Not "getting" it

[nuarc]

If you are involved with a person, and there comes a point where you realize that THEY JUST DONT GET IT. And cannot take care of you emotionally, do you just forget about it, and do your best to take care of yourself, or keep on trying to show them how things could improve until something happens.
Selfishness is one of the downfalls of any marriage. What do you guys think is the difference between being selfish, and preserving your self worth? Im curious as to when enough is enough.

 

[Yitzchak]

We are speaking general principles here since every situation is different and needs to be handled individually.
There is such a thing as healthy boundaries. Meaning setting limits. Even in marriage there is such a thing as boundaries. There is a good christian book out called boundaries in marriage.
One thing I heard Joyce meyer say once was that if my helping someone is not really helping them. meaning that I keep giving what I don't really want to. sacrificing for their good and they are no better off after my help. The she said it is a dysfunctional cycle. Co-dependency. One person cannot do both sides of a relationship.
If your partner does not want real emotional intimacy for example. You can only do so much. So, yes , there is a limit to how much you devastate yourself emotionally for someone who is not benefiting from it anyway.
I guess, in my opinion, it becomes about timing. Until someone is really ready to receive love, you have to limit your investment or you will end up a martyr for the cause. They may remember you as being awesome, but you won't be around to enjoy it.
So it is not selfish to preserve yourself emotionally even in marriage.

 

[GirlieGirl]

Interesting question. It made me think of the "covenant marriage" idea that says you are to love your spouse and selflessly give indefinitely regardless of whether that love is returned to you. (I hope I'm not botching the interpretation of the covenant marriage idea). The principle as I recall is that you love actively because God commands it, and when it's hard that is God's way of working in you. Another idea that stood out to me was that marriage was made to show us how to be righteous not necessarily how to be happy.

 

[mghalpern]

Interesting question. It made me think of the "covenant marriage" idea that says you are to love your spouse and selflessly give indefinitely regardless of whether that love is returned to you. (I hope I'm not botching the interpretation of the covenant marriage idea). The principle as I recall is that you love actively because God commands it, and when it's hard that is God's way of working in you. Another idea that stood out to me was that marriage was made to show us how to be righteous not necessarily how to be happy.

Very nicely articulated...Michael

 

[bringingup4forHim]

girliegirl~ i just wanted to add that you have to be careful and not become the martyr of the relationship. if you happen to be with someone who has a problem, they may let you keep turning the other cheak as they slap the other side (so to speak). i say this because this is close to home for me. actually, right in my living room! i sought christian counsel for years and was told, 70 times 7, turn the other cheak, God will use this for His glory, pray harder, etc. 10 years later, nothing has changed but the damage. i have refused to lay down and he accuses me of turning from God. i don't think God meant for us to become slaves to our spouses. if that was so, then eve would not have been a help mate, rather a, well, slave!

 

[nuarc]

Another idea that stood out to me was that marriage was made to show us how to be righteous not necessarily how to be happy.

I seriously need to stay out of the marriage forum.

 

[bringingup4forHim]

rotflmbo!!! too funny, nuarc!

 

[Yitzchak]

Marriage is to make us happy actually. If a person looks at genesis where Adam was alone, what reason is given for making him a wife??? Not to prove Adam could endure a great trial with an abusive spouse. Not to show how righteous Adam was. But rather to meet Adam's needs.

 

[Yitzchak]

There is a psaage where Jesus says that the sabbtah was made for man and not man for the sabbath. I think that the same thing could be said about marriage. Marriage was made for man and not man for marriage.
People are always more important than rules.

 

[heartnsoul]

Marriage is to make us happy actually. If a person looks at genesis where Adam was alone, what reason is given for making him a wife??? Not to prove Adam could endure a great trial with an abusive spouse. Not to show how righteous Adam was. But rather to meet Adam's needs.

Excellent post Yitzchak! I would like also like to add that a marriage takes two. Well...actually three if you include God too. So, if you're hitting your head against a wall, then stop doing it. I've been married for 10 years now and I have come to the conclusion that men & women are just wired differently. It's not that men don't care...they just don't think like us women do. They are not wired to be as sensitive as we are. I use to expect my husband to read my mind. Now, I don't expect him to read my mind. As far as emotional needs go, what has worked for me is just plain communication. If I need him to talk to, I simply ask him directly, "Do you have some free time to talk to me right now?" Or if we're just driving around in a car and I want to hold hands with him, I just reach over and grab his hand...or I'll say something stupid like "Hon, are you just not in the mood to hold hands with me or are you purposely being cold?" That usually works real well. 9 times out of 10 he will grab my hand immediately and say, "No, I'm not trying to be cold, I just had a lot on my mind." After being married 10 years, I realize that subtle clues or hints don't work with men. They just don't get it. But we if be blunt and direct, it works real well. Anyway, every man is different. Your guy sounds like most guys. Although there are sensitive ones out there but the majority seem to be the typical "tough", unaffectionate guy. Anyway, hope I helped you. I know marriage is not easy...all relationships have their challenges. If being direct doesn't work, then I would still stand my ground and keep communicating your needs to him. Also praying hard helps too. God can do things that no man can do. God has a sense of humor too. God doesn't have to hit his head against a wall. If anyone can change your husband's heart, God can.

 

[nuarc]

Thank you everyone. Luckily, (Thank God) It is NOT my guy I am talking about. I was thinking about a close friend when the question came to me. I now see if she feels she is bearing some kind of cross to make her more righteous, he could probably run her over with a MAC truck and she'd say marriage isnt neccessarily to make her happy- she's becoming more righteous.
It's amazing to me how many women (and some men) believe that. They get treated badly, but come up with excuses for their spouse,often times blaming themselves or God. I see it in the forums all the time.
It depresses me to see how much "settling" seems to go on in marriages. Im on the verge of my own marriage and it scares me a bit, because Im not one for settling. I dont plan to be punished because of that fact.

 

[heartnsoul]

Thank you everyone. Luckily, (Thank God) It is NOT my guy I am talking about. I was thinking about a close friend when the question came to me. I now see if she feels she is bearing some kind of cross to make her more righteous, he could probably run her over with a MAC truck and she'd say marriage isnt neccessarily to make her happy- she's becoming more righteous.
It's amazing to me how many women (and some men) believe that. They get treated badly, but come up with excuses for their spouse,often times blaming themselves or God. I see it in the forums all the time.
It depresses me to see how much "settling" seems to go on in marriages. Im on the verge of my own marriage and it scares me a bit, because Im not one for settling. I dont plan to be punished because of that fact.

Sounds like you have your head on straight. You're right about "settling" that goes on in marriages. That's why it's even more important that we have God as the "center" in our lives because God will uplift us when we go through bad times. If we truly understand how much God loves us and wants the BEST for us, there would be a lot less settling in marriages. I'm assuming when you're talking about "settling", you are referring to tolerating abuse. No one should tolerate abuse. We wouldn't want that for our children, so why would God want that for us? God only wants the best for His children. Your friend needs to pray hard for herself, her husband and their marriage. Only the power of God will be able to change her husband's heart. In the meantime, she should not tolerate the abuse. She needs to speak the truth in love with her husband and focus on her own walk with God. Time will tell whether God will be the glue that holds their marriage together. I wish you a blessed marriage. I hope you have found a strong Christian man for yourself.

 

[Busybee]

I realize that subtle clues or hints don't work with men. They just don't get it. But we if be blunt and direct, it works real well.

Heart definitely hit that one on the head. I'm still in the process of learning that you have to be very upfront with men when it comes to anything in marriage. It takes soo much guess work off the both of you.

 

[Yitzchak]

I will add my agreement to that statement. The subtle clues seldom work. I learned something in counseling that i had a very hard time excepting but found to be true. It is my responsibility to make sure my needs are met and my responsibility to make sure I'm heard when I communicate. It set me free form a lot of frustration when I began to accept that if I was not heard to try again and own the responsiiblity of getting my message accross and the responsibility of letting my needs be known.

 

[GirlieGirl]

girliegirl~ i just wanted to add that you have to be careful and not become the martyr of the relationship. if you happen to be with someone who has a problem, they may let you keep turning the other cheak as they slap the other side (so to speak). i say this because this is close to home for me. actually, right in my living room! i sought christian counsel for years and was told, 70 times 7, turn the other cheak, God will use this for His glory, pray harder, etc. 10 years later, nothing has changed but the damage. i have refused to lay down and he accuses me of turning from God. i don't think God meant for us to become slaves to our spouses. if that was so, then eve would not have been a help mate, rather a, well, slave!

That's a good point. But I think it's applies to only a small percentage of people. With the divorce rates as they are, I'd say we don't have a martyrdom crisis. What we do see a lot of is people calling it quits because they're sick of their spouse and aren't choosing to stick it out through the tough times...and the really tough times as God instructs. (Infidelity and all that aside..yadda yadda).

Sure don't be a martyr and take abuse. But God did say to respect your husband and love your wife - there's no clause that says "if they're meeting your needs".

As far as the happiness issue, well when we treat our spouse as God commands, there will be happiness. Keep in mind, his original plan for marriage started in the garden of Eden before sin. We didn't need to worry about righteousness then as communion with God hadn't been broken. Welcome to sinful life now. I think if we asked God, "Are are you working in us to make us righteous or happy?", He'd pick the former. And I guess if you have the former, the latter follows behind.

Anyhow. Stick it out in marriage and treat your spouse your called to. He'll teach you righteousness through it, and God-willling, bless you for your obedience.

 

[GirlieGirl]

I was thinking about a close friend when the question came to me. I now see if she feels she is bearing some kind of cross to make her more righteous, he could probably run her over with a MAC truck and she'd say marriage isnt neccessarily to make her happy- she's becoming more righteous.
It's amazing to me how many women (and some men) believe that.

I think you know that you're attempting to twist my point into something that it's not. If this is meant to be a serious discussion where we don't set up strawman arguments, I'll be happy to elaborate for you more. Right now it doesn't look that way.

 

[nuarc]

Hey- you said it. I didnt twist anything you said.

Another idea that stood out to me was that marriage was made to show us how to be righteous not necessarily how to be happy.

I was thinking about a close friend when the question came to me. I now see if she feels she is bearing some kind of cross to make her more righteous, he could probably run her over with a MAC truck and she'd say marriage isnt neccessarily to make her happy- she's becoming more righteous.
It's amazing to me how many women (and some men) believe that. They get treated badly, but come up with excuses for their spouse,often times blaming themselves or God. I see it in the forums all the time.

Nothing twisted there, and I don't believe people can think that way- the thing is that some people really do think that way, and many fall under "Christian".
When I come to the marriage forum I read some things and just shake my head. I always feel like im not "christian" enough to relate to the things I read here. That's why most of the time I stay out. My fault this time, for coming in.

In anycase, I dont think there is anything you can elborate for me. Thanks.

Bye

 

[bliz]

Marriage is to make us happy actually. If a person looks at genesis where Adam was alone, what reason is given for making him a wife??? Not to prove Adam could endure a great trial with an abusive spouse. Not to show how righteous Adam was. But rather to meet Adam's needs.

I must disagree. Eve was not created for Adam, but for God. Man was created becasue it pleased God to have a being created that would bear His image. God did not make man to make man happy, but to make God happy. When God looked at Adam and said "It is not good for man to be alone." we must ask "Not good for whom?" Humans have egocentrially answered, "Not good for man." But humans are not the center of creation, or the reason for creation, God is! It was not good for God that man should be alone, and so God made Eve to complete His creation, not to complete man.

 

[Yitzchak]

I must disagree. Eve was not created for Adam, but for God. Man was created becasue it pleased God to have a being created that would bear His image. God did not make man to make man happy, but to make God happy. When God looked at Adam and said "It is not good for man to be alone." we must ask "Not good for whom?" Humans have egocentrially answered, "Not good for man." But humans are not the center of creation, or the reason for creation, God is! It was not good for God that man should be alone, and so God made Eve to complete His creation, not to complete man.

I hope you won't take our disagreement personally because I generally like your posts. On this one however, I think you are complicating a simple issue. God desires our happiness. We can bring in all kinds of aspects which relate but the main point still remains. God provided for Adam's need by creating Eve. Adam had this need even while he had perfect fellowship with God.

 

[bliz]

I hope you won't take our disagreement personally because I generally like your posts. On this one however, I think you are complicating a simple issue. God desires our happiness. We can bring in all kinds of aspects which relate but the main point still remains. God provided for Adam's need by creating Eve. Adam had this need even while he had perfect fellowship with God.

Not at all - and I generally like your posts, too!

Tell me this... Why was man (Adam) created? What is the purpose of man?

As a child I was encouraged ot memorize parts of the Westminster Confessinon of Faith. I have forgotten a lot, but I will never forget:

Q. What is the chief end of man (humankind)?
A. The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

You see, I thought that included me. I thought the purpose of my life was to glorify God. Silly me.

You are trying to tell me that I was created to serve men, to meet the needs of men, becasue Adam had a need, therefore Eve was created. Forgive me if I don't see that as quite the same as being called to and being created to bring glory to God.

I don't think I am complicating the issue at all - I think I am cutting to the heart of the issue. Why was man created? Why was woman created? One's answer to those questions has everything to do with our view of marriage and family, but also our relationship with God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and our very salvation.

I don't take your comments personally, but I must take the issue very, very seriously.