Noah's Flood

[pyro214]

All of the important meaning is there whether the story is literal or not:

God is very, very powerful.
People can be very, very, bad.
Some people do wish to follow God, and it is through them that God works his purposes.
God wishes to wash away sin (looks forward to baptism).
God makes and keeps his promises (the rainbow)
etc, etc.

What you can't get from it is stuff that God has no need to teach us because there is other ways for us to learn it, eg modernist-history, usable instructions for building barges, zoology, etc

guess your right, this is finally making some sense :S
I appreciate the help

 

[ebia]

No worries - I'm always happy to try and explain my point of view to anyone interested in understanding it.

 

[rambot]

Sorry, but having it local doesn't fly if you want it to wipe out every human and animal not on the ark.

Even quotes like this are subject to interpretation. And when one looks at the original Hebrew text, it is FAR less clear.

I LOOOOOVE reading this website; in truth, it was the first website that I read which actually took a somewhat intellectually honest look at the local flood through the scope of biblical hermenutics (sp?)

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html
​

 

[johannes]

kk, good to know and thanks for verses.

Also this whole idea of the "entire" world could have quiet a impact for people who like to think scintificly about it. Lets take things from the greatest end of the possible spectrum, the world known today, and bring it to the oppositite side.

For example, lets be unrealistic and pretend that the entire world was only known for 10 miles in each direction from were people lived at the time. The number of animals, landroms, etc... would then be very decreased.

Now lets consider somthing realistic, is it possible to have a situation somwhere between the world known then and the world known today where:
-the terrain was not high.
-and amount of animals is suitable for the size of the ark.
-geogical evidence would only need to support the given area.
-polar caps would not of been melted
-due to smaller amount of animals, a sufficient amount of food could of been provided.
-the amount of water in the world would be sufficient for the given area.

I think its possible, although were still left with the problem of how such a massive boat was made.

Even though i give this possibility it seems unlikley. The point of the flood was to kill 99% of humanity at the time (i think). So the area itself would have to be quiet large? Or maby there wernt that many people at the time.... who knows :S

please read this.
The ark of Noah.

In Gen. 6, we read that men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them.
When it speaks about men or man, it does not mean it is a human being as you perhaps might think.
Man = the meaning of; to show blood, therefore any creature with blood is called man; further man has the meaning of spirit as you know.
Man does not mean “human”.
As we know the blood symbolize the soul and the soul is symbolized by the senses or the spirits a creature have.
Further we have learned that these senses/spirits are symbolized by the garden in Eden.
Further, we also know that the garden symbolizes YOUR face and God has put man in this garden.



Any land creature could be called man to describe his face, his senses or his spirits.
Face = the meaning of; nose or nostril or snout or forehead (the brain) and in some cases it means the wrath.


If we then read that men multiplied, it can mean (in this case) that animal multiplied.
If we read, daughters and Sons of God, we understand daughters as the bodies that were created on earth the mother, in fact all bodies whether that of human or animal are called; daughters of earth.
Whether you like it or not, the human body is also animal.
The Sons of God would be the spirits in heaven.
BUT; “all” the current spiritual creatures in heaven were created on earth, by the living creatures who gave birth to them.



We read that these spirits “intermixed” for it says; they (the spiritual Sons) took them wives of all, WHICH THEY CHOSE.
This intermixing, led to the creation of Giants like the dinosaur and other huge animal bodies. These creatures were vicious creatures, as we know.
When God the Almighty spirit saw this wickedness he said; my spirit shall not always strive with “man”.
Strive = the meaning of; to rule, minister judgment.
You can understand the huge spirits/breath of these creatures.



Therefore, God says; “man” (the creatures with blood) won’t rule anymore and the Lord said; I will destroy “man” and beast and creeping thing and the fowls of the air. Beast is the body and man is the spirit.
Fowls are the symbol of angels, Sons of God, namely different spiritual creatures.
Air = the meaning of; the sky – that part which the clouds move in, and even to the celestial bodies that revolve, namely planets or stars.
Life on earth was at that stage creatures of a low intelligence, their “heaven” were the region of; where the clouds move in.
I say; the first creatures were restricted to the heaven of where the clouds move in.


The celestial bodies mentioned are the celestial bodies in our solar system, but in particular earth, the moon and Mars, which did affect the so-called flood of Noah.
There are so many words and meanings in Gen. 6, 7 and 8 I will just explain the hypothesis, as my mind can understand it, for I am not a scientist. I believe that we miss vast parts of the scriptures that can possibly tell us much more about this catastrophe that has happened in our solar system.


The flood mentioned in Genesis is not at all what has been told to us in church all these years.
In the first place it is “a flood of sin”. It is a sin’s flood not “a sun” flood. It is the result of sin.
Any one of the celestial bodies in space is not just “stupid”, bare objects or worthless objects; our solar system is a balanced, intelligently worked out system.
If for instance if you take the moon away, suddenly grab it out of its orbit, the whole of our solar system will react “violently”, planets and stars will scatter around, seeking to find balance again in some cases collide with each other, for gravity and repulsion balance the entire solar system and not only our solar system but the entire universe. At this moment the entire universe is still expanding. Scientists thought that at some stage “gravity” will “pull” everything back to the point of the original Big Bang; in the first place, this cannot happen because “there is no gravity left at the point of explosion to pull everything back”. Secondly, the expansion goes faster and faster as if something else’s gravity is “pulling” everything to a new place of rest, this being the result of certain stars that still explodes and effects the position of all celestial beings. The explotion works like an extrorsed balloon and all scientists calculations are wrong.


Furthermore, all these celestial bodies are in fact living creatures, living angels, placed in its exact position to keep the system alive.
This “grabbing away” or pushing out of its rotating orbit is exactly the catastrophe that happened in our solar system, which ended up that one third of stars/planets “darkened” (died) Rev 8:12.


Two of these planets that died is the moon and mars and as we know also earth is slowly dying.
We surely have a lack of information, but I will do my best to describe this catastrophe to you with the little information available to me.


Isai. 40:12 --- the dust of earth was comprehended in a measure.
The meaning of a measure = a triple – three fold – (in) a triangle.
This tripling = earth, the moon and mars, which were placed in a triangle.



You might now think it is talking about the sun, moon and earth.
No it is not because the sun is not dust of earth and is not orbiting in a triangle.


Further; the ark had three stories, and if each story has the same size, it covers less than one hectare or 10000 square meters, and it is impossible to lodge all the creatures on earth with a supply of food for a year on an area of less than one hectare. Some preachers now try to explain it in all sorts of ways like; it could have held the DNA.
Even they now start to realize that certain things “are impossible” but they don’t have the knowledge to understand it for the bible is a closed book to them according to the bible.


Therefore we deal with a parable and it is therefore senseless to even go and look for such a “ship”.
Furthermore the word Ararat “where this ship was supposed to land” has the meaning of; creation – earth and execration; this then tells a complete different story as the one told to us.
The ark is in fact a symbol of the earth as the ark – the escape.
Ark = the meaning of; to box in and the idea “to start from scratch” – to re-energize/recreate life or to “escape something”.
To box in, is described in genesis one as different firmaments that sealed off the different heavens.

Earth is the only “ark” in our solar system to sustain and resurrect life from a single cell.
In gen.1 we read that God has put in different firmaments. I would prefer to call these firmaments domes and choose to also call the different senses of creature’s, domes in the brain. For instance, Moses opened the fifth dome of human/animal namely the dome of hearing.
This dome of hearing can also be called the fifth trumpet as explained in revelations.

 

[johannes]

I agree with all the above pieces of evidence!

I would add that it needs to be discussed where the water came from, and where it went afterwards, with reference to where the energy came from, and went.

god uses hypothesis to explain certain things, therefore we can perhaps say; somewhere there was a flood and god used this as a symbol to explain something else, but while we dont have the intelligence to understand it we believe the hypothesis and by way of that we call the truth into existance.
we must then say; the real/logical thing that happened was an lava outburst as the meaning of the words explain.
it is just impossible for all that "water to come out of the earth or from heaven and more impossible to vanish in one year". God can do anything, but he doesnt do unrealistic things because we are supposed to understand it; he does it logically and it is not logic the way we understood it before. johan.

 

[mikex]

God can do anything, but he doesnt do unrealistic things because we are supposed to understand it; he does it logically and it is not logic the way we understood it before. johan.

God can only do the logically possible. God did not create logic, but He is bound by it.

 

[Abiel]

It's a story.

 

[B®ent]

It is possible the Flood was regional. However, since the Bible does not explicitly state so, or even hint at the possibility, I am a believer in the global flood.

 

[B®ent]

It's a story.

No, it's not.

We can trace the current world population, taking into account such things as disease, famine, estimated population in the 1st century, etc., to a common ancestor roughly 5 to 7 thousand years ago. If growth of mankind were uninhibited for a hundred and fifty thousand years, as evolutionists claim, not only would there be trillions of people on the earth today; there would also be an estimated hundred billion corpses in the ground. Where, may I ask, are these corpses?

It takes more faith to believe in evolution than in the Bible.

 

[Abiel]

Sorry, I haven't got the energy to believe six impossible things before breakfast.

 

[Skaloop]

We can trace the current world population, taking into account such things as disease, famine, estimated population in the 1st century, etc., to a common ancestor roughly 5 to 7 thousand years ago. If growth of mankind were uninhibited for a hundred and fifty thousand years, as evolutionists claim, not only would there be trillions of people on the earth today; there would also be an estimated hundred billion corpses in the ground. Where, may I ask, are these corpses?

Who says the growth of mankind was uninhibited? It almost certainly was inhibited, by limits on resources. That's the basis of natural selection. Population growth was not always as rapid as it has been in this technological era.

 

[B®ent]

Sorry, I haven't got the energy to believe six impossible things before breakfast.

In other words, you have no rebuttal to offer?

Pn = the population following 'n' generations. N = the number of generations. Divide the period of time by the length of time (in years) per generation, and you have the value of n. X is the number of generations living at the time when Pn is evaluated. (A reasonable estimate of X is 3). C is the average number of children per family.

Here is an article of interest -

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i3/people.asp

 

[B®ent]

Who says the growth of mankind was uninhibited? It almost certainly was inhibited, by limits on resources. That's the basis of natural selection. Population growth was not always as rapid as it has been in this technological era.

I understand, but from my perspective, it requires more faith to believe that than to simply believe what the Bible says.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

In other words, you have no rebuttal to offer?http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i3/people.asp (snip)

Population growth is not exponential in real world conditions, and it hasn't been since humans emerged on this planet. Before the introduction of modern medicine and sanitation, the world population remained virtually constant for thousands of years.

 

[B®ent]

Population growth is not exponential in real world conditions, and it hasn't been since humans emerged on this planet. Before the introduction of modern medicine and sanitation, the world population remained virtually constant for thousands of years.

Where are the bodies? If there were 5 to 10 million people on the earth throughout most of our history, a conservative estimate would place 50 billion bodies in the ground. So, where are they?

 

[Skaloop]

I understand, but from my perspective, it requires more faith to believe that than to simply believe what the Bible says.

Then your perspective is wrong. It takes no faith whatsoever; it stands on the evidence.

 

[Skaloop]

Where are the bodies? If there were 5 to 10 million people on the earth throughout most of our history, a conservative estimate would place 50 billion bodies in the ground. So, where are they?

Not in the ground. Fossilization is rare; the vast majority of bodies would not have been preserved in any way.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Where are the bodies? If there were 5 to 10 million people on the earth throughout most of our history, a conservative estimate would place 50 billion bodies in the ground. So, where are they?

A conservative guess would be "decay".

 

[Abiel]

In other words, you have no rebuttal to offer?

If that's what I wanted to say, that's what I would have said.

A world wide flood didn't happen. It's a story. A story designed to teach.

So where did all the water go?

 

[pyro214]

this argument can be taken 2 ways, before diving into either way to deeply i think it would save more time to figure out if this possible "parable" can even be taken non-literaly.... its a topic in itself so ill open a new thread in a sec, ill edit in the link in a couple mins:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4788413-flood-literal-or-not.html#post31734385