Not consummated

[ej]

If you would not have sex with your husband when you are "not one hundred percent responsive and comfortable with it" you are being selfish and controlling by putting your needs above your husbands and ignoring your Biblical duties.

I see what you're saying, but I think you have your thoughts a little mixed up.

Ultimately, what kind of a guy would want to have sex with an unwilling partner? Certainly not a man in a loving, respectful relationship! There are alternative methods of sexual release, I doubt you need me to elaborate

 

[HeatherJay]

If you would not have sex with your husband when you are "not one hundred percent responsive and comfortable with it" you are being selfish and controlling by putting your needs above your husbands and ignoring your Biblical duties.

Ephesians 5:
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.


If he were to demand that she fulfill her sexual duties then he would be in violation of his Biblical duties to care for her. Would you put your own selfish needs above your wife's emotional well being if you were in his postition? I certainly hope that my husband would not.

Love, Heather

 

[desi]

If he were to demand that she fulfill her sexual duties then he would be in violation of his Biblical duties to care for her. Would you put your own selfish needs above your wife's emotional well being if you were in his postition? I certainly hope that my husband would not.

Love, Heather

You left out the part where it says for couples not to withold affections from one another. The stuff you quoted does not address sex; hence, you are reaching. His wife is wrong to not have sex with him. I don't care what she feels or does not feel, when she married him their bodies became one shared body and he became her head of household. She has spurned God's role for her and her husband's affections. To say he would love her less by having sex with her when she did not feel like it is like saying God did not like Jesus by making him go through with the crucifixion when he prayed not to have to. It is false. It must be done for the greater good.

 

[desi]

I see what you're saying, but I think you have your thoughts a little mixed up.

Ultimately, what kind of a guy would want to have sex with an unwilling partner? Certainly not a man in a loving, respectful relationship! There are alternative methods of sexual release, I doubt you need me to elaborate

He said he does not want to anymore, neither would I after 3 years of waiting.

 

[ceres]

Engaging in sex with your wife when you know she is not a willing partner is absolutely disgusting. It does not show love.

 

[HeatherJay]

You left out the part where it says for couples not to withold affections from one another. The stuff you quoted does not address sex; hence, you are reaching. His wife is wrong to not have sex with him. I don't care what she feels or does not feel, when she married him their bodies became one shared body and he became her head of household. She has spurned God's role for her and her husband's affections. To say he would love her less by having sex with her when she did not feel like it is like saying God did not like Jesus by making him go through with the crucifixion when he prayed not to have to. It is false. It must be done for the greater good.

The greater good of whom? Not the greater good of the marriage. And I didn't leave anything out. But there's a bigger issue here than sex. Some women CAN'T have sex...maybe she's one of them. No greater good can possibly come from forcing, coersing, or commanding his wife to have sex with him...that would be tantamount to rape. And you've pointed out that Scripture says that the wife should treat her husband as master, but can you show me where it says that he has the right to abuse her? Because coersing her into sex in her mental state cetainly would be abuse.

David needs to make his decision on whether or not this is something he wants to continue to work on with his wife. Also, as he mentioned in one of the earlier posts, obviously, no possible good will come from him cheating on her. If his decision has come down to divorcing her or cheating on her...well, if it's come to that then it IS time for him to get out of the marriage. There's no point in causing himself and his wife even more pain.

Love, Heather

 

[mehrunissa]

anyone who would have sex with another person even if the other person didnt want to is absolutely sick.......... i dont see how that can be "God's will"
blah

 

[charligirl]

Actually Jesus is not mentioned in Genesis where God says women should obey her husband as her master.

As you well know I was quoting from Ephesians, The NEW Testement, the NEW covenant brought to us by Jesus.

I am completely and utterly at a loss as to what to say to a man who suggests a method including hypnosis and manipulation as a valid christian solution to dealing with this situation, who is happy to insist his wife has sex with him when she is not feeling well and who only seems to be able to read the bible a verse at a time and not study it in context.

I shall retire gracefully from this thread as I don't trust myself not to express the unchristian thoughts that it is provoking... it doesn't start my day well

 

[ej]

He said he does not want to anymore, neither would I after 3 years of waiting.

Gotcha... Sorry, I thought we were speaking 'in general' now, rather than still on the OP.

I agree with you on this one - 3 years is a long time to be patient and respectful against your instinct, when the marriage has never been consummated, this guy needs to consider himself.

Unfortunately though, it isn't that simple - his wife is a human being too.
So is there an answer which can help them both out? I hope so...

 

[desi]

As you well know I was quoting from Ephesians, The NEW Testement, the NEW covenant brought to us by Jesus.

I am completely and utterly at a loss as to what to say to a man who suggests a method including hypnosis and manipulation as a valid christian solution to dealing with this situation, who is happy to insist his wife has sex with him when she is not feeling well and who only seems to be able to read the bible a verse at a time and not study it in context.

I shall retire gracefully from this thread as I don't trust myself not to express the unchristian thoughts that it is provoking... it doesn't start my day well

What do you mean, you havn't expressed Christian thoughts since you've been here. Its all been cultural relativity nonsense in lock step with you syncophants. Can anyone show me where it is a crime in the Bible for a man to have sex with his wife? Anyone? You people rationalizing for this fellow's wife is rationalizing them both toward divorce as well as helping her to stay in whatever detrimental emotional state she hides within.

 

[HeatherJay]

And you think speed seduction is going to help her recover from whatever emotional trauma she's already been through? No, the Bible doesn't say it's a crime to have sex with your wife. But, Scripture has been quoted showing the Biblical way for a husband to care for his wife. No one is arguing that the Bible says that a wife SHOULD have sex with her husband. But nowhere in the Bible does it give the husband the right to abuse his wife (emotionally), or force (coerse, whatever) her to have sex with him.

This woman that none of us know (as we've only heard a tiny bit of David's story) is obviously troubled, and David obviously loves her very much to have stayed with her for 3 years without sex. She's a child of God and she needs help...she doesn't need to be treated as a sex object. Can you not see it's the same thing as if she were physically paralyzed? She's emotionally paralyzed.

What's the Christian course of action? Frankly, I have no idea what the solution to David's problem is...but I know it's not taking sex from his unwilling wife, and it's not cheating on her. Obviously, this is a HUGE problem, as 2 or 3 counselors haven't been able to fix it. The only solution I could possibly suggest to David is to give it to God and ask Him to provide a solution.

Desi, I haven't meant to make less of any of the advice that you've offered...I'm sorry if I have. I do get frustrated, though, when it seems as though the real issues are lost in the debate.

Love, Heather

 

[enslow]

demanding your wife have sex with you when she can't... that's not honouring your wife as God commands us.





Anyway
.
.
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davidjones, I'll pray for you and your wife tonight. It sounds like you've been honouring your wife so far. Don't lose hope.

Enslow

 

[nagwalk]

Talk about getting whacked between the eyes on the first visit to this forum!!
My first reactions..seems like our poor brother has gotten left behind with his real issues while his 'comforters' are lacking in real comfort that he can use now. It seems like it is more important to win an argument then offer solid advice.
First off, a biblical marriage must be consumated or become one flesh before it is a true marriage.
There is also the issue of honesty at the alter "If any of you know of any...declare it now."
It is obvious that our friend and his partner have done all that is possible in their minds over the last three years to come to terms with this issue.
My suggetion is for a frank and honest disscussion between the partners and a final attempt to deal with this once and for all in the next sixty days.
If in the event there is no resolution, then the parties can go on with their lives because there never was a consumation.
The husband never left and the wife never came to this relationship to consumate the marriage.
Maybe the sixty day deadline will create a mutual urgency to deal with this once and for all.
Cheers

 

[HeatherJay]

Hi nagwalk . Welcome to CF. You're right, sometimes we do get too caught up in the debate (not argument ) and forget to focus on the needs of our brothers and sister in Christ. I know it's something that I need to work on, but at least most people here do try to keep it relatively civil, even if we don't always see eye to eye on the issues.

Love, Heather

 

[nagwalk]

Hi Heather, I truly pray that our friends find a resolution and peace.
Thank you for the nice welcome.
nagwalk

 

[psycmajor]

If you would not have sex with your husband when you are "not one hundred percent responsive and comfortable with it" you are being selfish and controlling by putting your needs above your husbands and ignoring your Biblical duties.

But who's really being selfish?

 

[ceres]

But who's really being selfish?

I am glad someone else sees that too....

 

[desi]

I am glad someone else sees that too....

I guess the guy is selfish if he wants to be close to his wife when she does not feel like it. Shame on our friend to not want to be married to a woman who would put him off for 3 years. The nerve of the guy. He should be quiet and enjoy their platonic marriage while respecting his wife's feelings. Who cares how he feels...




It took effort to think in such an asinine way. She is definitely the selfish one.

 

[enslow]

Desi, I think it's quite likely that this woman is suffering more than the guy. I feel sorry for him as well, but I sense the real solution is to resolve her issues first. I'm not sure what they are, but I'm sure she feels very bad for him and wishes it could be fixed.
Enslow

 

[Super Gnat]

DISCLAIMER: I am not married, and am only popping in to share an analogy I thought of in the shower.

Addressed to desi, and also to davidjones:

My mother recently tore a muscle in her upper arm. Much of her range of motion in that arm is accompanied by extreme pain. Now, having that injury, there are a few things she could do about it.

She could just use the range of motion that she has. There would be a lot of things she wouldn't be able to do with that arm, and there's no guarantee that she would heal correctly, but it would take care of the pain. She could cut it off, I suppose, but that wouldn't help anything and leave her worse off. She could move that as she would if it was uninjured and grit her teeth against the pain. That would work for a while, but it would be extremely painful and make the torn muscle tear more, and she would probably end up worse off than she was before. She could also numb that arm to move it without pain, but after the anaesthetic wore off she would be in more pain than ever, and it might aggravate the tearing also. The last option is that she could do physical therapy to rehabilitate her arm. Some pain would be involved, but in the end her torn muscle would heal correctly and she would be able to move the arm with no pain at all.

Can you guess which option she chose?

Ephesians 5:28-29: So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.

My mother picked the last option, which shows that she loves and wants the best for her arm. In the same way, God commands a husband to love his wife as he loves his own body.