of bitterness that seemed so strong and harsh. It would probably break me if it remained. So while riding my bike to school I prayed to God for guidance and help. And oddly enough about an hour later I was hit by a minivan while - of all things - walking my bike across a crosswalk. Then I developed heart palpitations. Then I was hospitalized for about six days. Then a whole bunch of really strange things started to happen. I am having breathing problems. So I am using a steroid inhaler to help me just to breathe.

All of this sounds kind of rough. But this morning at the dentist, my hygenist said, my teeth are surprisingly clean although she hasn't seen me in three years. And I found myself joking with everybody and laughing like nobody else in the building mattered. And I got myself a public library card - something I haven't had in a great many years. A lady handing out cards to a weight loss and fitness centre said she was giving me a card to do her job although she didn't think I needed it. And a complete stranger snuck me a transit transfer so I didn't have to pay fare. I gave my dad an extra dollar to play bingo. It occured to me what a wonderful relationship I now have with both my parents. I'm actually pretty happy about life.

So the short of my story is, prayer does help. And the deep bitterness is gone. It is hard to understand why bad things happen to people sometimes. But if you chip away at all cakes of dirt and stone, in the middle of that garble and goop the diamond is still as fiery and pure as the day it was ushered out of the earth. So have faith. Believe in God's power.
 
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bethdinsmore

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braka said:
I'm sure this type of thread is fairly common, but I figure I'll post anyway. If anyone can relate and offer advice their experiences it would be much appreciated...QUOTE

I definitely can relate, traveled much the same route. Think I can post my website now - we'll see: www.paradiselil.com and click on personal testimony if you're interested. In case I don't get to post site, or you want abbreviated version, here it is:

Here's my testimony (from a previous post of mine):
"I came to my beliefs not by a leap of faith but by the intellect. Here's how I arrived at the belief that the Bible is the absolute truth [and that the true Higher Power is the God of the Bible].

:("I was raised in a liberal "Christian" church that taught there were mistakes in the Bible. I swallowed it whole, never asking them to show me the mistakes so I could check them out for myself. Instead, I became an atheist for about 12 years. Then I made the mistake of playing the Ouija Board, and became demon oppressed. I quickly realized the reality of the supernatural world. More than that, I would pray when the strange things would happen, and they would immediately stop for a time. That proved to me that there had to be a good supernatural being who had dominance over the evil.

:confused:As I was terrified, I started searching various religions to see where the truth was. The puzzle pieces finally fell into place when I read The Late Great Planet Earth, a book on Christian Evidences about Biblical prophecy. It showed that past prophecies had been fulfilled 100% of the time, and convinced me there had to be a God guiding the writing of the Bible.

"Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." So that verse boils down to the famous question, "Is Jesus the Lord, a liar, or a lunatic?" The accuracy of the Scriptures convinced me that Jesus is who He says He is - the Lord. "In the Bible it says that the true God draws all people to Himself, and that the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, righteousness, and judgment (in other words, of the need for a Savior).
There was a Gospel invitation in the book, and I accepted Christ as my sinbearer at that point.

I have been saved for 33 years now and it just gets better with time. The God of the Bible has never, ever let me down. He has changed me profoundly, and there have been many, many miracles, both small and large (but I am not using that as proof, as many religions have miracles, though they don't have the external proofs I have mentioned).

"I have come to realize that Christianity is a relationship, not a religion. It is unique - we do not obtain Heaven by our own good works, contrary to the beliefs of all religions. Salvation is based on Christ's goodness, not our own. . We receive eternal life when we make the decision to trust in Christ alone to pay for all our sins on the cross, (past present and future), and trust in Him to take us to Heaven one day, without any good works of our own. (Rom. 3:23, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, I Peter 3:18, and John 3:16). The Bible says also that we cannot lose our salvation (see "gift" in Romans 6:23 and Romans 11:29 and also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). The uniqueness of Christianity is that eternal life is a free gift, based on the decision of a person to trust in Christ as one’s sinbearer (without any good works of their own).

"If you want to do more research, I recommend for starters:
www.rbc.org/questions/ for "Answers to Tough Questions" and click on the appropriate topic, and
www.rbc.org/ds/salvation.html and click on "Why we believe: Evidences for Christian Faith", for example"

As for recovery groups, I got the most help from the Christian ones, such as Overcomers, which is nationwide. And also from the workbooks of Pat Springle. Powerful teachings.

Please pm me if you have more questions, friend.
Aloha in Jesus
 
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Followers4christ

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Romans 10:9"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that GOD raised him from the dead you will be saved.Acts 2:21"And everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved."Romans 6:23"For the wages of sin is death,but the gift of GOD is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."John 3:16"For GOD so loved the world that HE gave his one and only son,that Whoever believes in HIM shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world,but to save the world through him."1 John 1:9"If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."Romans 3:22"This righteousness from GOD comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD,and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."Psalm 51:1"Have mercy on me,O GOD,according to Your unfailing love according to your great compassion blot out my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin."Galatians 5:24"Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."Romans 10:17"Consequently,faith comes hearing the message,and the message is heard through the word of Christ."

John 5:24"I tell you the truth ,whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned he has crossed over from death to life."Romans 10:12"For there is no difference between jew and gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."Joshua 1:8"Do not let this Book of the law depart from your mouth,meditate on it day and night,so that you may be careful to do everything written in it.Then you will be prosperous and successful."2 Corinthians 5:17"Therefore,if anyone is in Christ,he is a new creation the old has gone the new has come."GOD BLESS :amen:
 
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