• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Non-believer/believer converts please help

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
I am a happily married father of 3. I am honest, smart, successful and have a great life. But something is missing.

(1) I feel that I am an atheist because the supernatural seems irrational.

(2) But I think I am agnostic because I know that I do not know everything.

(3) I have been drawn to try to know God for about 20 years now.

(A) I tried to feel/understand faith threw knowledge but knowledge does not seem to create faith.

(B) I tried to feel/understand faith threw theory but theory for me instructs the mind and has no influence over what I feel to be true.

I realized 15 years ago that I am in a tiny minority that has no belief in a higher power. This has been the most confusing part of my life because I am so normal. So far I have gathered that faith is not knowledge or disposition. People who grow up as atheists can develop faith. The faithful can lose faith. No amount of education can give or take away faith. Faith is not a product of a certain environment or any other type of experience. This is evident by the demographics of the faithful and non-faithful. The rich, poor, happy, unhappy, disturbed, sane, sick, healthy, stagnated, thriving, good, bad, old, young, educated, ignorant, etc. do and do not have faith. Some make it their life's work to discover faith and some effortlessly have faith for as far back as they can remember and these two types of people can grow up in identical house holds. Faith comes from within and how this happens must be impossible to understand. I think the only person who can answer this is someone who has honestly been a non believer and then a believer.

I know only what I have learned in my position as a non believer. What I need is the view of someone who was in my position but is now a believer.

Please non-believer to believer converts,,,,,, what happened? What for you clicked? What changed? How did you develop faith?
:confused: :groupray: :)
 

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
8,827
3,184
Pennsylvania, USA
✟944,844.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Well is there not an ideal of love & yet we see the world around us (& ourselves) either has partially true, or convoluted notions of, or is lacking it? Does not this love transcend anything that could be conceived by the human mind and not be a created thing? Somehow we are not at one with it, many virtuous people have striven for it but cannot really acquire it. Yet in Christianity there is a Saviour who some say is an idealized human concept, or an an enlightened being but (from faith here)actually transcended natural laws (of His creation), born of the blessed virgin mother, who gives us the eternal life by His loving Father who sent His only begotten Son by His Holy Spirit. To quote the blessed verse, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16-17). Is not St. Paul's definition of love (1 Corinthians 13) unmatched & given to him by an absolute authority beyond human concepts? May you be blessed & hoping to be helpful, a sinner.
 
Upvote 0

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Well is there not an ideal of love & yet we see the world around us (& ourselves) either has partially true, or convoluted notions of, or is lacking it? Does not this love transcend anything that could be conceived by the human mind and not be a created thing? Somehow we are not at one with it, many virtuous people have striven for it but cannot really acquire it. Yet in Christianity there is a Saviour who some say is an idealized human concept, or an an enlightened being but (from faith here)actually transcended natural laws (of His creation), born of the blessed virgin mother, who gives us the eternal life by His loving Father who sent His only begotten Son by His Holy Spirit. To quote the blessed verse, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16-17). Is not St. Paul's definition of love (1 Corinthians 13) unmatched & given to him by an absolute authority beyond human concepts? May you be blessed & hoping to be helpful, a sinner.
Well, I suppose there is an ideal of love. I imagine it would be all that love could be described as. And yes the world and ourselves have convoluted notions of it. I imagine in ways, we lack it. And yes I am sure we have partially true notions of it. I do not feel that love transcends the ability to conceive of it. Sorry I do not think the analogy is a related comparison. I appreciate you time and your interest. I am hoping to hear from someone who can relate to my post and can tell me their personal testimony from that perspective. Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

th1bill

A Believer/Follower
Jul 5, 2003
1,299
228
80
Texas
Visit site
✟108,777.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I am a happily married father of 3. I am honest, smart, successful and have a great life. But something is missing.

(1) I feel that I am an atheist because the supernatural seems irrational.

(2) But I think I am agnostic because I know that I do not know everything.

(3) I have been drawn to try to know God for about 20 years now.

(A) I tried to feel/understand faith threw knowledge but knowledge does not seem to create faith.

(B) I tried to feel/understand faith threw theory but theory for me instructs the mind and has no influence over what I feel to be true.

I realized 15 years ago that I am in a tiny minority that has no belief in a higher power. This has been the most confusing part of my life because I am so normal. So far I have gathered that faith is not knowledge or disposition. People who grow up as atheists can develop faith. The faithful can lose faith. No amount of education can give or take away faith. Faith is not a product of a certain environment or any other type of experience. This is evident by the demographics of the faithful and non-faithful. The rich, poor, happy, unhappy, disturbed, sane, sick, healthy, stagnated, thriving, good, bad, old, young, educated, ignorant, etc. do and do not have faith. Some make it their life's work to discover faith and some effortlessly have faith for as far back as they can remember and these two types of people can grow up in identical house holds. Faith comes from within and how this happens must be impossible to understand. I think the only person who can answer this is someone who has honestly been a non believer and then a believer.

I know only what I have learned in my position as a non believer. What I need is the view of someone who was in my position but is now a believer.

Please non-believer to believer converts,,,,,, what happened? What for you clicked? What changed? How did you develop faith?
:confused: :groupray: :)
Jim,
.. Most likely you are already guilty of having faith. Being a father myself I know I was before my conversion. I could never have raised my son without faith and before I was saved I had placed a very large chunk of my faith in the scientific community. Eventually I reached the point that I needed to examine what I believed and what was fact, I believe you are there now.
.. The Christian faith made no sense to me at all because it flew in the face of everything I had been taught to be true in school. The first step you will need to complete is the verification of what you have been taught. To do that you will need to examine both sides of the issues. For myself, the examination of the Big Bang Theory was without any merit what-so-ever and even the scientist admits this is true. Then there is the Evolution of the species that fill the earth today. Since I discovered what I had known and chose to ignore, that there is not a single shred of supporting evidence for that theory, in spite of over a century of constant examination, I once more found myself wanting for an answer.
.. What really shook my foundation was the truth about the process used for dating the discoveries that are used to establish a time line. It's been a while now but the best I recall the subject material is tested many times and the results of each test yield a different date. This is not serious until you find out that the results swing from a few years to a few billion years. That was the one that did it for me, I lost all faith in the scientific method for qn explanation of our origin.
.. This journey is much simpler today than in the past, we have the internet. Type in the information you seek and then look at some of the results and finally highlight everything in the address bar and type "icr.org" without the quotes. There you will find scientists that, like myself, have rejected the lies and seek after the truth.
.. For myself I still understood that there is, not must be but is, a reason for all of this to exist. Since science cannot provide the answer I seek by itself and religion is so firmly established on the earth I looked there and in the seeking of God I discarded religion and found a relationship with the God of the Jew and the Christian, Yahweh. Today I attend a Christian Church for worship and follow God, where ever He leads.
.. I'm not very regular on this site but I do hope this helps you in your journey. Good luck but mor than that, God bless!
 
Upvote 0

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Jim,
.. Most likely you are already guilty of having faith. Being a father myself I know I was before my conversion. I could never have raised my son without faith and before I was saved I had placed a very large chunk of my faith in the scientific community. Eventually I reached the point that I needed to examine what I believed and what was fact, I believe you are there now.
.. The Christian faith made no sense to me at all because it flew in the face of everything I had been taught to be true in school. The first step you will need to complete is the verification of what you have been taught. To do that you will need to examine both sides of the issues. For myself, the examination of the Big Bang Theory was without any merit what-so-ever and even the scientist admits this is true. Then there is the Evolution of the species that fill the earth today. Since I discovered what I had known and chose to ignore, that there is not a single shred of supporting evidence for that theory, in spite of over a century of constant examination, I once more found myself wanting for an answer.
.. What really shook my foundation was the truth about the process used for dating the discoveries that are used to establish a time line. It's been a while now but the best I recall the subject material is tested many times and the results of each test yield a different date. This is not serious until you find out that the results swing from a few years to a few billion years. That was the one that did it for me, I lost all faith in the scientific method for qn explanation of our origin.
.. This journey is much simpler today than in the past, we have the internet. Type in the information you seek and then look at some of the results and finally highlight everything in the address bar and type "icr.org" without the quotes. There you will find scientists that, like myself, have rejected the lies and seek after the truth.
.. For myself I still understood that there is, not must be but is, a reason for all of this to exist. Since science cannot provide the answer I seek by itself and religion is so firmly established on the earth I looked there and in the seeking of God I discarded religion and found a relationship with the God of the Jew and the Christian, Yahweh. Today I attend a Christian Church for worship and follow God, where ever He leads.
.. I'm not very regular on this site but I do hope this helps you in your journey. Good luck but mor than that, God bless!
Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'll read this a few more times over the next few days to soak this in. Thanks again. This helps a great deal.
 
Upvote 0

HypnoToad

*croak*
Site Supporter
May 29, 2005
5,876
485
✟104,802.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
As the1bill points out, you do already have faith. And if you have faith to be an unbeliever, you certainly can have faith to be a believer.

If you haven't read it, "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" by Geisler & Turek is an interesting book on the subject.
 
Upvote 0

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
As the1bill points out, you do already have faith. And if you have faith to be an unbeliever, you certainly can have faith to be a believer.

If you haven't read it, "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" by Geisler & Turek is an interesting book on the subject.
Thanks,,,, I went ahead and bought it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290224932719 I'll read is after finals next week. It looks like a great book. Thanks again.
 
Upvote 0

Emmy

Senior Veteran
Feb 15, 2004
10,200
940
✟66,005.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Dear jimtem. You had some good replies, and I too believe that you already have Faith. God knows your wish for Faith, He will not come and tip you on the shoulder, and say " Here is the Faith you asked for." Only you yourself know, how sincerely you want Faith to believe. God is Love, He loves you, and He wants you to have Faith. Accept it, Jim, and thank God for it. I know what I am talking about, I did not accept God because I wanted to, I accepted God because I believed His promise to me. " Ask and it will be given to you," God is no Liar, Jim, Satan is the liar, and he makes you doubt, as he did from the very beginning in the Garden of Eden. I say this humbly and with love, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
How do you get true faith? Faith isn't "blind". Just like you have faith in your car to get you to work. I'm a christian for spiritual reasons and intellectually second. There is overwhelming evidence on the validity of the Bible and no it doesn't contradict science. I'm a scientist - you may want to visit www.reasons.org - its about faith and belief. A PhD in Chemistry started this website. And Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning bible). And one more Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former atheist). Below is information in a nutshell about Bible only. No other religious book or book period comes close to this type of evidence. Only a God could have written it. One aspect out of many is that there are hundreds of detailed prophesies that has come true and more to be fulfilled.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.



Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel









 
Upvote 0

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
How do you get true faith? Faith isn't "blind". Just like you have faith in your car to get you to work. I'm a christian for spiritual reasons and intellectually second. There is overwhelming evidence on the validity of the Bible and no it doesn't contradict science. I'm a scientist - you may want to visit www.reasons.org - its about faith and belief. A PhD in Chemistry started this website. And Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning bible). And one more Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former atheist). Below is information in a nutshell about Bible only. No other religious book or book period comes close to this type of evidence. Only a God could have written it. One aspect out of many is that there are hundreds of detailed prophesies that has come true and more to be fulfilled.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.



Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
I am not looking to gain knowledge to total a side suppoting of discounting whether beliefe in God is true. I do not think knowledge dictates faith. I began to try to answer this question for myself 15 years ago seeking knowledge. Knowledge did not relate in any way to what I felt to be true. I then began to explore theories, reading theorys and creating my own. Theory did not relate in any way to what I felt to be true. My theories did take away then background chatter in my mind concerning the rationality of belief in God. I decided that belief was not irrational. I dont know what I need. I am guessing that what I need it to relate to people who have been in my shoes. People who were athiests in thier heart, agnostic in thier minds but coudnt discount God, couldnt forget thier need to persue faith. I have a driving need to feel what others feel. 95% of the world belive in a higher power,,,,,,,, Those are prety good odds that most are right and I am wrong. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, here I am,,,,,,,,, needing to feel, what is likely to exist...


If anyone is interested here are my theories I wrote years ago. Its all old news to me,,
The goal of the following is to assist in the debate on whether we are the crown jewels of creation or the product of chance.
Here is my argument for the existence of God based on my limited universe theory. God does exist and this is evident by the definition of all that exists. For example. Can you fathom the unending universe? No, it is unimaginable. It is not like the number system. It cannot continue without end. And if it were to end, what would exist beyond its borders? That is unimaginable. Existence of existence beyond existence or continuous existence can only exist as other than natural. It can only be understood as supernatural. Therefore the edges of existence would have to be defined. A definer would be supernatural, this allows for the existence of God.
Here is my argument against the prime mover theory. The heavenly bodies were put in motion by high energy physics. You can place two objects in space and if they are not pulled by the magnetism of a larger body then they will move together. And through the reaction caused by the maximum implosion of matter, matter is propelled with great force. Implosion/explosion is the natural state of matter due to magnetism and physical reaction. Even if we argued this idea down to how an immobile quart went from an imploding motion of kinetic energy to a maximum contraction and a resulting impact of all matter in which all that exists was motionless and there was only potential energy before an explosion of matter and a resuming kinetic energy the argument of an original mover still cannot poke a hole in the scientific theory on this subject. A more compelling argument is how the matter came into existence since it is theoretically impossible for it to have always existed or to have "naturally" came into existence. What do you think would be a strong argument against this idea?
Here is my personal interpretation on the debate between Reformed Epistemologists and Evidentialists. There are many arguments for and against God. Although I appreciate my experience with them an argument more basic may be of greater value. I have selected an argument that makes augments of a more specific nature irrelevant because it concerns the foundation of the more common augments. I would like to discuss the rationality of belief in God. "Reformed Epistemologists" attempt to define faith as "properly basic" in order to prove to non believers that belief in God is rational. Rationalist, Evidentionalists and Foundationalist believe faith is irrational because it doesn't fit their criteria to be classified as a "properly basic" belief. These non believers do admit that their definition for a rational belief is flawed but the 2 sides cannot agree on sound criteria.
Alvin Plantinga wrote in his book, "Is Belief in God Properly Basic?", 1981., that "rationality is the absence of dysfunction, disorder, impairment, pathology with respect to rational faculties". He sites a good point in the error of an opponent to his ideas saying, "...major weakness in his argument is that he believes we must have some evidence ("testability") in order to be rational in believing something". I would love to cite the criteria for a "properly basic" belief but so far it has been impossible to define in a way that shows that believe in others is rational and belief in the tooth fairy is irrational. Therefore since the criteria cannot allow what we know to be true and cannot disallow what we know to not be true then this commonly cited argument is of course fundamentally flawed. Belief in God cannot be defined as irrational.
I say arguing theory such as the moral argument, cosmological argument, design argument, conceptual argument, etc.... cannot place science versus God on a score board dictating who is more right or more wrong. Getting down to the root of the issue is where its at! We do not need to prove that one history of existence is correct to allow or disallow belief in God.
Having shown that faith cannot be classified as irrational and that augments for or against God are futile, a whole new type of learning of God is called for.
This is my argument for the existence of God based on my belief that matter cant have always existed and could not have naturally came into existence from nothing. God exists and this is evident by the existence of matter. Our consciousness can begin from nothing as matter takes a form and the function of consciousness follows the form that supports it. An egg is fertilized and a consciousness soon follows the form. But matter cannot come into existence from nothing. Even if it were of something we know nothing of and could not be related to matter in anyway in which we could explain it, it still existed as whatever it was before it became matter. So since what we know to exist could not have ever not existed, (from a scientific perspective), and it could not have existed forever, in theory it would have to have been brought into existence. And to be brought into existence would be supernatural. This allows for the existence of God.
Science can explain evolution but I see no valid theory for the creation of life. Physical and chemical reactions began to occur several billion years ago by chance. All that exists today began as unrelated atoms transferring energy randomly. By chance atoms in close proximity to one another survived natural selection because they were advantaged due to the occurrences around them. These processes evolved by exploiting resources. This is evolution. Life can evolve. Life can create new life but I do not believe that life can appear on its own naturally because the building blocks cannot have existed forever,,, forever is theoretically impossible and the atoms that comprise the building blocks of life could not come into existence naturally. There would have to be a supernatural creator. This allows for the existence of God.
I've come to the conclusion that belief in God is not afforded by the inability of science to explain all. If one needs to find the limits of science or needs to find flaws in scientific theory to allow belief in God then they will be agnostic forever because debate along those lines is continuous. Belief in God could be allowed by the realization that one belief system does not have to fail for the other to win. All can be true and the difference is only in the ways in which things are described. For example science explains that man evolved from a single celled organism and this occurred because God made it happen.
This is the focus of my current efforts. How does faith come into existence for someone? Faith is not knowledge or disposition. People who grow up as atheists can develop faith. The faithful can lose faith. No amount of education can give or take away faith. faith is not a product of a certain environment or any other type of experience. This is evident by the demographics of the faithful and non faithful. The rich, poor, happy, unhappy, disturbed, sane, sick, healthy, doomed, thriving, good, bad, old, young, educated, ignorant, etc. do and do not have faith. Some make it their life's work to discover faith and some effortlessly have faith for as far back as they can remember and these two types of people can grow up in identical house holds. Faith comes from within and how this happens must be impossible to understand. I think the only person who can answer this is someone who has honestly been a non believer and then a believer.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,242
3,050
Kenmore, WA
✟294,168.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I realized what a insane, depraved world I was living and that Christianity stood for something different. I got involved with the church and then one day God took hold of me and said "this one is Mine". That is how I came to believe. Faith comes from God, there's no magic formula you can use to create it.
You are quite correct in supposing that knowledge does not produce faith. Jesus said that nobody can inherit the kingdom of God unless they become as a little child. That is how you receive faith, as a little child.
You say that you have children, so you should be able to relate to what I'm saying. In this dangerous world with all the things that can hurt them, and them being so helpless, it would appear that children have a lot more to worry about than us adults. Yet they worry far less than us. It isn't because they are unaware that the world is dangerous, indeed they are often frightened by things, such as loud noises or darkness, that wouldn't bother us at all. It is because they have faith that their parents love them and will ensure their safety. There is no complex rationale for their believing this, they just know.
So it is with God. Even if you have doubts in your mind, if you can just for a moment believe in God enough to earnestly call out to Him, He will show you just how real He is. If you can believe, God will help your unbelief.
 
Upvote 0

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,732
1,399
64
Michigan
✟250,024.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
...(1) I feel that I am an atheist because the supernatural seems irrational....

(A) I tried to feel/understand faith threw knowledge but knowledge does not seem to create faith.

(B) I tried to feel/understand faith threw theory but theory for me instructs the mind and has no influence over what I feel to be true.

...What for you clicked? What changed? How did you develop faith?
:confused: :groupray: :)
(1)Belief in the existance of the supernatural is irrational only if it's been demonstrated that there is no God. But you can't demonstrate that unless you can prove that all causes are observable - and that's not provable. So it can't be necessarily irratrional to believe that the supernatural can exist.

(A)That's because faith isn't about merely what you know. Faith is a decision to adhere to another who is known - it's an act of the will by which you bind yourself to someone else.

(B)That's because faith isn't about what you feel. Do you always feel about your wife the same way you felt during the flush of new love? Or do you sometimes really not like her at all, you've gotten into an argument about something and you're really mad... but you've made an act of the will to stick with this woman and conform your lives together, and so you work it out. That's faith.

It began to click for me when I realised that if God is a person, it would be unreasonable to expect his existance to be proven by means of scientific evidence - the scientific method is applicable where one can perform repeatable experiments, and people are not repeatable. The existance of people is demonstrated by the evidence of history, so of God wanated us to know of his existance he'd have had to act in space and time in order to leave historical evidence of his presence. So I took a good look at the historical evidence for the truth claims of Christianity, and ended up deciding that the most rational conclusion was that God really does exist and that he took on human form in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

At that point, I had to decide whether or not to adhere to him. That's really when I went from being a "non-believer" to being a "believer" - not when I had the intellectual knowledge that he exists, but when I decided to allow my life to be conformed to his.
 
Upvote 0

phoenixgw

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2006
525
44
Sojourner
✟940.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You say you tried to know God. Which God? How do you know which God is the right God? You have a sense of eternity in your heart, yet there is an empty space where something should be.

You seem to sense there is a presence out there, but it does not speak to you in words, but through his creation and his people. His people have a sense of inner peace that does not depend on circumstance. They live in the moment, not for the moment.

No doubt you went to church and read about this guy Jesus, how he died and somehow by turning from your less than perfect life and asking for forgiveness will give you this pardon--a new lease on life that will awaken you to a life with the living God you didn't know existed, but could not live without.

Basically faith is trust. You place trust in your perceptions, your judgments, certain people, worldly things like jobs and equity and financial security--but it is not complete trust.

Think of the strategies you use for the relationships in your life as keys on a keyring. When one of your keys doesn't fit the relationship, you test God and say, "Jesus, I am having trouble with... Can you direct my path to do the right thing? Thank you. I'll leave this with you." And do just that, fuggetaboutit.

You may find the solution you were looking for or something completely unexpected. When another key doesn't fit do the same again. Start reading the book of John. Jesus says, "ask for anything in my name and I will do it." He says it at least 4 times. You will become more aware of how your "keys" fit your relationships and will be more willing (and trusting) to turn over your keys to God.

You might even want to invite Jesus to ride shotgun when you drive your car. As time goes on, you may realize something. Something still doesn't feel right. There are one or two keys you refuse to give to Jesus for whatever reason. Maybe it's a vice, a grudge, some habit you can't and don't want to quit. You'll reflect on the success you've had giving Jesus the other keys and will feel guilty and abandoned.

Then perhaps you will realize that you are on a dead end road and the keys that gave you pleasure, power and control don't work anymore--you're screwed. As a broken man, you'll look skyward hold your keyring high and say to Jesus, take the whole ring, already!! I can't do it anymore! It will be at that moment when Jesus the friend becomes Jesus, your Lord, and holder of your keyring. You will move over and let Jesus do the driving. The Holy Spirit will be your instructor.

24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? (Matthew 16:24-27)

I pray that the light of Christ will shine on you so that you may turn to him and be healed.
 
Upvote 0

jimtem

Junior Member
Apr 23, 2008
102
6
midwest
✟22,765.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Thanks Chilehed I really appreciate it. This is a great help. I will read this several times in the next few weeks and then analyze it thoroughly after this semester ends. I think your theories are interesting. If you saw,,, I have written several theories that support both sides. I gave up on theories because they are no better than knowledge and like you expressed ,faith is not a part of that understanding. I do believe for many, theory is a natural progression to an answer when a person is searching for faith. It was for me. But I realized after reading hundreds of theories from both sides of the discussion that there is no ultimate theory that will disprove all theories beneath it. There are flawed and flawless theories for both sides of the discussion. A believer or non-believer uses a theory to show why their believe is the truth. They may feel that the theory assisted them along the way to discover their truth or the truth but all it really does is comfort them while they realize for themselves what they already believe. I don't know what I believe but I do know that the arguments that a side uses to explain why their truth is the truth is not influential.

Thank you for the testimonial. What you thought and felt upon realization is an inspiration. It means a lot to me.
 
Upvote 0

deana1003

Angel of God
Mar 9, 2008
423
78
46
Visit site
✟15,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well Jim, I can't give you a non-believers point of view, but My husban who I love very much was a different person before we meet. He grew up in a abusive home, his parents drank a lot. He hated his father, and anyone who took the father figure roll (GOD). He hated the world that he lived in. to him God wasn't there or didn't care, he partied all the time, stayed drunk and did drugs. He played the rock in roll life, even married a well lets say Exotic dancer to be nice. One day he figured out his plane for life wasn't working, He didn't do it at church, he was alone. He fell to his knees and asked Jesus to come into his life and save him. And 6 months later we meet. We have two wonderful girls, we are very active in church, He plays guitar for the lord know, and has even written songs. I am very greatful for my family, and for God bringing us together as a christian family. That other person that my husband tells me about, is defently not the person I'm married to. He did a complete 360 in his way of thinking, and even forgave his father for what he did. I hope this helps you a little. I hope that you find what you are looking for.

God Bless Deana
 
Upvote 0