Noah's Ark

[joshua 1 9]

Every story in the Bible is a type of Christ.

Every Jot and every Tittle contains an infinite amount of knowledge and understanding about Christ.

 

[lismore]

Altogether, I feel that the story of the Flood was told in a way to inspire others of God's divine judgement; not to be taken exhaustively literal.

By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgement and destruction of the ungodly. (2 Peter 3:6-7).

Nope, no judgement there.

 

[dad]

Where did Noah build the Ark?

Be specific please.

I say he built it in what is now New Jersey.

Be prepared to defend your position.

My guess is possibly the middle east. I would think that the plates all moved from where they were at that time a lot. So what is NOT near Israel now may have been at the time of the ark. The forests used may have been destroyed or subducted in the subsequent movements, so that we do not need to see forests now there. I would also think Eden was near Jerusalem, as well. The tigris and other rivers may have been connected also before the continental move. I would suspect that the dove brought an olive from the mount of Olives to Noah. So that is my guess and reasoning.

 

[GenemZ]

That's what local floodies like to think.

They'll do anything ... anything ... to make it look like Noah live and worked in the same area as where the Flood started.

Even though God told Adam to move out of the area, even though the Flood was more than 1600 years after the Fall, even though the United States was populated end-to-end (a distance of 3000 miles) in less than 100 years, they will still believe that Noah, a preacher of righteous, hung around the same general area in clear disobedience to God's command.

Nope ... I don't buy it.

I believe Noah lived in the area that is now called "New Jersey."

May I ask? Who did your census taking?

Mankind was only living on one spot of land. It was not until after the flood (Genesis 11) that the Lord forced man to stop living as a herd, and forced them have to scatter over the face of the entire earth.

We need to watch our word usage.

The Bible must be understood as to what words meant at the time of writing! Not how we may use words today.

Up until Genesis 11, what constituted being called the "entire earth" was merely the location of where mankind lived. At one time the "entire earth" was located on a single plain!

"Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the
land of Shinar and settled there." Gen 11:1-2​

There it was! The "whole earth." Living on one plain in the land of Shinar. That was it! That was how the "whole earth" was used in their thinking, not ours today. Today we envision the entire globe when we think in terms of the whole earth....

We are told? The whole earth was destroyed in the flood of Noah.

So, where was man living at the time of the flood?

Where ever it was? That was the "whole earth," needing to be destroyed. For the Lord was out to destroy man who had become evil. God had nothing against the animals found at that time all around the world. But, some animals were living where the earth was to be destroyed by that flood. These animals needed to be saved for repopulating the future ecosystem after that land was destroyed by that flood.

Where all mankind was living? It was called "the whole earth."

Therefore.. since it was mankind that had become evil that was to be destroyed? Only the animal species indigenous to where man was living needed to be saved on the Ark.

For if all animals species from around the world were needing to be saved? Noah would have needed to build a huge fleet, not just one ark.

 

[AV1611VET]

Mankind was only living on one spot of land.

Yes. That "one spot of land" is known in the vernacular as "Pangaea."

Or "Eden," as it is called in the Bible.

One could walk from [what is now] New Jersey to [what is now] Australia and back, and not see a drop of ocean water.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes. That "one spot of land" is known in the vernacular as "Pangaea."

Or "Eden," as it is called in the Bible.

One could walk from [what is now] New Jersey to [what is now] Australia and back, and not see a drop of ocean water.

OK, I should rephrase that...., "Mankind was only living on one spot on the land."

Mankind could not be spread over the entire planet at that time. For if man were all over the planet? Many would have not been able to hear the warnings of Noah's preaching before the flood came. That is another reason why there was no need for the entire planet to be flooded. Only the known world to mankind - where mankind inhabited - needed to be baptized for 40 days and 40 nights.

In several places in the Bible we read of God heaping up high columns of water. The water of Noah's flood God could have contained and spared the rest of the planet. Only in Genesis 1:2 do we find the universal flood which was brought about by the Lord to judge the entire prehistoric creation which had been the domain of Lucifer and angels. That is why Satan wanted to gain the world back by causing the fall of Adam.

It has to make sense.

grace and peace....

 

[AV1611VET]

Mankind could not be spread over the entire planet at that time.

Why not?

If the earth was created in 4004 BC, and the Flood was in 2348 BC, that means that mankind had 1656 years to spread out.

By comparison, the United States went from Boston to Los Angeles (some 3000 miles) in less than 200 years.

For if man were all over the planet? Many would have not been able to hear the warnings of Noah's preaching before the flood came.

Why? Noah preached for 120 years before the Flood came.

 

[Piet Strydom]

OK, I should rephrase that...., "Mankind was only living on one spot on the land."

Mankind could not be spread over the entire planet at that time. For if man were all over the planet? Many would have not been able to hear the warnings of Noah's preaching before the flood came. That is another reason why there was no need for the entire planet to be flooded. Only the known world to mankind - where mankind inhabited - needed to be baptized for 40 days and 40 nights.

In several places in the Bible we read of God heaping up high columns of water. The water of Noah's flood God could have contained and spared the rest of the planet. Only in Genesis 1:2 do we find the universal flood which was brought about by the Lord to judge the entire prehistoric creation which had been the domain of Lucifer and angels. That is why Satan wanted to gain the world back by causing the fall of Adam.

It has to make sense.

grace and peace....

If we look at how God describe the creation and formation of the Earth, He says He made the Earth shape from a colection of solids and water into a sphere turning around its axis.
on the second day the gasses escaped from this collection of mud, and formed the atmosphere.
On the 3rd day the solids collected on one place and seperated from the water and land and sea appeared.

It also say the earth had no rain, but a mist rose from the earth to wet the land.
Now it takes very little immagination to see how the earth looked, or how it would appear to any observer.
The earth shaped from a very wet sphere into land and sea, such as a snow ball full of mud would form if it started to heat up.This will render very shallow oceans, and very low mountains. Not the mountains we observe today at all. It would be a layered sandy landscape with some hills perhaps 100 meters above sea level.
This was the situation untill Noah's flood.
During the flood, the earth's gravitation increased, and pulled this huge amount of moist from the atmosphere, and pressed even more water from the Earth's mantle out to the surface of the land.
therefore, all this water would have covered the whole earth easily, and for the year that Noah was on the ark, the earth's surface changed dramatically to deep oceans and high mountains, leaving canions as evidence of these waters draining from the continents.
Due to the atmosphere clearing, rainbows appeared due to refraction of light for the first time playing its role in a cleared atmosphere.
The waters that covered the land, filled up the oceans, and as the earths crust moved appart, continents appeared.
Scientifically the Bible does give an explanation for Gravity, perculation of gasses, refraction of light, geological column layering, C14 dating, continental drift, upheaveling of mountains and much more that i dont have the English vocabulary to explain.
All we should remember is that the Earth had a metamorphosis from a collection of gas, liquid, and solids, changeing into a huge ball of mud with an atmosphere, and it changed from an appearance as a passionfruit with a surface which was very smooth and flat, to a shape of the same passionfruit that dried out with the release of Gasses, and water filling the crevaces of this uneven ridgety surface.
Greetings

 

[GenemZ]

Why not?

If the earth was created in 4004 BC, and the Flood was in 2348 BC, that means that mankind had 1656 years to spread out.

By comparison, the United States went from Boston to Los Angeles (some 3000 miles) in less than 200 years.Why? Noah preached for 120 years before the Flood came.

Alright.... Row row your boat... gently ... and keep rowing.

 

[JacksBratt]

Alright.... Row row your boat... gently ... and keep rowing.

Did someone disagree with you and hurt your feeling?

 

[GenemZ]

If we look at how God describe the creation and formation of the Earth, He says He made the Earth shape from a colection of solids and water into a sphere turning around its axis.
on the second day the gasses escaped from this collection of mud, and formed the atmosphere.
On the 3rd day the solids collected on one place and seperated from the water and land and sea appeared.

It also say the earth had no rain, but a mist rose from the earth to wet the land.
Now it takes very little immagination to see how the earth looked, or how it would appear to any observer.
The earth shaped from a very wet sphere into land and sea, such as a snow ball full of mud would form if it started to heat up.This will render very shallow oceans, and very low mountains. Not the mountains we observe today at all. It would be a layered sandy landscape with some hills perhaps 100 meters above sea level.
This was the situation untill Noah's flood.
During the flood, the earth's gravitation increased, and pulled this huge amount of moist from the atmosphere, and pressed even more water from the Earth's mantle out to the surface of the land.
therefore, all this water would have covered the whole earth easily, and for the year that Noah was on the ark, the earth's surface changed dramatically to deep oceans and high mountains, leaving canions as evidence of these waters draining from the continents.
Due to the atmosphere clearing, rainbows appeared due to refraction of light for the first time playing its role in a cleared atmosphere.
The waters that covered the land, filled up the oceans, and as the earths crust moved appart, continents appeared.
Scientifically the Bible does give an explanation for Gravity, perculation of gasses, refraction of light, geological column layering, C14 dating, continental drift, upheaveling of mountains and much more that i dont have the English vocabulary to explain.
All we should remember is that the Earth had a metamorphosis from a collection of gas, liquid, and solids, changeing into a huge ball of mud with an atmosphere, and it changed from an appearance as a passionfruit with a surface which was very smooth and flat, to a shape of the same passionfruit that dried out with the release of Gasses, and water filling the crevaces of this uneven ridgety surface.
Greetings

OK...

My pastor had in his congregation some students from MIT. One of the students later wrote his thesis based upon pastor R.B. Thieme, Jr's in depth teaching on the Genesis creation. Taught from the Hebrew text... and obviously scientifically based. Would you be interested? Lessons are free of charge. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

 

[GenemZ]

Did someone disagree with you and hurt your feeling?

No... Its just a line of thinking that some desire to dig themselves into. Why argue?

 

[JacksBratt]

No... Its just a line of thinking that some desire to dig themselves into. Why argue?

I understand... But.. don't we all "dig ourselves" into a way of thinking?

I mean it's really sad that people here, on a Christian forum.. claiming to be Christians.. yet they condemn, ridicule, slam and insult others who think differently than themselves.. as if they have some monopoly on truth when these discussions are carried out.

 

[GenemZ]

I understand... But.. don't we all "dig ourselves" into a way of thinking?

I mean it's really sad that people here, on a Christian forum.. claiming to be Christians.. yet they condemn, ridicule, slam and insult others who think differently than themselves.. as if they have some monopoly on truth when these discussions are carried out.

When I see what appears to be an ingrained denominational mind set I tend to back off unless it might be useful to others to respond. Otherwise, its having to hear (endure) all the things they accepted without them proving all things. That type of situation takes up way too much ground space and time to cover.

The Holy Spirit will always lead us into correction...That is, if we are being led by the Spirit and not religious pride. Some people spend their lives rooting for certain doctrines they accepted like people root for football teams. The flesh creeps in wherever it can.

 

[Piet Strydom]

OK...

My pastor had in his congregation some students from MIT. One of the students later wrote his thesis based upon pastor R.B. Thieme, Jr's in depth teaching on the Genesis creation. Taught from the Hebrew text... and obviously scientifically based. Would you be interested? Lessons are free of charge. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

TNX for the link, I will definately see if there are any useable information, however i did an intense study on the claim that the angles lived on the earth and a huge war errupted between Satan and the falen angels and angels following God f, before man was created. It is simply a twisted and concoction made up to answer for Darwinian claims when a lot of theologans tried to explain fissils ect.
Be as it may, I am always open minded and will go through this preacher's works, perhaps I will pick up a few pointers.
I classify his thinking with Dake, another whishfull hope to explain evolution by twisting the Bible.
Greetings

 

[Piet Strydom]

Let me show you my problem I have with the "Angelic occupation of pre Adamic existance.
1. These theologans think that the Earth was destroyed by angels when they made war with each other.
2. OK, so if they made war, how did they hurt their opponents?
3. Angels can not die!, and if they can die, then it would mean the Angels with God killed off all the falen angels.
4. In such a case, it would mean that there is not a single "Bad Angel left, and Satan dont have a following to harm Mankind.

And the final blow to this theory.
Through the sin of Adam death came into creation. through the grace of Jesus, death was vanquished.

Therefore, before the sin of Adam, nothing in the universe could die!
So why the heck would angels make war against each other, knowing they can not die!

War is to physically kill the other opponent, not to go around stupidly shooting and beating a spiritual being that cant get hurt.

Such an event would be a clown war armed with cream pies and water guns.

 

[GenemZ]

TNX for the link, I will definately see if there are any useable information, however i did an intense study on the claim that the angles lived on the earth and a huge war errupted between Satan and the falen angels and angels following God f, before man was created. It is simply a twisted and concoction made up to answer for Darwinian claims when a lot of theologans tried to explain fissils ect.
Be as it may, I am always open minded and will go through this preacher's works, perhaps I will pick up a few pointers.
I classify his thinking with Dake, another whishfull hope to explain evolution by twisting the Bible.
Greetings

It was not a new teaching invented because of Darwin.

Some claim it was invented in response to Darwinism. The interesting truth is that this understanding of a prehistoric creation had been seen by scholars long before Darwin was born. Long before.

It was only rediscovered after Darwinism was forcing honest answers for once. No more simply repeating what kids learned in Sunday school .

There was one Christian scholar I will link to who did the exhaustive research to show us how the understanding is there with Bible was seen by scholars many years before Darwin was born.

At that time in history those Bible scholars simply did not know what to make of it. It was the later discovery of fossils and Darwinism's ideas that made what older Bible scholars saw in the Hebrew texts all of a sudden make sense as to why the Bible says what it does. It then began to make sense. It was not invented then!

Long ago Christian Bible scholars and earlier Jewish scholars who read the Hebrew, saw that the Bible teaches about previous creations.

Here is a free online book to read. Read the section - "A Long-held View"

Without Form and Void - Frontpage

I own a copy of this book. Then I learned its available for free online.

Its an eye opener!


grace and peace........

 

[GenemZ]

Let me show you my problem I have with the "Angelic occupation of pre Adamic existance.
1. These theologans think that the Earth was destroyed by angels when they made war with each other.
2. OK, so if they made war, how did they hurt their opponents?
3. Angels can not die!, and if they can die, then it would mean the Angels with God killed off all the falen angels.
4. In such a case, it would mean that there is not a single "Bad Angel left, and Satan dont have a following to harm Mankind.

And the final blow to this theory.
Through the sin of Adam death came into creation. through the grace of Jesus, death was vanquished.

Therefore, before the sin of Adam, nothing in the universe could die!
So why the heck would angels make war against each other, knowing they can not die!

War is to physically kill the other opponent, not to go around stupidly shooting and beating a spiritual being that cant get hurt.

Such an event would be a clown war armed with cream pies and water guns.

The angels ruined the planet after Satan and his angels rebelled. The planet fell when Lucifer and his angels fell, like the earth we now know, fell when Adam fell.

Not the angels. It was God who destroyed the previous creation. In the end, God flooded the entire planet. "The earth was covered with raging waters."

The Jews who understood the Hebrew understood Jeremiah when Jeremiah quoted Genesis 1:2 as warning to them. It was a warning that God was about the execute a severe judgement on the land of Israel. Genesis 1:2, does not mean simply "empty and void."

Here... take a gander and see Jeremiah threatening the rebellious Jews with Genesis 1:2! These Jews were having pagan sex ritual orgies in the fields and throwing their children intro fire as to become even more greatly aroused. It was totally Satanic. God sent Jeremiah to confront them.

Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. (Gen 1:2!)
I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end." Jer 4:20-27​

The Jews understood the Hebrew. They understood that Genesis 1:2 was meaning something much more powerful than the wimpy "empty and void" we read in the translation of the KJV.

Just look at the surrounding context of Jeremiah's words! It is filled with words about terrible destruction! Genesis 1:2 was understood by these rebellious Jews that God had judged the previous creation with no hesitation, utterly destroying it.

That was why Jeremiah was threatening these Jews with Genesis 1:2. Telling them that God is more than capable of wiping them out utterly!

Come on! Think, please! Look what it says!

Ask any question you want. And, keep an open mind.

 

[JacksBratt]

When I see what appears to be an ingrained denominational mind set I tend to back off unless it might be useful to others to respond. Otherwise, its having to hear (endure) all the things they accepted without them proving all things. That type of situation takes up way too much ground space and time to cover.

The Holy Spirit will always lead us into correction...That is, if we are being led by the Spirit and not religious pride. Some people spend their lives rooting for certain doctrines they accepted like people root for football teams. The flesh creeps in wherever it can.

I'm pretty sure that those that disagree with you.. on whatever topic... themselves..... feel that they are being led by the Spirit.. just as you do.

 

[Piet Strydom]

Perhaps I am lost in translation, but I do not see what you claim.
1. Jeremiah prophesies about the Destruction of Juday and Jerusalem.
2. Where does it say the Angels inhabited the Earth before Adam.
Where does it say there was a war between the Angels of God, and the angels of Satan?

If I read the Bible as did Newton in the 1600's, and Kant in the 1700's, I dont find any pre Adam occupation of any angels on the earth.
What I do find is the formation of the Earth from a nebulous cloud, turning into a collection of solid, gas and liquid, with out any shape!

And just this small word, without "form" means a lot.
It claims the Earth was a collection of the 3 stages of matter, such as a huge blob with no recognisable shape in space.
This is how Newton and Kant understood it.
This is how I see Genesis describe the earth before it changed into a sphere, and into the Earth as we know it today.

But these pre - Adam - Angel - occupied - Earth claimants took the words that God created the Heavens and the Earth in the begining, then try to teach the Earth was already shaped with an atmosphere, sea, land, plants, and animals, IN THE BEGINNING before Adam.
The Angels then had their clown war and destroyed the earth to a Chaotic flooded shapeless thing, that eventually again had the first 6 days of creation where the atmosphere, sea, land, sun, moon stars, plants, and animals were re created.

Then, if you are different in opinion to the "War" effects of the angels, why did the angels destroy the Earth. Why did God flood the entire earth? to kill the angels?
ok if you go further in the claims of these adherance to a pre Adam flood and say the angels fell and became human, as they did before the time of Noah, and afterwards, and they could have drowned, what was the reason for them to fell to become human, if they never even saw a human?
The angels at the time of Noah 'saw the daughters of man' was beautifull, and they took them as wives. This means they attained a human form to get a woman. why would the pre Adamitic angels decide to come to the earth in human form, what could they gain?

Satan rebelled against God for God had the angels serve humans, and Satan wanted humans to worship him. What need is there for Satan to rebel, if there was no humans to deceive?


Here we have one of the most absurd stories placed into the Bible, with not a shread of evidence in any verses of the Bible at all!
I will debate with you on this topic on another thread if you wish.