Not "getting" it

[Yitzchak]

There are two parts to Jesus answer to which is the greatest command. The first is to love God but the second is to love my neighbor as myself.
My time is running out on the library computer so I will have to answer a longer response later.
I did read you post and will think about it and post more later.

 

[Yitzchak]

Not at all - and I generally like your posts, too!

Tell me this... Why was man (Adam) created? What is the purpose of man?

As a child I was encouraged ot memorize parts of the Westminster Confessinon of Faith. I have forgotten a lot, but I will never forget:

Q. What is the chief end of man (humankind)?
A. The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

You see, I thought that included me. I thought the purpose of my life was to glorify God. Silly me.

You are trying to tell me that I was created to serve men, to meet the needs of men, becasue Adam had a need, therefore Eve was created. Forgive me if I don't see that as quite the same as being called to and being created to bring glory to God.

I don't think I am complicating the issue at all - I think I am cutting to the heart of the issue. Why was man created? Why was woman created? One's answer to those questions has everything to do with our view of marriage and family, but also our relationship with God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and our very salvation.

I don't take your comments personally, but I must take the issue very, very seriously.

I have some more time now to more fully respond.The main point I was trying to convey yesterday was that our purpose in life is twofold. Towards God and towards other people as well. The two do not contradict. as it says in 1 John , I think, if I can't love my fellow man whom I can see then I can't love God whom I don't see. If I love God, then I will love people.

The Westminister confession gets their answer from scripture and who can argue with that?? Certainly that would be a fools errand to attempt to refute scripture. But sometimes we need the whole counsel of God to fully answer a question and not just one verse.

I agree that we were created to glorify God. But what does that really mean? Romans chapter nine says that even Pharoah had a purpose in God's plan. I hope that I will be a vessel of honor and not one of dishonor in God's purposes.

Asking the right question is sometimes even more important than getting the right answer. For example, what is our purpose on this earth?? Is it to evangelize? Is it to be happy? Is it to live holy lives? Is it to love people and love God??

In Genesis God gives us a clue about one of our main purposes in life. In a word, Relationships. We are not created to be an island to ourselves. Whether we are speaking of family or friendships or church and fellowship or of evangelizing. We are all connected. We are all descended from Adam and Hebrews even says that Levi payed tithes before he was even born while in the loins of Abraham. We are a lot more connected than we often realize.

You have an issue about your purpose of servanthood. Being a servant is a part of our calling as Christians and just as human beings. Being a servant is not a bad thing. Anyway, I don't want to push the issue too far and thus go on a tangent. So let me just get to the bottomline of it all.

My number one calling in this life is to love my wife. My body belongs not just to myself but to her as well. Our destinies are joined together as one person. If I hurt her, I hurt myself. There is no shame in that calling or purpose.

But there is another truth which is crucial to this issue. God desires our happiness and our happiness is found in accomplishing His destiny and purpose for our lives. When I am not happy, that is a clue that I am not in the Lord's will. How do I find my way back to the Lord's will? By loving. The rest falls into place when I do that.

I bring glory to God by loving my wife and living the full and abundant life he has for us together as a couple.

 

[bliz]

You have an issue about your purpose of servanthood. Being a servant is a part of our calling as Christians and just as human beings. Being a servant is not a bad thing. Anyway, I don't want to push the issue too far and thus go on a tangent. So let me just get to the bottomline of it all.

My number one calling in this life is to love my wife. My body belongs not just to myself but to her as well. Our destinies are joined together as one person. If I hurt her, I hurt myself. There is no shame in that calling or purpose.

But there is another truth which is crucial to this issue. God desires our happiness and our happiness is found in accomplishing His destiny and purpose for our lives. When I am not happy, that is a clue that I am not in the Lord's will. How do I find my way back to the Lord's will? By loving. The rest falls into place when I do that.

I bring glory to God by loving my wife and living the full and abundant life he has for us together as a couple.

Sorry - you misunderstand. Your preliminary answer made me think that would be the case. I have no problem, personaly, being a servant to others. (I am often told that I have a servant heart.) I have no problem when we talk about all Christians serving others. I have a big problem when we say that woman was created to be a servant to man.

I'm sorry that you think your number one calling in life is to love your wife. I think you have it wrong. Your number one calling is to glorify and serve God, just like mine is. Yes, loving your wife falls beautifully in line with that, but God must come first. For all of us.

I think we view our relationships with God rather differently.

 

[Yitzchak]

Sorry - you misunderstand. Your preliminary answer made me think that would be the case. I have no problem, personaly, being a servant to others. (I am often told that I have a servant heart.) I have no problem when we talk about all Christians serving others. I have a big problem when we say that woman was created to be a servant to man.

I'm sorry that you think your number one calling in life is to love your wife. I think you have it wrong. Your number one calling is to glorify and serve God, just like mine is. Yes, loving your wife falls beautifully in line with that, but God must come first. For all of us.

I think we view our relationships with God rather differently.

I apologize for misunderstanding. I assume that you mean I misunderstood about your views on servanthood. I am glad to hear it.

Actually, as far as I am concerned, the part about being a servant is a side issue, but since you brought it up I thought that I would address it. Being created to be a servant and being created to be Adam's wife are not synonomous by the way. Adam and Eve had a destiny which was together and not apart as individuals. What I am contrasting is a individualistic mindset versus a community mindset. Eve's destiny was to be Adam's wife , not to be by herself. This was to meet Adam's need and Eve's as well. As the scripture says the two became one flesh.

I am sorry that you think that we have very different relationships with God. I have been in the christian community long enough to assume that is not meant as a compliment.

 

[heartnsoul]

Sorry - you misunderstand. Your preliminary answer made me think that would be the case. I have no problem, personaly, being a servant to others. (I am often told that I have a servant heart.) I have no problem when we talk about all Christians serving others. I have a big problem when we say that woman was created to be a servant to man.

I'm sorry that you think your number one calling in life is to love your wife. I think you have it wrong. Your number one calling is to glorify and serve God, just like mine is. Yes, loving your wife falls beautifully in line with that, but God must come first. For all of us.

I think we view our relationships with God rather differently.

Bliz, I think you may have misunderstood Yitzchak. I do understand what he is trying to say. It doesn't conflict at all with your thoughts. Just because his calling is to serve his wife, that doesn't mean he is not putting God first. On the contrary, by putting God first in his life, God is calling him to love his wife. There is no contradiction there. In order for any Christians to claim they have a "calling," that specifically refers to the fact that God is first in their lives and they are following God's will (or calling). Hope that helps clarify the misunderstanding. As God's children, we (of course) honor God first in our hearts...THAT'S A GIVEN. What Yitzchak is trying to get across is that God is a LOVING God who would want the BEST for us. The "best" meaning if you're married, both spouses are called to love each other with God being at the center of their marriage. Maybe you’re getting technical on the usage of the word “calling”. I think we can all agree that as Christians, our first calling is to love God. The second calling would be to love others. In the case of marriage, the second calling is to love our spouses. By loving our spouses, it will glorify God. I believe that is what Yitzchak was trying to communicate in his previous post.

 

[bliz]

I apologize for misunderstanding. I assume that you mean I misunderstood about your views on servanthood. I am glad to hear it.

Actually, as far as I am concerned, the part about being a servant is a side issue, but since you brought it up I thought that I would address it. Being created to be a servant and being created to be Adam's wife are not synonomous by the way. Adam and Eve had a destiny which was together and not apart as individuals. What I am contrasting is a individualistic mindset versus a community mindset. Eve's destiny was to be Adam's wife , not to be by herself. This was to meet Adam's need and Eve's as well. As the scripture says the two became one flesh.

I am sorry that you think that we have very different relationships with God. I have been in the christian community long enough to assume that is not meant as a compliment.

I don't want to be hurtful or difficult, but you wrote clearly that your number one calling is to love your wife. Perhaps I am misunderstnding since I have been focused on why we exist and so I read your remarks in that context.

I agree, the servant business is a side issue, but so many people lump it in, I thought you were doing the same.

I'm still not clear what you think is the reason woman was made. Yes, clearly, Eve was to be with Adam... But what about woman in general?

 

[Yitzchak]

I don't want to be hurtful or difficult, but you wrote clearly that your number one calling is to love your wife. Perhaps I am misunderstnding since I have been focused on why we exist and so I read your remarks in that context.

I agree, the servant business is a side issue, but so many people lump it in, I thought you were doing the same.

I'm still not clear what you think is the reason woman was made. Yes, clearly, Eve was to be with Adam... But what about woman in general?

I think that women in general have as their main purpose to glorify God. This is done primarially just by existing. Some of vessels of honor and others of dishonor. Meaning some are good examples and some bad. In judaism, it is taught the all of history is a long sermon preached by God expounding on the torah.(the bible) Everything that happens is showing us some truth if we have eyes to see it. Like shakephere said. All the world is a stage. We are all actors in a great play which the Lord is conducting. By our choices, we make ourselves available to play certain parts. So whether we do good or evil, we are all accomplishing some part of God's purpose. Our highest purpose is found in loving God with all that we are.

Mother Teresa did that through her ministry in Calcutta. Joyce Meyer is an awesome bible teacher and in my view she glorifies God through that. Some women do it as mothers , some as wives. The word Eve in hebrew means life because she was the mother of all people. The main thing is that we all find our destiny which God is calling us to fulfill in this life.

I have found that the best way to find God's calling for my life is to start following the two great commands which Jesus gave. Love God passionately with all that I am and Love people just as passionately. There is no greater happiness than this and no greater purpose.

If we are miserable though , I think that is a sure sign that we are missing God's perfect will for our life. Whether it is in marriage , parenting, politics, or in full time ministry or in some other noble pursuit , if we are not happy then there is something wrong.

One thing I find extremely interesting is to watch my children discover their place in life. My oldest daughter is studying to be a doctor so that she can deliver babies. Not at all what I would have predicted for her but an awesome thing. She sees it not just as a career but as her calling in life and something which she is excited and happy about doing. She also is a wife and mother and time will show what else.

But I guess I need to add one thing because the Lord did speak to my heart this morning and cautioned me about looking at performance and neglecting who we are. The biggest way we glorify God is just by existing and being who we are. Which is the image of God and as his sons and daughters.

To make it really plain , let me put it this way. When I don't love my wife , then I am not loving God. God has placed me in situations and relationships. I don't distinguish between loving people and loving God because to not love people is to not love God. If I am lukewarn in my love towards the people which God has placed in my life who are the image of God than I am lukewarm in my love towards God.

The pharisees made the command to honor their parents to no effect because they said they were putting God first by neglecting their parents. They were choosing God over their parents was their arguement. They would study torah and neglect their parents. I am not against seeking God and if a person finds them selves in a situation where they have to choose because their own family trys to prevent them from serving God , of course God is first.

I give honor to my wife by recognizing that we two have become one. We have one destiny in God now. Everything that I do effects her and everything that she does effects me. God has a calling for us together that neither one of us can accomplish apart. When I love her, I am sowing into that future which God has called us to together. I once heard Dr. Dobson , of focus on the family, say that the number one thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother. We have no idea the ripple effect of our relationships.

I will sum it up by pointing out a familiar verse. Jesus said that the world would know that we are his disciples by our love for eachother. Not by our love for truth or our love for God but by our love for eachother. Of course we love God first. Actually he loved us first and so we learned to love him back. It is out of my relationship with Jesus that I learn to love my wife. And it is out of loving my wife that I learn to love God more. we never love God better by not loving people.

So I guess it depends on your situation. A woman is called to love her husband, her children, her pastor, her family, whoever God places in her life. The larger their role in her life, the more central to her calling they are.

 

[Yitzchak]

Bliz, I think you may have misunderstood Yitzchak. I do understand what he is trying to say. It doesn't conflict at all with your thoughts. Just because his calling is to serve his wife, that doesn't mean he is not putting God first. On the contrary, by putting God first in his life, God is calling him to love his wife. There is no contradiction there. In order for any Christians to claim they have a "calling," that specifically refers to the fact that God is first in their lives and they are following God's will (or calling). Hope that helps clarify the misunderstanding. As God's children, we (of course) honor God first in our hearts...THAT'S A GIVEN. What Yitzchak is trying to get across is that God is a LOVING God who would want the BEST for us. The "best" meaning if you're married, both spouses are called to love each other with God being at the center of their marriage. Maybe you’re getting technical on the usage of the word “calling”. I think we can all agree that as Christians, our first calling is to love God. The second calling would be to love others. In the case of marriage, the second calling is to love our spouses. By loving our spouses, it will glorify God. I believe that is what Yitzchak was trying to communicate in his previous post.

Thank you Heartnsoul. You know a little bit more of my backround and what the Lord has brought me through. Ceratinly, my abba, father is not neglected at all in my thinking or my heart. Thanks for being a good friend and an awesome sister in Christ.

 

[Yitzchak]

By the way, Bliz , I am not oblivious to the point that was infered in your post. That a woman is not defined solely by her relationship with her husband . If my wife passed away, I would still have purpose. I am not infering that a woman has no purpose apart from men. I recognise the fact that there are men who are given to abusive controling of women and futher their aims by reducing a woman to their servant. A woman is created in the image of God. She bears that image and glorifys God simply by existing. The converse is of course true and many women fall into a similar trap of reducing men to less than the honor they deserve.

 

[heartnsoul]

I have found that the best way to find God's calling for my life is to start following the two great commands which Jesus gave. Love God passionately with all that I am and Love people just as passionately. There is no greater happiness than this and no greater purpose.

If we are miserable though , I think that is a sure sign that we are missing God's perfect will for our life. Whether it is in marriage , parenting, politics, or in full time ministry or in some other noble pursuit , if we are not happy then there is something wrong.

I will sum it up by pointing out a familiar verse. Jesus said that the world would know that we are his disciples by our love for eachother. Not by our love for truth or our love for God but by our love for eachother. Of course we love God first. Actually he loved us first and so we learned to love him back. It is out of my relationship with Jesus that I learn to love my wife. And it is out of loving my wife that I learn to love God more. we never love God better by not loving people.

AMEN!! Love is the greatest! What a great passionate God we have!!