Not consummated

[davidjones2100]

I'm a Christian, I'm 34, this is my second marriage - I ended my first after my wife was unfaithful. I courted my current wife for several years before we were married. We've now been married for over three years, and our marriage has yet to be consummated.

My wife had a difficult childhood, and has been in counselling for many years - we anticipated a sexual relationship was going to be a problem, but with pre-marriage counselling and other work we believed it would work out. We never anticipated the difficulties we now face. If I had known things would be like this, I would never have married.

We are both doing counselling, and exploring things - but knowing what I do, I really cant see how things can get better - and if they do, it would only be by degrees. I dont think I can be in a marriage like this. While I care for my wife very, very much - I have stopped looking at her with desire, and I dont want to be intimate with her anymore. The thought of having children with her now scares me to death! I think of her now like i would think of a sister. I want to be married, I desperately would like a family - but I dont know if i can remain in this marriage. While I am resisting at the moment, if I remain I can see myself in an illicit relationship. I am already sorely tempted - and even the thought of being single for a period of time again seems like such an appealing idea.

I'm posting this, i guess, because i'm interested in what people think.

 

[E-beth]

WOW! You must be a totally patient guy to be married for three years in an unconsummated marriage.

You and your wife have to get some help. She has to learn to deal with her past and realize that you are not to blame for it.

This is her first marriage, correct? I think it might have been a mistake for her to get married having the issues that she does. But how are the other parts of your marriage? Does the lack of intimacy spill over in the other areas as well?

 

[desi]

You've got to be kidding me. You've been married to her for three years and havn't gotten any?! If she is a Christian she needs to recognize her obligations as a wife entail having sex with you. This should have been clear before the marriage happened. Your inability to make this happen in three years of marriage hints at something wrong with her AND you. For her to get through this you have to behave in such a way she will have sex with you. I don't know enough about your relationship to know what you should do. First off I would fire the counselor you have been wasting time with and ask around for the most competent sex therapist in your area. Better yet, look up speed seduction on google, go to the site and order the course. It'll set you back a few hundred but you will learn ways to persuade which should open your wife up to new experiences with you.

 

[ceres]

Does your wife have trust issues? Women need that level of trust and intimacy before they even want to have sex. She probably has a lot of things hid in an emotional "box" that you have to try to reach into. Did you have any bad "almost had sex" experiences? That can set things back also. Sometimes half of it is a mind game. I agree, fire the current counselor if he/she is making no progress.

 

[davidjones2100]

well to answer a couple of questions, the lack of intimacy is unquestionably impacting other parts of the relationship. As time goes by the lack of physical intimacy really impacts the ability (of a man) to pursue deeper emotional intimacy.

As for being patient - well yes i am, and i think spelling out marital obligations is no way to seduce! I am gentle, i know how to listen, understand and communicate - we have had very deep, emotional encounters - but my wife cannot seem to move past her fears and progress into a physical relationship.

As for the counselors - we're on our third - we've supposedly had the best (I'm certainly paying for it on that basis!).

I'm feeling quite exhausted - and while i'm generally an optimistic person, i feel there is not much more i can do. Perhaps as a consquence, my desire to want to fix things has really waned. I'm feeling that i've survived one divorce, I can survive another.

 

[cas_mason]

David, sometimes for a woman just the thought of the physical side to a relationship for a woman can be very presurising, and instead of wanting to, it can just push an even bigger gap between you. Your wife must know that she isn't making you happy and that in turn will make her even more unhappy and doubting her ability to make love. If you want this relationship to work, you have to talk to her and reassure her that you won't stray. Why don't have you and your wife have a break away in a nice romantic place and talk about how you feel - I wouldn't tell her everything! but you must have loved her to marry her. Tell her you want to refind the love!

 

[psycmajor]

desi, you missed the whole point, hon

This woman has been HURT. It's not just going to go away because he wants it to.
=========
davidjones2100,

Bring her on to CF. Maybe I can help. No guarantees, but I can try. And it's free! I have no license but I have some training...

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Well man, if anyoen could be the person to lead her away from what hurt she has experienced it would be you. Now, she needs to at least try to open up physically. What has happened to her to make her like this?
Here's a hug for both of you. *hug*

 

[desi]

well to answer a couple of questions, the lack of intimacy is unquestionably impacting other parts of the relationship. As time goes by the lack of physical intimacy really impacts the ability (of a man) to pursue deeper emotional intimacy.

As for being patient - well yes i am, and i think spelling out marital obligations is no way to seduce! I am gentle, i know how to listen, understand and communicate - we have had very deep, emotional encounters - but my wife cannot seem to move past her fears and progress into a physical relationship.

As for the counselors - we're on our third - we've supposedly had the best (I'm certainly paying for it on that basis!).

I'm feeling quite exhausted - and while i'm generally an optimistic person, i feel there is not much more i can do. Perhaps as a consquence, my desire to want to fix things has really waned. I'm feeling that i've survived one divorce, I can survive another.

Since the generic stuff you have tried so far has failed I highly recommend you get the speed seduction course. It teaches a mix of hypnosis, neurolinguistic programming, and body language communication which is designed to change a woman's emotions. It was designed so single men could get laid quick after a short casual conversation but I think it can help you. I'd send you my old books but my wife threw them out a few years back. What I think you have to do is:

1 Get her to diminish her prior bad experences so they are not as prominent.

2 Get her to emotionally go back to before the bad experiences.

3 Have her explain in depth her ideal man from that perspective and 'anchor' that feeling to you.

Speed seduction can help you. Go look it up at google .com and order it. It really works.

 

[psycmajor]

no..........

 

[HeatherJay]

Desi, where is your wife to smack you in the head??? A traumatic childhood experience of the nature that David is talking about is NOT going to be solved by some sex manual.

David, I don't know what to tell you to help your wife open up, but PLEASE don't cheat on her. Remember the pain and betrayal that you felt when your first wife did it to you. And you obviously LOVE your wife...even if it's in the sisterly way you talked about. If you, the person she probably trusts more than anyone else in the world, were to betray her trust in that way...well, think about how that would destroy her emotionally??

You shouldn't have to suffer because of her issues, though. What are her feelings toward you? Maybe she thinks of you more as a brother or best friend than a husband. Talk to her and explain that you don't want to hurt her more, but you can't continue on in this way. Talk to your pastor. PRAY!!! Don't cheat on her, please.

Love, Heather

 

[psycmajor]

By the way, was the abuse sexual?

 

[tonytech]

I will pray for you both. My marriage of 13 years has just ended. We had issues that were swept under the carpet and unresolved, She could not trust me and I felt unloved. We abandoned the church.
Since divorce I've discovered that God can and does answer prayer.
T

 

[desi]

You people astound me. This fellow has tried therapy and prayer for three years and it has failed, he's on his third counselor? What I suggest is for him to get the skills to fix his marriage basically using the same principles many therapists use. This will save him money and get him results. Would you prefer he divorces or cheats on her? You nay sayers are uncanny with your predictable hand wringing and 'just pray and it'll be okay' responses to many of my unorthodox suggestions. As Christians we should offer practical advice as well as spiritual/emotional support. And its not a sex manual, reread my prior explaination of it HeatherJay.

 

[Risen Tree]

desi, that may sound good and all, but you've got to be careful where this goes. Some women might well consider your advise to be non-violent rape.

 

[psycmajor]

The big issue is that she shouldn't be expected to repress the experience. It'll cause much more pain in the long run. It needs to be addressed directly. I think the traumatic experience is the barrier to the sex; don't try to force your way through the barrier to get to the sex part. It's like operating on a person using a rusty machete rather than a sterile scalpel. It's bound to fail.

 

[ceres]

Everyone take it easy. I think as many suggestions as possible are good even if they are unorthodox. Desi is just trying to help (although I was quite shocked by the first one that suggested telling her its her martial duty to have sex-- like THATS going to work hahaha). I don't see anyone saying anything about non violent rape here. I have no idea where THAT came from.

Obviously a big difficulty is her past. But I think another difficulty is that she has gotten used to living without sex and so she doesn't feel its missing because she doesn't want it. Its a lower priority to her than it is to you. She doesn't "need" it to be happy, but you do. This happens a lot more often with women than men, but it does happen.

Have you done much reading on emotional needs? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html
That stuff is pretty good. So is The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Maybe you meet all of her needs without physical intimacy, but she doesn't understand how one of your needs IS the physical intimacy. Why don't you two do some reading together, but DON'T start out by saying "look I have needs", just read it and let her pick out what is important to you and see if she understands.

 

[HeatherJay]

You people astound me. This fellow has tried therapy and prayer for three years and it has failed, he's on his third counselor? What I suggest is for him to get the skills to fix his marriage basically using the same principles many therapists use. This will save him money and get him results. Would you prefer he divorces or cheats on her? You nay sayers are uncanny with your predictable hand wringing and 'just pray and it'll be okay' responses to many of my unorthodox suggestions. As Christians we should offer practical advice as well as spiritual/emotional support. And its not a sex manual, reread my prior explaination of it HeatherJay.

Desi, I don't know what the program is that you're talking about, even after your description of it. My comment was somwhat in jest...sorry if you misunderstood my post. It wasn't meant to discredit your advice. My impression after reading your initial post was that you were somewhat joking yourself. I guess I misunderstood as well.

Love, Heather

 

[YouthPastor]

First let me say that david only said that his wife had a difficult childhood and does not explain how or what was difficult - so we can only speculate. So without knowing what was so difficult, but based on the fact that they anticipated a problem with having sex, some type of sexual abuse in her past would be a good guess.

Desi is right in the fact that she is supposed to have sex with him and vice versa - however, going to her and saying, "look wife, You are required to have sex with me , so let's go to the bedroom" - is not going to help things.

Being that they have gone through three councelors - I would guess that there is a whole lot more going on that what david has posted or that he could even try to post.

David, why is it that you keep switching councelors? is your wife "running" from getting help? by this I mean - does the counceling seem to start to have an impact - but then you wife wants to try a different councelor?

What is your wife's reasoning for not haveing sex with you?

Is she open to foreplay at all or is all sexual touch not allowed?

Basically - right now my main concern is why so many councelors?

And - what is her reasoning behind not having sex?

 

[davidjones2100]

well, my wife was not sexually abused (this has been extensively explored for repressed memories - since she is symptomatic), however she lived in a highly oppressive and threatening environment dominated by her father (with whom she no longer has anything to do with).

She finds barriers in the fear of failure, or not living up to expectations. When we've tried to be intimate and failed it has been because of these feelings - and yes, i've worked very hard in being accommodating and accepting of this, being as gentle and as encouraging as i can. But let me tell you, after lots of 'rejection' these feelings become less real, then it becomes a front, and then it becomes easier to stop trying.

To answer another question, she was seeing one counselor for several years who the needed to refer her to another, extremely well respected therapist – whom she has been seeing for two years. My wife continues to see him, and we also see an independent marriage counselor.

She doesn’t not want sex, however I don’t believe she feels the need (except perhaps out of obligation and the desire for family). If we could be married with only light levels of physical intimacy, she would probably enjoy it and be quite ok with it.

I’m not sure I can add more to this, the situation is immensely complex. Suffice to say, I’m probably now more wrestling with whether/how to end my marriage as gently(!) as I can. I’m going to struggle being in this situation much longer, and I think its going to be better for me to be out of it.

When does it come a time that you need to take care of yourself?