Noah's Ark

OldWiseGuy · Jul 5, 2017

TagliatelliMonster said:
Yes, because the "tides coming in" is similar to the whole damned planet being under water...

Yes, if the tides just kept coming.

Obliquinaut · Jul 5, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
Yes, if the tides just kept coming.

Are you familiar with transgressive sequences in stratigraphy?

OldWiseGuy · Jul 5, 2017

TagliatelliMonster said:
lol, owkay then.

I am suddenly reminded by that wonderfull Beavis and Butthead quote:
"uhuhuhu... if everything was cool all the time and...uhu...and like...nothing sucked...how would you know it was cool?"

I think you just forfeited your very own argument, by saying that.

Belief in the supernatural supports my arguments, your disbelief notwithstanding.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 5, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
2) It explains much of the geology we see around us.

OEC explains the geology around (beneath) us. The flood moved some stuff around but not much given the extent of it.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 5, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
Are you familiar with transgressive sequences in stratigraphy?

Nope. Are you familiar with 'turf'?

lesliedellow · Jul 5, 2017

AV1611VET said:
What happens if ... (okay, when) ... I contradict the Bible?

You disappear in a puff of smoke, and set the blessed smoke alarm off.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 5, 2017

https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/what-would-happen-if-the-moon-moved-closer-to-the-earth/

The article states that with the passing of the moon the water would return to the sea. Of course this is false as the water bulge would follow the moon all around the earth causing massive flooding nearly everywhere. And the effect would accumulate from day to day as described in the flood account.

Subduction Zone · Jul 5, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Then this doosey ...
... can take a hike.Really? Let's find out, shall we?

Wrong as usual AV.

You need to think over your responses better. You should be asking yourself why the answer is "No.".

Are the Palestinians from the ancient Philistines?

No again. What is wrong with your history?

Subduction Zone · Jul 5, 2017

Colter said:
God does everything his natural way. To God nothing is a miracle, everything he does has a logical explanation.

Everything that God does appears to be so natural it is as if he does not exist at all.

AV1611VET · Jul 5, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
And for what is probably the 80th time you'll hear the big question: why would God clean up the mess knowing as he would that it would lead many of us to ERROR and damnation?

Accusing God of error isn't going to work.

Isaiah 32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD,

Especially since Paul warned us to be careful of those who teach physical reality apart from spiritual reality.

Colossian 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [Periodic Table of the Elements] of the world, and not after Christ.

Obliquinaut said:
Repeat: GOD KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE CLEANED UP THE EVIDENCE SUCH THAT IT LOOKS LIKE IT NEVER EXISTED.

It will not be His fault if He has to blot your name out of the Lamb's book of life.

Had He not cleaned that mess up, Noah and his family would have starved to death.

Are you familiar with what is called a "bottleneck catastrophe"?

It reduces the population (or a segment of it) down close to extinction.

After a bottleneck catastrophe occurs (like the Flood), only two things can happen:

Either a bottleneck recovery has to occur, or an extinction will.

A bottle recovery is dependent on the vitality of the survivors of the catastrophe.

In the case of the Flood, the plants were gone ... wiped out ... completely.

And no matter how vital Noah and his family were, they would have starved to death, assuming they wouldn't die of thirst first.

Obliquinaut said:
No one else can know with perfect foreknowledge except God. Ergo God KNEW what would happen. It leads to error and damnation for some people. And God knew exactly who those people would be.

You can claim God cleaning everything up will lead you and others to Hell; but what you can't claim is that God cleaning everything up is why you and others end up in Hell.

Obliquinaut said:
Is he thus a Loving God?

Yes.

Obliquinaut said:
Well, ask those folks who wind up in Hell.

I won't need to ask.

They aren't there because God is love, they are there because they refused to believe in Him.

Obliquinaut said:
Let's say I commit a robbery and remove all evidence so perfectly that no sign of the robbery even exists. Then I write a story about how BOB committed the robbery. Is my documentation good?

No. You lied and said BOB did it. (Unless your name is Bob.)

Obliquinaut said:
Remember: many of us don't simply believe something someone else (another HUMAN) wrote simply because they wrote it.

That humans-wrote-it argument doesn't cut it.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

And besides that, if you know your Bible well enough, you'll know that God wrote four things in the Bible with His own hands:

1. The Ten Commandments (twice)
2. The Handwriting on the Wall (Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
3. On the ground, when they brought the adulteress to Jesus

And you know as well as I do, it doesn't mean a thing.

So whether God wrote it, or whether He used amanuenses to write it, you still won't believe.

In fact, people want #1 above removed from public property.

So save that argument for some gullible person who'll believe you, because I won't.

Subduction Zone · Jul 5, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
OEC explains the geology around (beneath) us. The flood moved some stuff around but not much given the extent of it.

The Flood did not move anything at all and that is a huge problem no matter what you believe.

Obliquinaut · Jul 5, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
OEC explains the geology around (beneath) us. The flood moved some stuff around but not much given the extent of it.

I stand corrected. However it doesn't make your support of the literal Flood any less problematic based on the actual physical evidence. The geology doesn't really work that way.

Obliquinaut · Jul 5, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
Nope. Are you familiar with 'turf'?

I figured you weren't. (Ironically enough it relates to your idea of the sea encroaching on the land. It's a lot of basic geology which you don't seem to think actually exists, but in fact you might be able to leverage for your explanation. Too bad! You should take a couple of basic geology classes if you want to talk in this area.)

Obliquinaut · Jul 5, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Accusing God of error isn't going to work.

Sure it is! Just because you don't have the wherewithal to engage in a philosophical discussion that questions God doesn't mean no one else can!

Isaiah 32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD,

Yes, that would be me. Vile. But at least I'm not the one knowingly creating evidence that will 100% certainly lead to their damnation.

Especially since Paul warned us to be careful of those who teach physical reality apart from spiritual reality.

So long as we understand that God created a world full of people many of whom will knowingly deceive us leaving us with no option but to utilize our only tools available (skepticism) to demand more than just their word and that same God wants us NOT to use it in relation to Him, then I think we've got a winner here.

Had He not cleaned that mess up, Noah and his family would have starved to death.

Because God is controlled by events? God couldn't leave evidence and provide food for Noah? Huh. I can imagine a more POWERFUL God than this. I guess by the Ontological Argument my version of God is more real than yours!

It reduces the population (or a segment of it) down close to extinction.

Yes and we've seen many of these in the Geologic Record. Guess God didn't clean those up.

And no matter how vital Noah and his family were, they would have starved to death, assuming they wouldn't die of thirst first.

You are making the assumption that God couldn't leave ANY evidence. Because He didn't leave one single scrap of evidence. Not one.

You can claim God cleaning everything up will lead you and others to Hell; but what you can't claim is that God cleaning everything up is why you and others end up in Hell.Yes.I won't need to ask.

Sure I can! (Not that it does in this case for me...I gave up on God for many, many, many other reasons. Even when I was a Christian I believed the Noachian Flood was a story and not literally true! No my reason for damnation will be for so many other reasons. Not the least of which is that God didn't ever seem to communicate to me. It was a one way telephone conversation. )

They aren't there because God is love, they are there because they refused to believe in Him.No. You lied and said BOB did it. (Unless your name is Bob.)That humans-wrote-it argument doesn't cut it.

God is love. Which is why in the depths of my darkest nights of despair I felt...nothing? Which is why I am called to investigate claims of truth and require more evidence and when it is missing I am asked to simply "believe".

Not gonna cut it. Sorry.

And besides that, if you know your Bible well enough, you'll know that God wrote four things in the Bible with His own hands:

Prove it.

So whether God wrote it, or whether He used amanuenses to write it, you still won't believe.

You know so much about me! It is amazing. Of course you'd be WRONG, but that probably doesn't stop you. ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS YOUR VERSION OF GOD is ipso facto wrong. And if they bring up things that you cannot definitively disprove then they must be hardened against your "truth" forever. Otherwise your wisdom and brilliance would shine through! I must be flawed.

In fact, people want #1 above removed from public property.

Yeah because it has among them that one must worship God. Public property is paid for by ALL OF US, not just you who worship God. Sorry if you missed that commandment as being in the Big 10.

So save that argument for some gullible person who'll believe you, because I won't.

Why don't you save your arguments against science for those gullible people who will believe you? Oh, I know...because YOU HAVE TRUTH.

Sorry, no offense, I'm sure you believe your truth. But you fail to impress me sufficiently.

And believe me, based on my experiences in life and my extensive work on my "faith journey" you'll have to up your game because I've seen your version of exegesis too many times and it doesn't hold water for those of us who have arrived at a different conclusion from you.

Subduction Zone · Jul 5, 2017

I see that AV does not know what a population bottleneck is and how it overrules the possibility of the flood of Noah. And I am betting that he does not know the Ten Commandments that he was referring to either.

HitchSlap · Jul 5, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Mr. Nye says he imagines you'll hear about the Grand Canyon later.

The Flood has nothing to do with the Grand Canyon.

"Aaaaah, the Grand Canyon..."

Colter · Jul 5, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Everything that God does appears to be so natural it is as if he does not exist at all.

That's the inevitable reality of being a finite shadow cast by the Absolute.

AV1611VET · Jul 5, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
You are making the assumption that God couldn't leave ANY evidence. Because He didn't leave one single scrap of evidence. Not one.

You mean like this:

... and this:

... that you'll just handwave away?

Obliquinaut said:
God is love. Which is why in the depths of my darkest nights of despair I felt...nothing?

God was there ... believe me.

Jeremiah spent ... what ... two years in miry clay.

And Job?

Well ... here's a pretty picture of him:

Obliquinaut said:
And believe me, based on my experiences in life and my extensive work on my "faith journey" you'll have to up your game because I've seen your version of exegesis too many times ...

I seriously, seriously doubt that.

You don't know me very well, do you?

I think more "outside of the box" than you probably ever dreamed of.

(Ask me where God took the Flood waters. )

I'm not afraid to speculate.

And I love to ask people who claim they used to be a Christian and now aren't:

Are you telling me that at one time you were a Christian, then for some reason, you gave up all of this ...

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

... for a life of unbelief?

Is that what you want me to believe? because I will, if you want me to.

AV1611VET · Jul 5, 2017

HitchSlap said:
"Aaaaah, the Grand Canyon..."

In my opinion, Eric Hovind is wrong.

Although he did phrase it as a question.

But if the answer to that question is YES, then I disagree.

HitchSlap · Jul 5, 2017

AV1611VET said:
In my opinion, Eric Hovind is wrong.

Although he did phrase it as a question.

But if the answer to that question is YES, then I disagree.

IMO, he's wrong for the same reason you're wrong.

Noah's Ark

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