S
SpiritualAntiseptic
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People should be paid what they are worth to a company, not what they think they are worth or even worse, deserve by virtue of being 'employed'.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Not my usual thread.....
- Thread starter Cosmic Charlie
- Start date
People should be paid what they are worth to a company, not what they think they are worth or even worse, deserve by virtue of being 'employed'.
S
SpiritualAntiseptic
Guest
Occupy represents everything wrong with this country. In the past when times got tough, people went out looking for work and got their hands dirty.
These kids feel the world owe's them something and all they do is sit around and pout and blame everyone else for their problems. I wish we would round these people up and deport them to a truly impoverished nation.
Many people in the world are happy just to have enough money to eat. These kids are upset because their trust fund has been hurt and they can no longer afford an iphone and an ipad. Heaven forbid that they have to work a menial job after college! Do they know the world is full of people who have an education and still spent all their life working for next to nothing. Maybe next time these kids are down in Cancun they can ask their taxi driver or bartender about his master's in nuclear physics or his time in medical school.
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SpiritualAntiseptic
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I agree this has to stop. However, we also have to take responsibility. From my understanding of history, scapegoating never quit works out well.
We live in a way that is not equivalent to other modern countries. When we learn to live within our means, such as more compact cities, more public transportation, recycle and reuse most of our trash and live healthy lifestyles, then we can focus on something else. The "99%" wastes so much but they do nothing about it.
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I'm glad you feel that way because it the cause of most of the economic problems:
In the last 30 years productivity has increase over 50% and wages have not been allowed to rise at all (adjusted for inflation) at the same time corporate profits are up over 175% during the same period.
This main issue in the economy:
People are NOT being paid what they are worth to the company.
They are being paid much less.
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- Jun 11, 2005
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It's so hard for me to believe how much many of you are suffering because of today's economy but you're all Republicans.
Compared to most of you, we've had it really easy. True, my husband lost three jobs over the years, but there was only one time where severance didn't bridge the gap, and because we were able to draw unemployment from the very beginning of the layoff and saved the unemployment up, we really didn't have a gap.
True, after the second and third layoffs he took jobs with lower salaries, but I still don't think he earned less than 100K in the past twenty years. He might have in 1999, I can't remember.
True, we had to relocate to places we would not have ordinarily chosen to live, but we had relo benefits, and eventually we adjusted.
But as we moved hither and yon I met a lot of people who had it much harder than we did, and I began to see how unjust our society was (when you live in the suburbs you can be kind of isolated.)
And I am embarrassed to say that I have a few different jobs, because when I went back to work almost FT I kept my self-employment job and my very very PT job. I found my self-employment interesting and enjoyable, and no one wanted my very PT job even though the hourly wage is quite high.
I would be happy to give my other two jobs away even though they wouldn't provide a living wage to anyone (one is only $105 a week for a few hours, and the SE is only about $200 a month.) Still, for the amount of time they take, the hourly wage is very good, and both of them would provide someone with some pretty professional credentials.
One reason why I haven't given them up is because I will probably retire when my hubby does (2 years) and at that point I would probably want to have something small to keep me busy, and the two together just take me about 6-7 hours a week.
But I really do want all of you younger people to live in a better world, and that's why I'm a liberal. We had the advantage of twenty-five years in the workforce before things really started to tank, and we were able to muddle through when they did.
Compared to most of you, we've had it really easy. True, my husband lost three jobs over the years, but there was only one time where severance didn't bridge the gap, and because we were able to draw unemployment from the very beginning of the layoff and saved the unemployment up, we really didn't have a gap.
True, after the second and third layoffs he took jobs with lower salaries, but I still don't think he earned less than 100K in the past twenty years. He might have in 1999, I can't remember.
True, we had to relocate to places we would not have ordinarily chosen to live, but we had relo benefits, and eventually we adjusted.
But as we moved hither and yon I met a lot of people who had it much harder than we did, and I began to see how unjust our society was (when you live in the suburbs you can be kind of isolated.)
And I am embarrassed to say that I have a few different jobs, because when I went back to work almost FT I kept my self-employment job and my very very PT job. I found my self-employment interesting and enjoyable, and no one wanted my very PT job even though the hourly wage is quite high.
I would be happy to give my other two jobs away even though they wouldn't provide a living wage to anyone (one is only $105 a week for a few hours, and the SE is only about $200 a month.) Still, for the amount of time they take, the hourly wage is very good, and both of them would provide someone with some pretty professional credentials.
One reason why I haven't given them up is because I will probably retire when my hubby does (2 years) and at that point I would probably want to have something small to keep me busy, and the two together just take me about 6-7 hours a week.
But I really do want all of you younger people to live in a better world, and that's why I'm a liberal. We had the advantage of twenty-five years in the workforce before things really started to tank, and we were able to muddle through when they did.
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Until you start backing some of this babbling up with some facts it remains babbling.
You haven't even given a coherent explanation as to what you think the underlying causes are and you want to propose solutions.
Quit talking point and start talking some facts
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My unemployment runs out in January. I don't know what I am going to do. Massachusetts has section 115 for veterans. I will check that out. I worked in IT, laid off twice from that. Went back to school and got by Bachelor's in Accounting/Finance. Can't get hired in the Accounting field. I am now in the midst of taking various IT Certifications to augment my pass IT experience. The market is tight and I know my age is not helping. After this, I am not sure. I had one interview for a large software company, the last person to interview me that day asked me, "How long do you think it would be, before you became bored with the job" ? I knew I wasn't getting the job then. It was an easy position, just licensing the software, it only paid $19.00 hr but I would have taken the job. They think I am either too old, too experienced, or not enough experience.
I am not buying the bull bleep that the unemployed don't want to work. I sure as bleep do.
I am not buying the bull bleep that the unemployed don't want to work. I sure as bleep do.
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S
SpiritualAntiseptic
Guest
That's a clever play on statistics. The thing is that companies have gotten larger. There are large companies now than 30 years ago. This of course means that there will be more corporate profits. Walmart is bigger than it was 30 years ago, so its profits are up.
People are getting paid what they are worth. If they didn't, they wouldn't be hiring anyone.
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SpiritualAntiseptic
Guest
I don't know anyone here who mentioned that they were a Republican.
I can believe that someone would think that economic suffering is related to the Republicans. Virtually every policy I have seen put forth by the democrats since they won congress in 2006 has been harmful to investment. Obama admitted and attacked investors for not spending more money and hiring more people. How on Earth is someone to invest comfortably when they don't know what new regulation they will face and what it will cost them? Some of the democrats have claimed that regulations have no affect on the economy!
When you run a business, large or small, you are counting every penny and wondering what the next bill is going to cost you.
Young people inherited such great things from the libs and democrats didn't they? They got massive debt, a failed social security, a welfare state, medicare, medicaid and an older generation that expects to be taken care of even though the treated the national debt like a kid with a credit card.
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S
SpiritualAntiseptic
Guest
I'm sorry, were you talking to me? What you said here applies to what you posted, not what I did.
But then again, I said in the first post that this is exactly the kind of game you would play. You make a claim, you demand I give facts and then if I don't do it, then you attack what I said, even though it is no more supported than what I said. And quite frankly, I said a lot more and provided a lot more logical coherence than your tired wealth envy ramblings which get libs elected and trash the economy.
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S
SpiritualAntiseptic
Guest
I wasn't arguing that everyone unemployed person doesn't want to work. There are many with too much experience to find work. However, there are many young people that refuse to take lower level jobs.
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You really don't know what you're talking about do you ?
I don't need to continue talking to you.
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Keep in mind that companies would pay you zero if they thought they could get away with it. I was reading today that children in Mali under age twelve actually get paid in dirt. They work ungodly hours in the goldmines and get a sack of dirt at the end of the day. They then sift the dirt and IF they find any gold traces, then they get to keep it. Go to msnbc.com you will find the heart breaking story there.
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S
SpiritualAntiseptic
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Third world nations deliberately create social systems for this to happen.
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Gwendolyn
back in black
I wrote a rant at you, SA, but then I decided it wasn't worth it. Some of us students paid for our own education and got bank loans. Some of us aren't entitled little snots who want the best of everything. I shop in thrift stores, my computer was donated to me through the university for disadvantaged students, and I have the cheapest phone plan available, though I cannot telephone anyone unless I use a pay phone (mainly text-only plan). I will have a hell of a lot of money to pay back, and the bank gets to set my monthly repayment fee - I don't. So if I don't get called on McDonald's or Tim Horton's jobs, I'm not going to cry - I'm overqualified anyway, and I have more money to pay than working minimum wage would allow. But don't for one minute think that I am ~too entitled~ to suck it up and work. I'm not - but it is also out of my hands whether I get callbacks or not. All I can do is polish and polish my resume and hope that someday, someone will finally call.
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Just curious. I would assume you are gainfully employed in a decent paying job, since you seem so harsh regarding those that are struggling in this corrupt economy.
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Third world? It is the first world companies that build the factories in the third world, so that they can exploit the poor. See companies are always looking how to contain labor costs. See in the third world, companies don't have to pay for health care, dental, vacation time, sick time or even much salary. They force the workers to work long long hours for little pay and no benefits. Nike, Sony and every other corporation in the US and Japan manufacture in China and other countries that allow this exploitation.
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