Noah's Ark and the Cheetah

[Subduction Zone]

No, you believe the guesses and suppositions that the flood of Genesis did not do that. You have your faith-based view, I have mine.

Incorrect. No guesses , no suppositions. You should not use terms that you do not know how to use correctly. And only your view is faith based. I have offered to help you learn what evidence is but you are willfully ignorant. Probably because you do know deep down inside that there is no evidence for your beliefs , but there are are for mine.

I find no error in the bible.

You can only blame yourself for that. You have either not read it or not understood it.

Meanders do form during floods. I've observed flood waters breach natural barriers and create new channels which meandered alongside the main channel. I'm not claiming that's the only way meanders are formed, but it's one way.

No, you may have observed the destruction of a meander. New meanders take years to form. The bed will not develop its curves during a flood. You are merely remembering wrong at best.

 

[justlookinla]

You dodged the question, and you know that "Scientism" is a made up word that deniers of reality use.

Scientistm is a word to convey the worldview that science is the go to philosophy for life's questions....among other things.

 

[justlookinla]

Incorrect. No guesses , no suppositions. You should not use terms that you do not know how to use correctly. And only your view is faith based. I have offered to help you learn what evidence is but you are willfully ignorant. Probably because you do know deep down inside that there is no evidence for your beliefs , but there are are for mine.

Depends on which belief's you're talking about.

You can only blame yourself for that. You have either not read it or not understood it.

I've been a student of the bible for quite a few decades now. I've found that the antichrist spirit is the source of the claim that there are errors in the bible.

No, you may have observed the destruction of a meander. New meanders take years to form. The bed will not develop its curves during a flood. You are merely remembering wrong at best.

I've observed it happening. It's nothing unusual for folks around here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Depends on which belief's you're talking about.

Yes, your views are based upon guesses and wishes. That is why you have made no progress so far.

I've been a student of the bible for quite a few decades now. I've found that the antichrist spirit is the source of the claim that there are errors in the bible.

Then you have been a very poor student. There is no "antichrist spirit" There may be a "I want to know the truth spirit" for some reason fundamentalists associate that with an "antichrist"

I've observed it happening. It's nothing unusual for folks around here.

Nope, you have no clue when it comes to landforms. It is well known how meanders form, and your description is wrong. At the very best you may have seen the bed switch from one meander to another. And of course that is now what we observe in the picture either. This meander could only be formed over "deep time". In a biblical time period it is impossible. Once again, try to make a realistic description of how it could have formed. So far you have struck out badly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Scientistm is a word to convey the worldview that science is the go to philosophy for life's questions....among other things.

If I called Christianity "boardism" since it is common to see people worshiping two boards, I would get in real trouble here for being disrespectful. That should go both ways.

 

[SkyWriting]

If almost every mammalian species on earth was culled down to 2 members a mere 4000 years ago, why does only the Cheetah (and the southern elephant seal, and a handful of others) show this sort of lack of diversity? Why does one population seem entirely inbred, while another shows the sort of genetic diversity which, according to everything we know about evolution and the conservation rates of certain parts of the genome, should be blatantly impossible from 2 individuals in 4000 years?

The field of molecular genetics is not yet out of the baby nursery. My mom is older. I've been to a house that's older. I have aspirin in my medicine cabinet that may be older.

 

[The Cadet]

The field of molecular genetics is not yet out of the baby nursery. My mom is older. I've been to a house that's older. I have aspirin in my medicine cabinet that may be older.

So what?

 

[justlookinla]

Yes, your views are based upon guesses and wishes. That is why you have made no progress so far.

Your devaluing of humanity isn't progress.

Then you have been a very poor student. There is no "antichrist spirit" There may be a "I want to know the truth spirit" for some reason fundamentalists associate that with an "antichrist"

Oh yes, there is an antichrist spirit and it's seen in many of your posts. And others also.

Nope, you have no clue when it comes to landforms. It is well known how meanders form, and your description is wrong. At the very best you may have seen the bed switch from one meander to another.

No, I've observed new meanders where there were no meanders before. Sorry if my observations do not match your theory.

And of course that is now what we observe in the picture either. This meander could only be formed over "deep time". In a biblical time period it is impossible. Once again, try to make a realistic description of how it could have formed. So far you have struck out badly.

Hopefully you realize by now that your conclusion from the photo is meaningless, nothing but an extension of your bias against the bible.

 

[justlookinla]

If I called Christianity "boardism" since it is common to see people worshiping two boards, I would get in real trouble here for being disrespectful. That should go both ways.

You call Christianity "magic" which has occult connotations. You constantly promote your antichrist viewpoint of creation.

I'd say that the admins have been very lenient with you.

 

[The Cadet]

@justlookinla

Of course not; the only reliable method we've got to determine anything about nature is something you throw out every time it contradicts the bible! If you're going to ignore every scrap of scientific evidence that shows that the bible is wrong, of course you won't be able to spot the errors! It's like if I had a book that said 2+2=5, and then I said "I don't trust mathematics" - I couldn't find the error because I'm ignoring the tool necessary to find the error in the first place!

But even then, I think we can find an error. Just tell me - who bought the potter's field following Jesus's crucifixion? And how would you treat leprosy?

Any response to this? More specifically, let's say hypothetically, something in the bible were wrong. How would you go about determining if this were the case?

 

[justlookinla]

@justlookinla



Any response to this? More specifically, let's say hypothetically, something in the bible were wrong. How would you go about determining if this were the case?

The first question I'd ask is, why is this person wishing to prove the bible wrong? What spirit is influencing them to do that? What is their motive?

There's nothing in the bible wrong so it's really a moot question. Worthless, really.

 

[Zosimus]

If almost every mammalian species on earth was culled down to 2 members a mere 4000 years ago, why does only the Cheetah (and the southern elephant seal, and a handful of others) show this sort of lack of diversity? Why does one population seem entirely inbred, while another shows the sort of genetic diversity which, according to everything we know about evolution and the conservation rates of certain parts of the genome, should be blatantly impossible from 2 individuals in 4000 years?

Not that I believe in Noah's Ark (nor disbelieve, mind you), but the question you have asked has an easily-guessed possible answer.

Imagine, for example, that there were two of each animal on Earth on an Ark to save them from floods (7 of the clean versions, obviously) then whatever genetic variation goes onto the Ark will be the genetic variation that comes off of the ark.

To wit, if the cheetahs who went onto the Ark were cousins, then the genetic variability of subsequent generations of cheetahs will be substantially less than that of subsequent generations of other creatures whose forebears were more genetically diverse.

Wouldn't a more telling criticism of the story be that since the notion of "clean" animals was revealed to Moses in roughly AM 2460 whereas Noah finished the Ark in or about AM 1300, some 1160 years earlier, how did Noah know which animals were clean and that he should take 7 of each of them on the Ark with him?

 

[justlookinla]

Wouldn't a more telling criticism of the story be that since the notion of "clean" animals was revealed to Moses in roughly AM 2460 whereas Noah finished the Ark in or about AM 1300, some 1160 years earlier, how did Noah know which animals were clean and that he should take 7 of each of them on the Ark with him?

The guy that gave Noah the building plans also gave him specific instructions concerning the animals.

 

[Zosimus]

The guy that gave Noah the building plans also gave him specific instructions concerning the animals.

In which chapter and verse of the Bible can I read those instructions?
(smiling sweetly)

 

[justlookinla]

In which chapter and verse of the Bible can I read those instructions?
(smiling sweetly)

Every word of instruction isn't recorded. When God told Noah about the clean and unclean animals, He didn't leave Noah alone to decide for himself.

 

[Zosimus]

Every word of instruction isn't recorded. When God told Noah about the clean and unclean animals, He didn't leave Noah alone to decide for himself.

So there are revelations from God that are not included in the Bible and, if such revelations were found, it would be legitimate to include them in the Bible.

Or in a separate book... Koran? Book of Mormon? Conflict of the Ages?

 

[justlookinla]

So there are revelations from God that are not included in the Bible and, if such revelations were found, it would be legitimate to include them in the Bible.

Yep. And it wouldn't change anything....maybe further explain it, but not change it.

Or in a separate book... Koran? Book of Mormon? Conflict of the Ages?

Depends on if any of those books would change the bible.

 

[JasonClark]

Depends on if any of those books would change the bible.

Unfortunately the bible was already changed, the stories of Gilgamesh came first, the life of Jesus is virtually an exact copy of the life of Gilgamesh who lived a thousand years before Jesus, everything you associate with Jesus happened to Gilgamesh first. (lot's of other people as well) Read about Gilgamesh and see for yourself.

 

[Zosimus]

Unfortunately the bible was already changed, the stories of Gilgamesh came first, the life of Jesus is virtually an exact copy of the life of Gilgamesh who lived a thousand years before Jesus, everything you associate with Jesus happened to Gilgamesh first. (lot's of other people as well) Read about Gilgamesh and see for yourself.

The epic’s prelude offers a general introduction to Gilgamesh, king of Uruk, who was two-thirds god and one-third man. He built magnificent ziggurats, or temple towers, surrounded his city with high walls, and laid out its orchards and fields. He was physically beautiful, immensely strong, and very wise. Although Gilgamesh was godlike in body and mind, he began his kingship as a cruel despot. He lorded over his subjects, raping any woman who struck his fancy, whether she was the wife of one of his warriors or the daughter of a nobleman. He accomplished his building projects with forced labor, and his exhausted subjects groaned under his oppression. The gods heard his subjects’ pleas and decided to keep Gilgamesh in check by creating a wild man named Enkidu, who was as magnificent as Gilgamesh. Enkidu became Gilgamesh’s great friend, and Gilgamesh’s heart was shattered when Enkidu died of an illness inflicted by the gods. Gilgamesh then traveled to the edge of the world and learned about the days before the deluge and other secrets of the gods, and he recorded them on stone tablets.
------------------
Yes, I see the parallels between him and Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your devaluing of humanity isn't progress.

When have I ever done so? You have it backwards as usual, you give a false high level to humanity.

Oh yes, there is an antichrist spirit and it's seen in many of your posts. And others also.

Wrong again, there may be an "antirejectionofreality" spirit in my posts. You are opposed to reality.

No, I've observed new meanders where there were no meanders before. Sorry if my observations do not match your theory.

If your claim is true you should be able to support it with links. I can support my claims. Amateurs often do not know what they are actually observing.

Hopefully you realize by now that your conclusion from the photo is meaningless, nothing but an extension of your bias against the bible.

Nope, once again you have failed utterly. All you have done is to illustrate your bias against reality. And you have barely scratched the surface of this problem. Let's run over your failures so far. Floods do not produce meanders. You made a bogus claim "I have seen it". That is worthless in a debate. I gave you a link with a very simple explanation of how meanders forms that I hoped was simple enough for you to understand. Either you did not read it or you did not understand it. Floods at best will form a braided stream. That was not a braided stream. You can admit defeat and bow out if you like. Or you could not admit defeat and bow out. You have not even come close to winning.