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Not sinning does not mean anything; not equivalent to holiness or godliness

BryanW92

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BryanW92: Sanctification is a process in this life that we must work through and that process lies in between the extremes.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Apparently, Jesus is an extremist.

No, he's not. He says "narrow is the way". A process is a way, not a destination. He does say "few there be", but what constitutes "few"?? There have been 100 billion people on Earth since the beginning of time. There are 2.5 billion Christians alive right now, so even if it's only 10%, that's still 250 million just from those Christians living today. So, don't get hung up on "few".
 
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QueSi

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bottomofsandal said:
Should Jesus have said, "Try not to sin anymore" ?

How about, "Keep working on your sin problem" ?

Did Jesus say or imply in any way that she was perfect and sinless ?

What would you or I expect God to say about sin ? God told the woman to not sin anymore. We are commanded to not sin. There is a standard. God demands perfection because He Himself is perfect. Man is not perfect or sinless, man will never be so on this earth. Thanks be to God that Christ was perfect and perfectly obeyed The Law of God for us sinners.

Right, He told the woman to not sin anymore... We are commanded to not sin...every time someone sins it is because it is their choice to do it, so every time the person could choose not to sin instead. It's straight and narrow, but not impossible.
 
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BryanW92

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BryanW92: No, he's not (extremist)

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Context is everything. Prooftexting is bad religion. He's talking about loving your enemies when he says that.

Also, in the next verse, 6:1, he cautions "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." You "perfect or nothing" people are guilty of that in every one of these threads.
 
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bottomofsandal

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Right, He told the woman to not sin anymore... We are commanded to not sin...every time someone sins it is because it is their choice to do it, so every time the person could choose not to sin instead. It's straight and narrow, but not impossible.
Another "do not" ? What about the "DOs" ?


Does anyone love God with ALL heart, mind, soul, and strength ?

Nope, therefore when we fail to do so we sin. ALL the time.

This is continuous sin, we are continuously failing to follow this command.



Every minute, every hour, every day, all the time...FAILURE !!!

This makes God's mercy seem even greater...
 
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QueSi

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bottomofsandal said:
Another "do not" ? What about the "DOs" ?

Does anyone love God with ALL heart, mind, soul, and strength ?

Nope, therefore when we fail to do so we sin. ALL the time.

This is continuous sin, we are continuously failing to follow this command.

Every minute, every hour, every day, all the time...FAILURE !!!

This makes God's mercy seem even greater...

How do you know that nobody loves God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength at all times? Have you met every person on earth?
 
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BryanW92

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Another "do not" ? What about the "DOs" ?


Does anyone love God with ALL heart, mind, soul, and strength ?

Nope, therefore when we fail to do so we sin. ALL the time.

This is continuous sin, we are continuously failing to follow this command.



Every minute, every hour, every day, all the time...FAILURE !!!

This makes God's mercy seem even greater...

All of the time?? I don't think our situation is that bleak. Look, God didn't send Jesus to earth so that we would fail. Give him some credit. He knows our nature and how we act, and he came up with a plan that takes our weakness into account. God is an awesome God who doesn't come up with half-baked schemes that are doomed to fail.
 
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Kemosabe

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Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Be ye therefore perfect, means; "be ye therefore perfect."

And agrees with Gal 5;

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Nowhere in the Bible is Salvation described as a "sin process."
 
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bottomofsandal

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How do you know that nobody loves God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength at all times? Have you met every person on earth?
No need to. The Bible tells us no one is righteous, not even one.

Are you really going to take the position that there is such a person ?


Tell you what. You find 'em, and I will say I am wrong !!!:cool:
 
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QueSi

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bottomofsandal said:
No need to. The Bible tells us no one is righteous, not even one.

Are you really going to take the position that there is such a person ?

Tell you what. You find 'em, and I will say I am wrong !!!:cool:

I'm going to take the position that it is possible.

Do you think a person can go for one minute without sinning?
 
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bottomofsandal

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All of the time?? I don't think our situation is that bleak. Look, God didn't send Jesus to earth so that we would fail. Give him some credit. He knows our nature and how we act, and he came up with a plan that takes our weakness into account. God is an awesome God who doesn't come up with half-baked schemes that are doomed to fail.
God's perfect standard is not part-time is it ?

God is not a slackard like we are, He is always perfect.

His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.



Our situation WAS bleak, thanks be to God for Christ our Savior.

Jesus did that which we could not: obey the law, and pay our sin debt.

Even if God knows we will fail, His holiness still demands real perfection.
 
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bottomofsandal

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I'm going to take the position that it is possible.
I am going to guess I am 20 years older than you.

Can you make it to my age without sinnning ?

We can all go different lengths of time without sinning, but 20 years ?




Do you think a person can go for one minute without sinning?

What is a sin ? Not being sarcastic or a smart-aleck.


If we do not have a mutually agreed upon definition, then we cannot continue our dialogue brother. Anything not done in faith is a sin. What if a man is more sensitive to his sinful state than other men ? Why did David ask to be cleansed from unknown faults ? Could a man have secret sins that he is not even aware of ? Are we talking about "do not" and "do" ?
 
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Striker427

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Instead of perfect maybe Holy will work for you.

1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
1Pe 1:15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
1Pe 1:16 because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Holy
HO'LY, a.

1. Properly, whole, entire or perfect, in a moral sense. Hence, pure in heart, temper or dispositions; free from sin and sinful affections. Applied to the Supreme Being, holy signifies perfectly pure, immaculate and complete in moral character; and man is more or less holy, as his heart is more or less sanctified, or purified from evil dispositions. We call a man holy,when his heart is conformed in some degree to the image of God, and his life is regulated by the divine precepts. Hence, holy is used as nearly synonymous with good, pious, godly.

Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Pet 1.

2. Hallowed; consecrated or set apart to a sacred use, or to the service or worship of God; a sense frequent in Scripture; as the holy sabbath; holy oil; holy vessels; a holy nation; the holy temple; a holy priesthood.

3. Proceeding from pious principles,or directed to pious purposes; as holy zeal.

4. Perfectly just and good; as the holy law of God.
 
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Kemosabe

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bottomofsandal: No need to. The Bible tells us no one is righteous, not even one.

If you do as commanded, crucify flesh and follow the Spirit, then you become a part of the Body of Christ here on earth.

If you yield your vessel to the Holy Spirit, then the righteousness of God is accomplished in your vessel, not your righteousness.

Act 24:16
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
 
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Striker427

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Here is the definition of sin

Sin
SIN, n.

1. The voluntary departure of a moral agent from a known rule of rectitude or duty, prescribed by God; any voluntary transgression of the divine law, or violation of a divine command; a wicked act; iniquity. Sin is either a positive act in which a known divine law is violated, or it is the voluntary neglect to obey a positive divine command, or a rule of duty clearly implied in such command. Sin comprehends not action only, but neglect of known duty, all evil thoughts purposes, words and desires, whatever is contrary to God's commands or law. 1 John 3. Mat 15. James 4. Sinner neither enjoy the pleasures of nor the peace of piety. Among divines, sin is original or actual. Actual sin, above defined, is the act of a moral agent in violating a known rule of duty. Original sin, as generally understood, is native depravity of heart to the divine will, that corruption of nature of deterioration of the moral character of man, which is supposed to be the effect of Adam's apostasy; and which manifests itself in moral agents by positive act of disobedience to the divine will, or by the voluntary neglect to comply with the express commands of God, which require that we should love God with all the heart and soul and strength and mind, and our neighbor as ourselves. This native depravity or alienation of affections from God and his law, is supposed to be what the apostle calls the carnal mind or mindedness, which is enmity against God, and is therefore denominated sin or sinfulness. Unpardonable sin, or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is supposed to be a malicious and obstinate rejection of Christ and the gospel plan of salvation, or a contemptuous resistance made to the influences and convictions of the Holy Spirit. Mat 12.

2. A sin-offering; an offering made to atone for sin. He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin. 2 Cor 5.

3. A man enormously wicked. [Not in use.]

4. Sin differs from crime, not in nature, but in application. That which is a crime against society, is sin against God.

SIN, v.i.

1. To depart voluntarily from the path of duty prescribed by God man; to violate the divine law in any particular, by actual transgression or by the neglect or non-observance of its injunctions; to violate any known rule of duty. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Rom 3. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned. Psa 51.

2. To offend against right, against men or society; to trespass. I an a man more sinn'd against than sinning. And who but wishes to invert the laws of order, sins against the' eternal cause.

SIN,for since, obsolete or vulgar.
 
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BryanW92

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God's perfect standard is not part-time is it ?

God is not a slackard like we are, He is always perfect.

His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.



Our situation WAS bleak, thanks be to God for Christ our Savior.

Jesus did that which we could not: obey the law, and pay our sin debt.

Even if God knows we will fail, His holiness still demands real perfection.

there is just no way to comment on that many contradictions.
 
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QueSi

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bottomofsandal said:
I am going to guess I am 20 years older than you.

Can you make it to my age without sinnning ?

We can all go different lengths of time without sinning, but 20 years ?

What is a sin ? Not being sarcastic or a smart-aleck.

If we do not have a mutually agreed upon definition, then we cannot continue our dialogue brother. Anything not done in faith is a sin. What if a man is more sensitive to his sinful state than other men ? Why did David ask to be cleansed from unknown faults ? Could a man have secret sins that he is not even aware of ? Are we talking about "do not" and "do" ?

If I am blessed enough to make it around the sun 50 times, I hope to have not sinned from this point, but as I'm not even sure that I can make it to see tomorrow, thinking ahead 20 years is a big stretch. So my answer is that I don't know nor have any way of knowing.

You say we can all go different lengths of time without sinning (I'll agree with whatever your idea of sinning is for this dialogue), so do you think that someone can go for one minute without sinning?
 
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hmw

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hmw: Christians have overcome simply by believing in Jesus.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works (believe in Jesus, John 6:29) unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

hmw says; "simply by believing in Jesus."

Jesus says; "he that overcometh, and keepeth my works (believe in Jesus, John 6:29) unto the end."

We have a choice:
works of the law for righteousness
or
works of believing in Jesus, John 6:29, thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5

They're pointing in different directions.

kemosabe, you reject 1John 5:4,5 which says we overcome when we believe in Jesus. Thus you oppose yourself.
 
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endtimewarrior

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endtimewarrior: "If someone claims that they do not sin then they are a liar.'

Jesus said; "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.'

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

No, I'm not calling Jesus a liar. I'm calling those who claim that they do not sin liars. Jesus never said that we will not sin.
 
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Striker427

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Actually he doesn't oppose himself. For he has faith in Jesus Christ to overcome his sinful nature. You just lack the understanding that he knows to be true.

1Jn 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
1Jn 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

So you are saying we don't need to keep his commandments, but the scripture shows differently. And Kemo has faith that we can overcome the world with our faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the light of the world. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Does this have no meaning for you? It has meaning to me that Christ will strengthen my weak resolve and propel me beyond my sinful nature. Until you experience it, you will not know what I am talking about.
 
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