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- Thread starter raven1
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I have prayed for over a year for prove and nothing makes me think I wasn't chosen by him to be saved. I need help with some hardcore proof of God.what are some of u guys hardcore proof he exists.
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The only thing that helLps me is near death experiences but they are NEAR death not dead for days and come back but I fear if I study those I will go to hell. I don't even feel I can cope with my fear there may be nothing after we die without feeling like God will send me to hell because it is doubting he exists and all it does is send me into depression to think about that but how do I not when it is such a big fear. I mean like evidence. Like bible say the bible but who really wrote it. There is rumor the church made Christianty up. I don't want to go to hell for doubting but I need one hundred percent proof but faith is vital to salvation without it u are not saved. Alot of people say they doubted Gods existence but didn't truly feel it they knew it was false. I truly doubt he exists and it could have absolutely nothing to do with OCD the doubt could be me. I was watching this thing on dark matter and how it created our universe and it made my doubt worse. I don't want to fall away from God and burn in hell if he is real. All I can say is I don't know if he does or doesn't. I also feel like I have to study everything to know if I believe
evolution more or God more. Science makes me doubt God so much. I only beleve just in case he is there. That is y I am so scared he won't forgive me. If it wasn't for peoples nde testimonies I probably wouldn't believe in God but I can't prove those either. How would he ever be able to let me into heaven and not send me to hell.
evolution more or God more. Science makes me doubt God so much. I only beleve just in case he is there. That is y I am so scared he won't forgive me. If it wasn't for peoples nde testimonies I probably wouldn't believe in God but I can't prove those either. How would he ever be able to let me into heaven and not send me to hell.
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Interesting. The more I learn about science the more I feel convinced that God must exist. It depends on the source your hear it from, because many popular science media are slanted towards atheism to cater towards a liberal audience. I studied biology in college, and saw a lot of evidence for evolution. But only as a mechanism for adaptation. When most scientists talk about evolution, it is this mechanism that they are referring to. The idea of abiogenesis (the theory that life evolved from inorganic matter) is as far as I can tell mostly unsupported. It is very unlikely, but since popular media doesn't want to admit God's role in anything it is the only alternative to creation.
As for the origin of the universe, scientists aren't seeking to prove or disprove God. They are just looking for how the universe came about, not why or by Whose authority. Eventually there has to be an original cause for reality, and whatever it is has to be outside of nature. By definition, that which caused nature to exist has to be supernatural.
I love science, and have studied it in college and beyond. The more I study the more I see evidence for God. The universe is just so amazing, complex, and beautiful. It works so intricately with everything like clockwork. It can't be an accident.
If you had perfect faith you surely realize that good deeds don't keep you out of Heaven. You feel that you are bad because you are sinful. Just like the rest of us. That's why we need a savior. It would be a bad sign if you saw yourself as good, and worse if you thought you could get into Heaven by your good works.
I could be wrong, but I am guessing most of your doubt is actually an obsessive worry that you are doubting. I think belief is one of those things that is elusive when you try to analyze it. That's just a guess, it's just that your doubt sounds to me as though it feeds off of your worry.
As for the origin of the universe, scientists aren't seeking to prove or disprove God. They are just looking for how the universe came about, not why or by Whose authority. Eventually there has to be an original cause for reality, and whatever it is has to be outside of nature. By definition, that which caused nature to exist has to be supernatural.
I love science, and have studied it in college and beyond. The more I study the more I see evidence for God. The universe is just so amazing, complex, and beautiful. It works so intricately with everything like clockwork. It can't be an accident.
If you had perfect faith you surely realize that good deeds don't keep you out of Heaven. You feel that you are bad because you are sinful. Just like the rest of us. That's why we need a savior. It would be a bad sign if you saw yourself as good, and worse if you thought you could get into Heaven by your good works.
I could be wrong, but I am guessing most of your doubt is actually an obsessive worry that you are doubting. I think belief is one of those things that is elusive when you try to analyze it. That's just a guess, it's just that your doubt sounds to me as though it feeds off of your worry.
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My doubt exists because of my fear of no heaven. That is how it all started. I thought I was going to die so I thought maybe there is no heaven then maybe there is no God. I don't want to go to hell but like I said my position is I don't know if there is a God or not. I mostly doubt there is. I want to believe in God to exscape hell but the more apologetics and science I read the more I doubt. Part of me wants to study to see if I am mostly agnostic but what if that makes me atheist. Part of me knows I will always have some faith and also doubt. What do I do?
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gracealone
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Nothing will make you an agnostic or an athiest. Those positions must be chosen and the person choosing them must desire them. Agnostics choose to say, "I don't know" and they really like that position because they think it excuses them from dealing with the concept of a God to whom they are accountable. Their motto should be "ignorance is bliss." Athiest's take it a step further and say "I refuse to believe!" and they also really like their disbelief. The reason being is that both positions allow for a person to be god to themselves. "I am the captain of my ship the master of my fate." So.. if you were to choose them you wouldn't be at all unhappy about it or concerned or afraid about it. (The gates of hell are locked from the inside. CS Lewis) You'd be proud of it and live your life as if you hadn't a care in the world, most especially when it came to the idea of there being a God. If you decided to join up with a club that was for agnostics, (if there is such a thing), they'd kick you out because you'd be pushing them to try and find out if there was a God or not and like I said they've chosen to say, "I don't know and I don't want to know." Is that how you feel or what you want?
So much for all that eh? I'll bet it won't make you feel better at all. You'll still have one more "what if?", or "what about this?" to ruminate about.
Like I said before, no logical arguement or evidence will alleviate your suffering because you have OCD. The more you ask for reassurance or proof the deeper you'll get into the disorder. It's rather like struggling in quicksand. Wouldn't you just like to quit struggling? Aren't you tired of this battle? Isn't it sheer torture? If so... then really you've nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain by seeking professional help.
I sooooo wish you would and that is my prayer for you.
Mitzi
So much for all that eh? I'll bet it won't make you feel better at all. You'll still have one more "what if?", or "what about this?" to ruminate about.
Like I said before, no logical arguement or evidence will alleviate your suffering because you have OCD. The more you ask for reassurance or proof the deeper you'll get into the disorder. It's rather like struggling in quicksand. Wouldn't you just like to quit struggling? Aren't you tired of this battle? Isn't it sheer torture? If so... then really you've nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain by seeking professional help.
I sooooo wish you would and that is my prayer for you.
Mitzi
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I Have thought before if I become atheist maybe I will not stress anymore but that just makes my fear of hell go through the roof. I don't want hell and near death experiences be the only reason I believe but it is.
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When I was at a low point of thinking that I could not be saved, I thought briefly that I should try to become an atheist so that I would at least have peace of mind in this life. But I knew there was too much evidence out there for me to get away with that.
Do you suppose that perhaps you are over thinking things? If you had a saving faith before, then the Holy Spirit is probably still in you. In such a case, maybe you should stop trying to convince yourself of something that deep down you already know in your heart. It's just a thought, but maybe if you ignored the apologetics and just read the Bible and prayed, everything would fall into place. Perhaps you are just listening too much to your own thoughts for assurance.
Just an idea.
Do you suppose that perhaps you are over thinking things? If you had a saving faith before, then the Holy Spirit is probably still in you. In such a case, maybe you should stop trying to convince yourself of something that deep down you already know in your heart. It's just a thought, but maybe if you ignored the apologetics and just read the Bible and prayed, everything would fall into place. Perhaps you are just listening too much to your own thoughts for assurance.
Just an idea.
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That is the equivalent of saying I will try to relax and hope I am savEd. How can anyone do that. I once had a person say if I go to hell I go to hell God is just. He was a doubter too. How can someone do that.
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That's not exactly what I meant. What I mean is, perhaps you are overthinking the whole thing, and by flooding your mind with a search for proof you are simply creating more doubt. From what I can tell our assurance of salvation comes from the Holy Spirit, and if you had a saving faith that assurance ought to still be there because the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable.
I know how hard it is to relax though if you don't know for sure about your salvation. It's awful, I know. I have been fighting that fear off and on for two months now.
I know how hard it is to relax though if you don't know for sure about your salvation. It's awful, I know. I have been fighting that fear off and on for two months now.
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tripletiger1200
Amazing Grace, How Sweet the Sound
Exposure therapy. He either did not have OCD and therefore didn't care as much as we tend to do, or he went over the thought over and over in his head, picturing every detail over long periods of time until his brain just stopped fearing it.
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how can you not care about hell. today someone said God could just be a higher power not jesus and no afterlife so I am stressing about that. how do I just relax and say I will follow God (jesus) hope that's enough to save me. and how do I not freak out by possible non existence also.
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Sometimes it helps me to not try to relax. In my case it can make my anxiety worse if I try to stop it. God isn't going to deny you salvation because you are scared. Just keep seeking Him through it all.
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tripletiger1200
Amazing Grace, How Sweet the Sound
The way I see it, you have two options. Just try to relax through it, or meet it head on until you stop fearing.
I think you just need to keep asking God for help. He doesn't leave you when you are scared, and He is a lot better at helping than anything else in the world.
I think you just need to keep asking God for help. He doesn't leave you when you are scared, and He is a lot better at helping than anything else in the world.
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