Non believers on a Christian forum

[OldAbramBrown]

You can't spit out what you don't have.

What we - or my acquaintances - have is the substitute though.

 

[AV1611VET]

What we - or my acquaintances - have is the substitute though.

Which is?

 

[OldAbramBrown]

Which is?

You can see my accounts of my insights in other threads (pull up my screen name). In a nutshell, many church authorities conflated distinct Holy Spirit actions. (This was a sample because it was you that cited that verse.)

Because those were crucial to the Good News, outsiders and even insiders mostly sniff out the inconsistency. That they keep hanging around I take as a good sign and a challenge to us to stop cheating on them and ourselves.

 

[AV1611VET]

You can see my accounts of my insights in other threads (pull up my screen name). In a nutshell, many church authorities conflated distinct Holy Spirit actions. (This was a sample because it was you that cited that verse.)

Because those were crucial to the Good News, outsiders and even insiders mostly sniff out the inconsistency. That they keep hanging around I take as a good sign and a challenge to us to stop cheating on them and ourselves.

Sorry.

I don't have a clue as to what you're saying.

Are you agreeing with me about anything?

If not, and if you want to discuss it, let's both talk plainly.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

Sorry ... plainly.

You appeared to ask who would pass up the benefits in Heb 6:4-5 which applies this to church teachers.
OP didn't ask us to discuss specific teaching in detail (nor salmon or sons in law) but what motivates repeat nonbeliever visits.
I'm saying they are looking extra hard for what they haven't quite seen.
Please try my name in the site index (I posted them today and yesterday)
You cited a Holy Spirit point, but my point applies to all topics.
I do think this is the core topic in the Gospel though.
I derive teachings from meanings of texts.
In the case in point, what is the meaning of the verses cited on Holy Spirit and how would it help non believers to not pass up some benefits? (Clue: distinct actions of Holy Spirit)
Otherwise, does this not take us back to where OB was?
(Most "atheism" is an overtly and tentative atheistic agnosticism)

 

[Larniavc]

It's allusions. We got told those are claims, by those who seek to use it for their purposes. You could call them statements.

I was citing specific verses cited by 1611VET (post 53).

My point was that persons positioning themselves as public authoritative interpreters, have insufficient grasp of the meaning of statements about Holy Spirit, hence outsiders intuit that the propaganda doesn't quite hang together. Hence my answer in post 124 (middle of all the leaping salmon talk) to the question of some individuals supposedly giving up what they didn't have because it wasn't really given them.

I realise this isn't what OP wanted but I have mingled with enough enquirers and even long term insiders to be empathetic with the results of their legitimate quandaries. Usually the target responders to this enquiry are unsurprisingly in such justified refusal to take up any received terminology, that it might well be misconstrued (by some) as hostile.

140 (and subsequent discussion), 128, 124 and 11 also refer. I was commending OB's articulate reply to OP in 11.

My point is that we cannot a priori assume the accuracy of the claims of the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

My point is that we cannot a priori assume the accuracy of the claims of the Bible.

How 'bout we do it on faith then?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Or cause-and-effect works (like churches being built)?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Or personal experience?

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

 

[Larniavc]

How 'bout we do it on faith then?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Or cause-and-effect works (like churches being built)?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Or personal experience?

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

But that is what I’m saying that one cannot do. Otherwise faith is little more than hoping what you read in the Bible is true.

And as someone who does not buy into what the Bible claims (because claims are two a penny) I don’t understand the position of people who say ‘yes: the claims of the Bible are sufficient to believe’.

Claims are not evidence.

 

[Larniavc]

Or cause-and-effect works (like churches being built)?

By that logic the pyramids of the Mesoamerican cultures point to their gods being real.

 

[AV1611VET]

By that logic the pyramids of the Mesoamerican cultures point to their gods being real.

Perhaps they were fallen angels, masquerading as gods?

 

[Larniavc]

Perhaps they were fallen angels, masquerading as gods?

Yeah, that could be true. But I have no way to know and no reason to suspect that they are not both nothing more than a long line of made up entities; made up by stone to bronze age peoples.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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By Staff Consensus, this thread is closed due to too many rule violations.​