Noah's flood

[SkyWriting]

bear in mind that if you use the septuagint numbers the flood will be much further back in time.[/IMG]

Unless instructed to add a bunch of numbers together to create a timeline for a historical event, I'd advise against it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and I have some opinions to put in. These were questions I was unable to find answers to so that's basically why I joined the site; to get answers.
You all seem to contain loud opinions and seem educated on the topic of the flood so here it goes...
1) How was Noah able to gather all the animals?
2) How did he feed them, (they were in the arc for a very long time and the elephants alone would need so much food)?
3) Did he and his sons shovel all the feces off the arc?
4) How did some of the animals not freeze? They were at extremely high altitudes, it's very cold up there.
5) Oxygen? High altitudes= less air
6) Some animals need meat, so did he bring extra animals to feed the lions/tigers/ etc? Two lions need a lot of meat!
7) Increasing water levels that drastically throws off the salt concentration. A lot of fish would also die. Did Noah bring two of every fish with him as well?
8) If god used "magic" to help Noah with these difficulties, how come he didn't kill the humans with magic, then reproduce everything again?

That's all I really have for this topic.. please please please excuse my ignorance, I'm not trying to be rude, I 100% believe that the flood did happen Im simply looking for some guidance
all my love, and may god bless !

Interesting questions. Most can be answered "God". But there is a "Scientific" explanation as well. Except for
#1. "God" is the best explanation for gathering 2 or so of each Kind of animal.
So, lets assume a large number of animals were gathered and put into complete darkness where it was warm and cozy. All bodies of water are temperate.
HowStuffWorks "How Hibernation Works" So that covers
#2-6.
#7. We have no information on any "sea" creatures.
#8. God usually uses real events to symbolize spiritual truths.
Noah's Ark is one example of "being saved".

 

[boldlion]

Yes, I believe that it was a global flood too !

 

[bsssg]

If we look at Noah's Flood event as a whole and not look into the finer aspects , its a reminder about the holy God's intolerance towards sin. It shows the other side of a merciful God.

 

[Faith.Man]

Dr. David W. Snoke is a physics professor at the University of Pittsburgh in the Department of Physics and Astronomy. In 2006 he was elected a Fellow of the American Physical Society " or his pioneering work on the experimental and theoretical understanding of dynamical optical processes in semiconductor systems." In 2004 he co-wrote a controversial paper with prominent intelligent design proponent Michael Behe.

Dr. Snoke wrote the book "A Biblical Case for an Old Earth". In his book as a side issue to the main purpose of the book as the title indicates, Dr. Snoke wrote about Noah's Flood being a large local flood versus the common misinterpretation of scripture being a global flood. While my creationist views are somewhat different (Gap Theory), I do agree with his understanding of Noah's Flood. I discussed my views in detail previously on another thread that I reference below.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7426346/

 

[iambeeman]

Pardon me for asking but if the flood of Noah was only a local event then doesn't that make God a liar? In Gen 8:21 God promises not to do it again, and I can think of a few major floods in past few years.

 

[zeke37]

20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

i think the point is that God knows us as a race. if God did more floods, even localized ones, every time man got this bad,
then He'd have to wipe us ALL out completely.

I actually think this is a point in favor of a local flood...local to the adamic valley.

 

[zeke37]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and I have some opinions to put in. These were questions I was unable to find answers to so that's basically why I joined the site; to get answers.
You all seem to contain loud opinions and seem educated on the topic of the flood so here it goes...
1) How was Noah able to gather all the animals?

God made it happen.

2) How did he feed them, (they were in the arc for a very long time and the elephants alone would need so much food)?

possible hybernation of some and lots of veggies.
plus, IMO no elephants were on board.
I think the story is local and local animals were kept from extinction.

3) Did he and his sons shovel all the feces off the arc?

possibly

4) How did some of the animals not freeze? They were at extremely high altitudes, it's very cold up there.

May through Sept. it was summer time most of the trip.

5) Oxygen? High altitudes= less air

my speculation...
It would no longer be higher altitudes with the water displacing the volume of space,
thus the air would be breathable.

6) Some animals need meat, so did he bring extra animals to feed the lions/tigers/ etc? Two lions need a lot of meat!

could be. maybe God cause them to all sleep most of the trip.

7) Increasing water levels that drastically throws off the salt concentration. A lot of fish would also die. Did Noah bring two of every fish with him as well?

prob not, as water was not the problem at all....lol.

8) If god used "magic" to help Noah with these difficulties, how come he didn't kill the humans with magic, then reproduce everything again?

magic? how about Holy Spirit.
and He sent the flood...God can do things any way He wants to,
and this was evidently the right way to do it at that time.

remember the reason for the flood....not all can see it.

the adamic seed line, through which the promised seed of Gen3:15 (Jesus)would come,
had become polluted by the fallen angels with their giant offspring mentioned in Gen6/Joel.

but Noah was still pure...perfect in his generations.
it took him a lot longer than his ancestors to find a wife, because he was waiting for a pure woman.
pure adamic, and not tainted with fallen angel genetics...
because by his time the adamic population was heavily infested with the half breeds and those that they "mixed" with.

Noah's purity is one reason why he was chosen.

and the populations unpurity was the reason for the flood..to wipe them out.

 

[miamited]

Hey everybody,

While I totally disagree with granpa let me direct your attention back to post #10. When you read the meaning of the names as a sentence you see that the names of the first 10 generations from Adam spell out the gospel. It's just another example of how awesomely wise our God and Creator is. May He be forever and ever praised. Amen!

God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted

 

[good brother]

I think the story is local and local animals were kept from extinction.

While I agree with you on some of the other points you make in your post, I do take issue to this point. You say that God BROUGHT the animals to Noah. I agree with that. However I have an issue with a local flood. If it was a local flood concerning local animals and a local man (Noah), why wouldn't God just tell him to move? He gave him a 120 year warning. And as far as the animals go, do you realize the scope of the migrations that that occur every single year by thousands of types of animals throughout the world? Canadian geese travel hundreds of miles. Wildabeasts make awesome journeys to follow the rains and grass. We hear amazing stories of dogs and cats travelling across thousands of miles to get back to their owners, and the beautiful but fraile Monarch butterfly treks thousands of miles from North America to South America for the winters.

Why would God waste Noah's time building an ark for the protection of the kinds of animals when animals migrate their whole lives? Why wouldn't God have told Noah to pack up his family and go and cause the animals to go away from the "local" flood area?

Too many more questions arise that don't make sense when we reduce it to a local flood.

In Christ, GB

 

[iambeeman]

20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

i think the point is that God knows us as a race. if God did more floods, even localized ones, every time man got this bad,
then He'd have to wipe us ALL out completely.

I actually think this is a point in favor of a local flood...local to the adamic valley.

So...... God won't destroy by flood if we're evil but he will destroy by flood?

Might I draw your attention to "neither will I again smite any more every think living, as I have done." the reality is if the flood of Noah was only a local flood then this has a promise to not destroy by a local flood again and we all know it's happened since then, so God lied. But if The flood was global he has kept his promise.

 

[Faith.Man]

Pardon me for asking but if the flood of Noah was only a local event then doesn't that make God a liar? In Gen 8:21 God promises not to do it again, and I can think of a few major floods in past few years.

Sorry, this is a Christian Only Thread.

 

[good brother]

Sorry, this is a Christian Only Thread.

Just because he is "Other Church" doesn't make his question any less valid or worthy of an answer. He asks a very valid and biblical question.

In Christ, GB

 

[iambeeman]

Ummmm I am a Christian, Gave my life to the lord as a kid during a kid ministry daycamp at the church a 1/2 mile up the road. The reason I listed "other" is that I'm not really an official member on a church. I've attended Evangelical Mennonite Conference, Mennonite Brethren, Baptist, Missionary Alliance, Ukrainian Orthodox, United Church, Roman Catholic, and Salvation Army churches at least once. None of which makes me anymore of a christian but I've done it to try and figure out which body of believers I found to be the best fit for my wife and I.

Now we've cleared that bit of smoke.

Edit- We are now attending a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in the nearest town, great fellowship, and great pastor.

 

[granpa]

it was local but it was a particularly large tsunami.

 

[zeke37]

So...... God won't destroy by flood if we're evil but he will destroy by flood?

sorry, i don't understand your objection.

Might I draw your attention to "neither will I again smite any more every think living, as I have done."

every living thing may just mean every living thing in the area. plus we know that God saved some animals, 4 of each unclean, and 14 of each clean.

so not every living thing perrished.

the first bird went out and did not return...that bird found a home elsewhere than the arc. land.
the second bird came back with a twig, which is showing that every living thing was NOT destroyed.

the reality is if the flood of Noah was only a local flood then this has a promise to not destroy by a local flood again and we all know it's happened since then, so God lied.

no...no local flood has come that has wiped out everything in it's area..
not in New Orleans or India, as the most recent floods..

God did not lie.

But if The flood was global he has kept his promise.

listen, the longer your a Christian, the more you will respect others "opinions".
you may decide to study them to either disprove or confirm their hypothesis.
it is not all cut and dry. there are MANY translational errors in the english bibles.
Ones "opinion" about scripture may change over the years...
I used to believe the flood was not literal history, but metaphore.
then I believed it was history and literally world wide...
now I believe it to be local.

it is not wise to say things like,
'if you don't agree with my opinion, then God must have lied.'

 

[Faith.Man]

Just because he is "Other Church" doesn't make his question any less valid or worthy of an answer. He asks a very valid and biblical question.

In Christ, GB

Because you ask his question, I will provide as complete an answer as I can in the limited space provided.

Genesis 8:21 - The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. [NASB]

A key to understanding this biblical passage is found in the next verse, Genesis 8:22.

Genesis 8:22 - "While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease." [NASB]

So what does this mean? God says, "I will not do what I have done, but instead, there will be balance in nature." "Recall that the relationship between the sea and the land is another essential "balance" in Scripture. Moreover, it was highly important to the Israelites that the "boundaries of the sea" were set by God as part of the balance of nature (Job 38:8-11; Ps. 104:6-9; Jer. 5:22) -- that dangerous forces like the sea and night could go only so far; and no farther. The essence of God's promise in Genesis 8:21 is that the balance of nature would not be overturned again. The flood was big enough to unbalance all of nature: the sea did not stay within its confines, and also, apparently, the seasons were altered, leading to a forty-day rain, among other things. Therefore, while one need not posit an immersion of Mount Everest, the flood in some very real way upset the natural balance of the entire earth and was a curse on all of life due to humanity's sin." [A Biblical Case for an Old Earth by Dr. David Snoke]

Dr. Snoke devotes an entire chapter explaining the Scriptural text that I will not reprint here. I highly recommend his book even though I do not agree with his origins view. For the origins view most like my own, I would recommend In the Beginnings by Dr. Steven E. Dill.

One other thing immediately jumps out at me from Genesis 8:21. A literal interpretation of this passage says every living thing was destroyed. We know this isn't true, because Noah's family and all the animals in the ark were saved. So we must not fully understand how the Israelites of that time expressed themselves. Frequently in Holy Scripture, exaggeration is used to express the magnitude of the event. This does not mean Holy Scripture is in error, but you need to understand how they expressed themselves.

 

[zeke37]

Hey everybody,

While I totally disagree with granpa let me direct your attention back to post #10. When you read the meaning of the names as a sentence you see that the names of the first 10 generations from Adam spell out the gospel. It's just another example of how awesomely wise our God and Creator is. May He be forever and ever praised. Amen!

God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted

amazing truth!

 

[Faith.Man]

Hey everybody,

While I totally disagree with granpa let me direct your attention back to post #10. When you read the meaning of the names as a sentence you see that the names of the first 10 generations from Adam spell out the gospel. It's just another example of how awesomely wise our God and Creator is. May He be forever and ever praised. Amen!

God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted

True, I've noticed that before.

 

[zeke37]

While I agree with you on some of the other points you make in your post, I do take issue to this point. You say that God BROUGHT the animals to Noah. I agree with that. However I have an issue with a local flood. If it was a local flood concerning local animals and a local man (Noah), why wouldn't God just tell him to move? He gave him a 120 year warning.

Good question.
He was preserving the adamic animals, and not abandoning the land.
He was making a promise to us, and all mankind through that event.
however, we could ask the same thing about almost every biblical event. Why did God do it (or allow it to happen) that way?????

And as far as the animals go, do you realize the scope of the migrations that that occur every single year by thousands of types of animals throughout the world? Canadian geese travel hundreds of miles. Wildabeasts make awesome journeys to follow the rains and grass. We hear amazing stories of dogs and cats travelling across thousands of miles to get back to their owners, and the beautiful but fraile Monarch butterfly treks thousands of miles from North America to South America for the winters.

Why would God waste Noah's time building an ark for the protection of the kinds of animals when animals migrate their whole lives? Why wouldn't God have told Noah to pack up his family and go and cause the animals to go away from the "local" flood area?

His ways are above our ways. I guess He wanted to prove a point.
we don't always understand His ways.

Too many more questions arise that don't make sense when we reduce it to a local flood.

In Christ, GB

i think more are raised if we assume it is a world wide flood....
the obvious existance of the various races to begin with.