Non-theism

[Annabel Lee]

The cowards way is quoting the Bible and standing behind it?? If so, I hope I'm a coward.
Someone starts a thread about Atheism and I simply quote a Bible verse which DIRECTLY answers about what God thinks on this subject and that's being a coward?
I'm sorry, but you are seriously disillusioned.

It needs fanatical faith to rationalize our cowardice.
- Eric Hoffer

 

[UMP]

It needs fanatical faith to rationalize our cowardice.
- Eric Hoffer

Sorry,
I'll stick with the Bible, God's Word.

 

[Logic]

Sorry,
I'll stick with the Bible, God's Word.

I'll stick with the Qu'ran, God's real word.

 

[Edward Vil - E for short]

I am seriously disillusioned.

 

[StainedClassKing]

It's the word of God. The word of God is a sword. I'm trying to WAKE PEOPLE UP to the truth. You can call it trolling, I don't care.

I am reporting you. This is kind of like if someone comes on here and says they are sick and asks for prayers and verse and so someone chooses to post 2 Kings 18:27, "But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own **** with you?"

Just because it's a bible verse doesn't automatically make it appropriate. And I'm going to explain it is this way in the report.

 

[Edward Vil - E for short]

You are seriously dissillusioned.

 

[challenger]

Psalms 53:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good."

*Turns other cheek*
Go on, have another pop, you know you want to.

 

[challenger]

The cowards way is quoting the Bible and standing behind it?? If so, I hope I'm a coward.
Someone starts a thread about Atheism and I simply quote a Bible verse which DIRECTLY answers about what God thinks on this subject and that's being a coward?
I'm sorry, but you are seriously disillusioned.

I wasn't talking about atheism, I was talking about non-theism, they are philosophically distinct in their approach to God.

 

[ksen]

MOD HAT ON:

Let's stick to the topic of the OP.

MOD HAT OFF.

 

[Earl Presto]

I just wanted to explain my beliefs as a non-theist, particularly to see if anybody has any constructive criticism or if there are any holes in my arguments:

What is non-theism?
Essentially a non-theist is someone who does not have faith in a personal God, in non-theist philosophy, God's existence or inexistence is irrelevant.

For simplicity's sake, when I say God here, I mean an intelligent, supernatural entity (or group of such entities) which created the universe and by supernatural, I mean not bound by the laws of physics as we understand them, particularly cause and effect.

Why non-theism?
First off, there is no evidence (to my knowledge) that theists are more moral people or that they are less likely to do anything society traditionally views as "wrong" or "evil". Thus God is unecessary for a healthy human society to exist, moral behaviour is dependent on individuals, not upon absolutes imposed by a divine entity. Hence unless God can be shown to have a useful function, such an entity is irrelevant.

So outside of morality, what function is God claimed to perform? The first answer that comes to my mind is the idea of an afterlife. Leaving aside the question of whether eternal consciousness is any better than oblivion (I'm not so sure that it is), we are innevitably led to the idea of "Pascal's Wager". Besides the fact that the odds of picking the "right religion" are incredibly slim, even if there was only one possible true religion with a God who punishes you for picking the wrong one, I personally could not bring myself to worship such an entity. How can one possibly spend eternity in willing service to a tyrant? I'd go insane (assuming that such a God would even allow me that much free will). Hence the afterlife/Pascal's Wager is not a valid reason to be a theist

The above two paragraphs cover my thoughts on faith in a personal God. The next two paragraphs will adress the argument for the existence of an intelligent creator God.

Next, the "first cause" argument, this classical argument runs thus: "everything requires a cause, hence there must be a first cause, this cause would have to be outside of the laws of physics as we understand them (and hence can be described as a "God"), or it too would require a cause". The error in this logic is to assume that the universe is temporally finite, that is to say, that the universe doesn't stretch into an infinite expanse of time. Scientifically speaking we can't assume either way. Even if the first cause argument were not fallacious, it would tell us nothing of the nature of such a God and hence we still wouldn't know which God to worship.

Similar to the first cause argument is the "divine watchmaker" argument, the argument that the complexity of the universe lends itself to intelligent creation. The example often used is a watch in a desert with no footprints around for miles. However, this is merely anthropomorphising, we know that a watch cannot make itself and thus has to be made, we don't know either way whether a universe has to be made. After all, snowflakes are incredibly complex, but they are no individually designed by an intelligent entity, despite their subjective beauty and complexity.

In conclusion, God is irrelevant to humanity, both morally and logically, we just can't know whether God exists or not, so why worry about it?

Please tell me if I've missed anything.

I'd have to agree with you, for the bigger part.

However, i've kept the assumption that IF there is a God, i'd have to be able to experience it in person, not by reading a book (even though that can help as a manual, but is usually just too confusing when it comes to a book such as the bible), or by having someone else tell me what HE believes, hoping that i will subscribe to his ideas and join his church (as is often the motive behind conversion-activity).

In my experience, if you want to experience the devine, it's best to give up all ideas about God you have.. any such ideas will just make you miss the point. It'd be more instructive to go to a beach on a balmy summer-evening, lay down in the sand and just be in the moment during a sunset.

IF God is the embodyment of love, joy, bliss and peace, it's in these properties that you will find 'God', if that's what you want to call it. Just don't expect a booming voice from the sky to tell you 'Hi there, earthling.. you were looking for me'?

 

[UMP]

I am reporting you. This is kind of like if someone comes on here and says they are sick and asks for prayers and verse and so someone chooses to post 2 Kings 18:27, "But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own **** with you?"

Just because it's a bible verse doesn't automatically make it appropriate. And I'm going to explain it is this way in the report.

You can report me till the cows come home. It does not change anything regarding how this verse applies to Atheists.
Your example is LUDICROUS. All you are doing is twisting words.
How is this Bible verse not DIRECTLY talking about an Atheist or Non-Theist,what ever flavor you call it?

Psalms 53:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good."

 

[E-beth]

I'd have to agree with you, for the bigger part.

However, i've kept the assumption that IF there is a God, i'd have to be able to experience it in person, not by reading a book (even though that can help as a manual, but is usually just too confusing when it comes to a book such as the bible), or by having someone else tell me what HE believes, hoping that i will subscribe to his ideas and join his church (as is often the motive behind conversion-activity).

In my experience, if you want to experience the devine, it's best to give up all ideas about God you have.. any such ideas will just make you miss the point. It'd be more instructive to go to a beach on a balmy summer-evening, lay down in the sand and just be in the moment during a sunset.

IF God is the embodyment of love, joy, bliss and peace, it's in these properties that you will find 'God', if that's what you want to call it. Just don't expect a booming voice from the sky to tell you 'Hi there, earthling.. you were looking for me'?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

For me, it's sorta like childbirth. Before I had a child, I could say the words to describe what I had been told childbirth was like. I could read books using descriptive language to learn what childbirth is like. I even took classes so when I was ready for childbirth, I had all the knowledge I could. Then I went into labor. NOTHING I read described the process adequately. The theories went out the window. It is just something you have to experience to know. The same can be true of a relationship with God. He isn't my genie to grant my every wish. He isn't my pet that I can deal with on my terms. He is more than that, and what He is is actually pretty hard to describe to someone who has never experienced it.

 

[UMP]

*Turns other cheek*
Go on, have another pop, you know you want to.

This thread is about Atheism. The quote is a direct application to the topic. You can stick your head in the ground till the official language of Puerto Rico becomes Mandarin Chinese. It makes no difference.
It's not a pop, It's God word and it's a sword.

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

 

[UMP]

I wasn't talking about atheism, I was talking about non-theism, they are philosophically distinct in their approach to God.

Yeah,
Whatever.
If I need legal help, I'll know who to call.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

*** MOD HAT ON ****

Upon reveiw.. this thead should not be in GA, which is for the discussion of Christianity.
This thread presents ideas pertaining to a non-Christian religion, and so will be moved to that forum.

Dids

 

[challenger]

This thread is about Atheism. The quote is a direct application to the topic.

Even if Atheism and non-theism were the same thing, it still wouldn't apply, I haven't "said in my heart" that "there is no God", I have very specifically said that I don't know and don't care.

You can stick your head in the ground till the official language of Puerto Rico becomes Mandarin Chinese. It makes no difference.

Or untill you discuss the topic at hand, but it'll take a little longer.

Do you have any actual response to the argument or are you just going to carry hiding behind the Bible so you can deny all culpability for your obvious flames and insults?

 

[UMP]

Even if Atheism and non-theism were the same thing, it still wouldn't apply, I haven't "said in my heart" that "there is no God", I have very specifically said that I don't know and don't care.


Or untill you discuss the topic at hand, but it'll take a little longer.

Do you have any actual response to the argument or are you just going to carry hiding behind the Bible so you can deny all culpability for your obvious flames and insults?

Yes, The following is PERFECTLY APPLICABLE AND it's the Word of God.
Psalms 53:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good."

 

[Fuzzy]

UMP, you've cited Psalms 53:1 four times in this thread, you'e made your
opposition to the OP (Challenger explaining Non-Theism) clear. Good for you.
I'm glad you've got a strong faith in your God. But just in the interest of
content, you're not making much progress.

 

[challenger]

Yes, The following is PERFECTLY APPLICABLE AND it's the Word of God.
Psalms 53:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good."

Fine, if you want, I'm an evil fool who can only do evil things and hates everybody, but I'm not going to discuss this with you any longer, you obviously have nothing on topic to say.

 

[UMP]

UMP, you've cited Psalms 53:1 four times in this thread, you'e made your
opposition to the OP (Challenger explaining Non-Theism) clear. Good for you.
I'm glad you've got a strong faith in your God. But just in the interest of
content, you're not making much progress.

That's the point. If you can't get past the non-existence of God, there IS NO PROGRESS. There is....nothing.