Non-Christians: What would you have done?

[Völuspá]

I had a bit of an ethical dilemma over the weekend. I don't have anything wrong with what I did, but I'm curious what others would have done.

So I was coming out of Wal-Mart (bigger ethical dilemma? lol I didn't buy anything!) and this guy asks me if I want to donate to his charity. It was a Christian ministry that helps people get off of drugs and lead a clean life. Even though religion isn't my "thing" I can see how that would help a lot of people, so I proceeded to take out whatever cash I had.

Then he starts asking me if I'm a Christian, to which I said I used to be... Then he launches into some talk about how I'm in luck and can convert back again today, then hands me a standard tract. I was suddenly put off by the whole thing, and really didn't agree with what he was trying to do. I told him that I'd be back later (a lie, but I'm terrible at getting out of weird social situations) because I didn't have a lot of money. He asked me why I changed my mind, because I was about to give. I could have just said he was putting me off, but I really just wanted to get out of there. So I said that I really needed to pay off some bills first (this is a tacky thing to say, but it's totally true. I'm a starving college student and every little bit helps me.) He finally let me go and I went on my way.

Even though the charity was to help other people, I just couldn't bring myself to give to someone who was proselytizing to me. I felt it was disrespectful as I'm quite happy as a nonbeliever. I still believe in the cause, but maybe I could research other charities when I'm in a better place to give. I know I can do whatever I want with my money, but...

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?

 

[awitch]

Unless it's a charity I am very familiar with, I always just say, "No thank you" and keep my hands at my sides (which indicates I will not accept brochures/tracts). No reason to provide any reason for not donating.

If you were uncomfortable with the proselytizing, I think it would be better to have stated that, else he is likely to continue using that approach in the future.

 

[elephunky]

If I was intending to give, I would give to that charity and just say no thanks to attempts to reconvert me and walk away. The actions of one person doesn't necessarily reflect the actions of an entire organisation/charity.

We had some bad comments being made about a particular group of people from the church side of the salvation army, which was damaging the charity side of the salvation army. The only people that get hurt in refusing to donate after comments being made is the people that they help, not the church side of the salvation army itself. If you get what I mean.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Don't dwell on it, just go with the flow. If that was me I would have moved well away. That person is responsible to collect money for the respective charity and be polite, courteous and friendly in that process. To give it the hard sell or even worse to pounce on someone and jump into 'conversion mode' is disrespectful to you, unless of course you had genuine inquiry.

 

[HeathenWarrior]

I do not give to religious charities. I personally do not consider religious charities honest, because Charity for me is based on human virtue and Love, and not on man-made religions. Besides, I wonder just how much of that money is actually going to the people that need it, and not their own pockets...

The situation you described does strike me as a evangelical group trying to get converts with the cover of "Charity for the poor". I find such tactics utterly disgraceful.

 

[LoAmmi]

The only religious charities I donate to are Jewish ones because I know that nobody is going to be pressured to believe or convert. Outside of that, I probably would have just been straight forward and told him I would have given but he put me off.

 

[Mikeb85]

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?

I wouldn't give to a charity that's in the business of proselytizing...

 

[toolmanjantzi]

I had a bit of an ethical dilemma over the weekend. I don't have anything wrong with what I did, but I'm curious what others would have done.

So I was coming out of Wal-Mart (bigger ethical dilemma? lol I didn't buy anything!) and this guy asks me if I want to donate to his charity. It was a Christian ministry that helps people get off of drugs and lead a clean life. Even though religion isn't my "thing" I can see how that would help a lot of people, so I proceeded to take out whatever cash I had.

Then he starts asking me if I'm a Christian, to which I said I used to be... Then he launches into some talk about how I'm in luck and can convert back again today, then hands me a standard tract. I was suddenly put off by the whole thing, and really didn't agree with what he was trying to do. I told him that I'd be back later (a lie, but I'm terrible at getting out of weird social situations) because I didn't have a lot of money. He asked me why I changed my mind, because I was about to give. I could have just said he was putting me off, but I really just wanted to get out of there. So I said that I really needed to pay off some bills first (this is a tacky thing to say, but it's totally true. I'm a starving college student and every little bit helps me.) He finally let me go and I went on my way.

Even though the charity was to help other people, I just couldn't bring myself to give to someone who was proselytizing to me. I felt it was disrespectful as I'm quite happy as a nonbeliever. I still believe in the cause, but maybe I could research other charities when I'm in a better place to give. I know I can do whatever I want with my money, but...

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?

You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie? Also, why are you so put off by not giving. If your so happy without believing in anything, why would anyone care wether you thought you believed in something before? It's very confusing, most true unbelievers could care less about sin, but you go asking people for justification of your wrong doing. Are you still a Christian and your faking your unbelief? If you were truly a believer ever then how is it you think your not now?

just trying to understand, why you care at all?

 

[LoAmmi]

You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie?

I'm not a Christian. It would bother me to lie. Why do you imagine non-Christians lack morals?

 

[awitch]

You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie? Also, why are you so put off by not giving. If your so happy without believing in anything, why would anyone care wether you thought you believed in something before? It's very confusing, most true unbelievers could care less about sin, but you go asking people for justification of your wrong doing. Are you still a Christian and your faking your unbelief? If you were truly a believer ever then how is it you think your not now?

just trying to understand, why you care at all?

Are you implying that you must be a Christian to know that lying is bad (generally speaking) or charity is good (generally speaking)?

 

[durangodawood]

The only religious charities I donate to are Jewish ones because I know that nobody is going to be pressured to believe or convert. Outside of that, I probably would have just been straight forward and told him I would have given but he put me off.

Good idea. Never thought of that.
.

 

[durangodawood]

I had a bit of an ethical dilemma over the weekend. I don't have anything wrong with what I did, but I'm curious what others would have done.

So I was coming out of Wal-Mart (bigger ethical dilemma? lol I didn't buy anything!) and this guy asks me if I want to donate to his charity. It was a Christian ministry that helps people get off of drugs and lead a clean life. Even though religion isn't my "thing" I can see how that would help a lot of people, so I proceeded to take out whatever cash I had.

Then he starts asking me if I'm a Christian, to which I said I used to be... Then he launches into some talk about how I'm in luck and can convert back again today, then hands me a standard tract. I was suddenly put off by the whole thing, and really didn't agree with what he was trying to do. I told him that I'd be back later (a lie, but I'm terrible at getting out of weird social situations) because I didn't have a lot of money. He asked me why I changed my mind, because I was about to give. I could have just said he was putting me off, but I really just wanted to get out of there. So I said that I really needed to pay off some bills first (this is a tacky thing to say, but it's totally true. I'm a starving college student and every little bit helps me.) He finally let me go and I went on my way.

Even though the charity was to help other people, I just couldn't bring myself to give to someone who was proselytizing to me. I felt it was disrespectful as I'm quite happy as a nonbeliever. I still believe in the cause, but maybe I could research other charities when I'm in a better place to give. I know I can do whatever I want with my money, but...

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?

Dont feel bad. Give instead to people who dont behave like a jerk... or dont make you want to behave like a jerk.
.

 

[Zoness]

I only donate to charities that I know have an established, transparent financial record and a mission I agree with. I've considered donating to the Temple of Witchcraft in Salem, NH but since I don't actively partake in that organization it didn't seem like it made much sense. I wouldn't give this any more thought.

If I am approached I just say "sorry no thanks" and if they persist I am honest, either I don't know enough about their organization or I don't fundamentally agree with their ideals. I figure at least I am honest about it. It doesn't really matter to me.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

I'm not a Christian. It would bother me to lie. Why do you imagine non-Christians lack morals?

I don't imagine anything. I was confused as to why it was an issue, that required justification.

 

[xDenax]

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you?

No.

And I don't give money to Christian organizations.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie? Also, why are you so put off by not giving. If your so happy without believing in anything, why would anyone care wether you thought you believed in something before? It's very confusing, most true unbelievers could care less about sin, but you go asking people for justification of your wrong doing. Are you still a Christian and your faking your unbelief? If you were truly a believer ever then how is it you think your not now?

just trying to understand, why you care at all?

Is it really that hard to understand?
Perhaps the OP is feeling slightly uneasy about the whole process of wanting to give to a worthy cause then feeling put off by some dude who thinks he's got something they need and in the process of thrusting the supposed need forward the OP has backtracked with a polite exit out of there and maybe (as Awitch pointed out) with the benefit of hindsight the 'truth' may have been more relevant e.g 'stop with the conversion sell please friend, I don't appreciate it and I won't be donating'. Yes they were honest in saying xyz about their financial situation but would probably have still donated in light of this had the guy not got on his soap box. I'm assuming the OP is wanting to find out what the rest of us would have done. I'm not sure what all your non believer jargon is about?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Even though the charity was to help other people, I just couldn't bring myself to give to someone who was proselytizing to me.

Sure, why reward bad behavior? There are other charities that you could give to, if that is what you want to do.

Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?

No, and yes.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Since I could have been in the same situation, here's my reply...

You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie?

Being an unbeliever doesn't mean that one doesn't have a moral compass. It would bother me to lie in many circumstances not only because of the lesson of the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf (ponder that), but also because I value my character, which I see as necessary to my personal flourishing and happiness, and because I understand intellectually and emotionally that other people are just as much persons as I am with their own dreams and well-being to pursue. This is natural for any reasonably aware individual.

It's very confusing, most true unbelievers could care less about sin, but you go asking people for justification of your wrong doing.

You're right. I don't care about "sin", because "sin" is defined as something along the lines of disobedience to God or missing the target God sets for us. I'm a "true unbeliever" -- someone for whom disobedience to God is as meaningful as disobedience to Odin -- and so I don't care about "sin".

However, I do care about vice. Vice is a kind of clumbsiness at living life. The good values that I manage to get from life depend on wisdom and virtue.

just trying to understand, why you care at all?

I'm a human being. I don't need to be told to care. Do you?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Are you implying that you must be a Christian to know that lying is bad (generally speaking) or charity is good (generally speaking)?

Generally speaking the OP voiced concern for her lying about not giving, but did not voice concern that she lied about being a Christian or a Non-Christian. Generally Speaking I am trying to figure out the need for justification from peers, when in fact there would be no requirement if she was not a Christian, as there would be no consequence for her actions. But then again if she was lying about her unbelief being so great, there would be cause for guilt if she in fact is a Christian who has wondered away from the faith.
Generally speaking from my understanding of Faith and Scripture.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Is it really that hard to understand?
Perhaps the OP is feeling slightly uneasy about the whole process of wanting to give to a worthy cause then feeling put off by some dude who thinks he's got something they need and in the process of thrusting the supposed need forward the OP has backtracked with a polite exit out of there and maybe (as Awitch pointed out) with the benefit of hindsight the 'truth' may have been more relevant e.g 'stop with the conversion sell please friend, I don't appreciate it and I won't be donating'. Yes they were honest in saying xyz about their financial situation but would probably have still donated in light of this had the guy not got on his soap box. I'm assuming the OP is wanting to find out what the rest of us would have done. I'm not sure what all your non believer jargon is about?

That's what I don't understand either. Why is the OPs unbelief or past belief have any bearing on the decision of lying to someone, based on their belief that she was worthy of being shown how to believe. Why is it a cause for justification by peers if there is no belief?