Nobels 2018

[jayem]

All scientists are creation scientists whether they know it or not..... Only the study of a universe of laws by a lawgiver, not random chance, leads to science....

But I'll tell you all what. Blow something up into random disorder and let me know when it makes order..... Do that and we'll discuss that random processes bring about precise order.... Until then it's just all wishful thinking on your part.

Disorder does become ordered under the right cicumstances. Atmospheric water vapor passing through chilled air can become snowflakes--perfectly symmetrical, intricately patterned crystals. Carbon atoms under heat and pressure become diamonds. And a simple mixture of water, methane, hydrogen gas, and ammonia, heated and pulsed with electrical sparks became amino acids, the components of proteins. (The Stanley Miller experiment.) In an open system, entropy can be reversed--disorder becomes order--by naturally occurring processes. It just requires an input of energy. Which on our planet, comes from the sun. Of course, over the long term (several billion years) the sun will burn out. And the entropy of our solar system will eventually increase.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Disorder does become ordered under the right cicumstances. Atmospheric water vapor passing through chilled air can become snowflakes--perfectly symmetrical, intricately patterned crystals.

That melt..... and are not alive....

Carbon atoms under heat and pressure become diamonds.

Useless for life....

And a simple mixture of water, methane, hydrogen gas, and ammonia, heated and pulsed with electrical sparks became amino acids, the components of proteins. (The Stanley Miller experiment.)

Which were diverted into a trap system to keep the very water that made the vapor used to create them from destroying them. Then all production stopped and a lifeless sludge was the result.....

http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/content.cfm?id=3161

"Firstly, consider the gaseous mixture. This was supposed to replicate the primeval atmosphere on the Earth. You will notice that there is an absence of oxygen and nitrogen which are the main elemental constituents of our present environment. The problem recognised by Miller and his colleagues was that oxygen would destroy any organic material in the experiment and certainly in the period of time they allocated to the early period on the planet."

In an open system, entropy can be reversed--disorder becomes order--by naturally occurring processes. It just requires an input of energy. Which on our planet, comes from the sun. Of course, over the long term (several billion years) the sun will burn out. And the entropy of our solar system will eventually increase.

Well we should live for several billion years then since our body is continually receiving energy from the sun.... How is that working out???

"Basically, this argument is saying,

Raw materials + Energy ⇒ Life molecules.

But this omits an important factor. In any process that leads to complexity there must be an information source. For example, in photosynthesis a complex system involving chlorophyll captures energy from the sun and uses it to build molecules from raw materials. Can you imagine shaking a flask containing the basic materials for the production of life (amino acids, sugars, nucleotides, fatty acids, etc.) and continuing to do so until life appeared? That is essentially what we are requiring in an undirected synthesis of this type. “Shake it more vigorously and for longer” is not an encouraging command!"

But wasn't the Stanley Miller experiment performed in a closed system??????

 

[jayem]

Raw materials + Energy ⇒ Life molecules.

But this omits an important factor. In any process that leads to complexity there must be an information source.

The required information is already there. It's the natural chemical properties of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, sulfur, and the handful of other elements from which biomolecules are composed. And a key missing factor in your equations is time. The Earth has been around 4 billion years. Evidence suggests life appeared only in the last 1+ billion or so. Plenty of time for many, many environmental and geochemical changes to occur that would be conducive to abiogenesis. I think that given enough time, life on our planet was inevitable. Earth had the right conditions for carbon-based life. And it's a virtual certainty that some other planets have the same.

But wasn't the Stanley Miller experiment performed in a closed system??????

I only cited the Miller experiment to refute your claim that order does not naturally result from disorder. His work just demonstrates that complex organic molecules, under conditions that might naturally occur, can be derived from simple, non-biological compounds. Current research does not support the specific conditions on which Miller based his experiment. But there are many intruiging ideas about the early environment and the various natural processes by which life could have appeared. Go to nature.com. Click the advanced search button. Enter "prebiotic origin of life." You'll find links to hundreds of recent papers on how biomolecules and early life forms may have developed. It's true that the exact mechanism isn't know. But that doesn't mean some supernatural intelligent agent did it. (And it's no argument at all that the God of Bible is that particular agent.) You can believe whatever you like. But it's just the old god of the gaps. You can't imagine how the complex phenomenon of life could occur without some purposeful intervention. Humans have always invented supernatural explanations for what wasn't understood. But in the entire history of knowledge, a supernatural cause has never proven valid for anything. So, by simple inductive reasoning, why should I accept a supernatural explanations for all the things we still don't understand?

 

[Strathos]

The Earth has been around 14+ billion years.

No it hasn't.

 

[jayem]

No it hasn't.

Thanks. You are correct. It should be 4+ billion. I was talking with my wife while posting on my phone. I must have hit the 1 inadvertently. But I'll stand by the rest of the post.

 

[dgiharris]

That melt..... and are not alive....

Useless for life....


Which were diverted into a trap system to keep the very water that made the vapor used to create them from destroying them. Then all production stopped and a lifeless sludge was the result.....

http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/content.cfm?id=3161

"Firstly, consider the gaseous mixture. This was supposed to replicate the primeval atmosphere on the Earth. You will notice that there is an absence of oxygen and nitrogen which are the main elemental constituents of our present environment. The problem recognised by Miller and his colleagues was that oxygen would destroy any organic material in the experiment and certainly in the period of time they allocated to the early period on the planet."




Well we should live for several billion years then since our body is continually receiving energy from the sun.... How is that working out???

"Basically, this argument is saying,

Raw materials + Energy ⇒ Life molecules.

But this omits an important factor. In any process that leads to complexity there must be an information source. For example, in photosynthesis a complex system involving chlorophyll captures energy from the sun and uses it to build molecules from raw materials. Can you imagine shaking a flask containing the basic materials for the production of life (amino acids, sugars, nucleotides, fatty acids, etc.) and continuing to do so until life appeared? That is essentially what we are requiring in an undirected synthesis of this type. “Shake it more vigorously and for longer” is not an encouraging command!"

But wasn't the Stanley Miller experiment performed in a closed system??????

I see what is going on...

Make a claim, issue a challenge, THEN move the goal posts...

also, some of your premises and logical conclusions are ridiculous. Why should we live for billions of years to prove that order can come from chaos? How in your mind does that equate to a prerequisite???

 

[theQuincunx5]

Medicine: James Allison and Tasuku Honjo for their work on immunotherapy that has revolutionized how cancer is treated.

Physics: Half of the prize wen to Arthur Ashkin (96), who managed to live long enough to remain eligible! He was honored for his development of optical tweezers at Bell Labs in 1970.

Donna Strickland and Gérard Mourou split the other half of the prize for their work in the 1980s at the University of Rochester to develop chirped pulse amplification (CPA) for lasers, which enabled lasers pulses to be amplified to higher power.

Chemistry: Half the prize went to Frances Arnold for using Darwinian mechanisms to design enzymes. The other half was split between George Smith and Gregory Winter for the 'phage display of peptides and antibodies'.

In a sad coincidence, Physics Laureate Leon Lederman passed away the same day the Chemistry Prize was announced. He led teams that made some key discoveries in particle physics (the muon neutrino and the bottom quark) that helped flesh out what is now known as the Standard Model. He's probably best known to a wider audience for coining the phrase "The God Particle" to refer to the Higgs boson, causing anger and confusion ever since.

And for completeness....

Peace: Denis Mukwege and Nadia Murad for their efforts to end the use of sexual violence as a weapon of war and armed conflict.

(There is no Literature Prize this year, due to an unpleasant scandal. And the Economics Prize isn't a real Prize anyway.)

I see that Dr. Dino was YET AGAIN cheated out of his Nobel in ALL SCIENCE for revealing the lie of evolution.

That's gotta be hard go through year after year. Thankfully he has is prison buddies.

 

[theQuincunx5]

But I'll tell you all what. Blow something up into random disorder and let me know when it makes order.....

Are you serious? I do that EVERYDAY when I refill the ice tray! LOL.

Study chemistry. It's fun.

 

[morse86]

God gifts us scientists to make our lives easier.

Huh? Where does it say this in the bible?

Scientist is not a special class of people. Everyone is a scientist, to be human is to be a scientist. Do you not question, think, examine, observe etc??

We should be wary of false science, one that cannot be observed or replicated.

 

[theQuincunx5]

Scientist is not a special class of people. Everyone is a scientist, to be human is to be a scientist. Do you not question, think, examine, observe etc??

True dat.

We should be wary of false science, one that cannot be observed or replicated.

These phrases are usually reserved for climate skeptics or creationists since it relies on an oversimplified view of how science works. Yes observation and replication are critical parameters, but remember, geologists can't "replicate" an entire planet. Replication in cases like that means replications of either observations and correlates or replication in the lab of certain effects to prove out the physical law.

I mean through solid observation and replication of findings we've got a VERY solid understanding of current global climate change yet many who don't understand science think there's some overarching controversy. And certainly through repeated observation of fossils throughout the world and replicable lab work characterizing how genetics works have led us to a deeper understanding of the Theory of Evolution (so strong, in fact, that it's now considered a "Theory" in the scientific use of that term).

 

[Strathos]

True dat.



These phrases are usually reserved for climate skeptics or creationists since it relies on an oversimplified view of how science works. Yes observation and replication are critical parameters, but remember, geologists can't "replicate" an entire planet. Replication in cases like that means replications of either observations and correlates or replication in the lab of certain effects to prove out the physical law.

I mean through solid observation and replication of findings we've got a VERY solid understanding of current global climate change yet many who don't understand science think there's some overarching controversy. And certainly through repeated observation of fossils throughout the world and replicable lab work characterizing how genetics works have led us to a deeper understanding of the Theory of Evolution (so strong, in fact, that it's now considered a "Theory" in the scientific use of that term).

He's a flat earther FYI, so don't expect any arguments to get through to him at all.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

But wasn't the Stanley Miller experiment performed in a closed system??????

Not in terms of energy. External energy was input (and radiated back out).

 

[AV1611VET]

Huh? Where does it say this in the bible?

One of the spiritual gifts is the gift of knowledge.

And while one needs to be saved to get a spiritual gift, I believe God can embue unbelievers with this special ability as well.

They are usually referred to as "gifted" ... are they not?

Scientist is not a special class of people. Everyone is a scientist, to be human is to be a scientist. Do you not question, think, examine, observe etc?

Not like they do.

We should be wary of false science, one that cannot be observed or replicated.

I suppose so.

 

[Tanj]

Medicine: James Allison and Tasuku Honjo for their work on immunotherapy that has revolutionized how cancer is treated.

Excellent stuff. Biggest paradigm shift in the field for decades.

The other half was split between George Smith and Gregory Winter for the 'phage display of peptides and antibodies'.

Also excellent, had some good successes with it as well. The ability to tie protein to gene in an almost background free environment is wicked clever.