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Noah-Lots of Water in the Oceans and Subterranean Oceans

HarleyER

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Mosquitos and ticks are more easily hidden than nephelim. How do you think they managed to hide on the ark?
The Nephelim (Genesis 6:4) were giants on the earth who perished in the flood. Later the term is used again in Numbers 13:33 to refer to other giants that existed hundred of years later. You who would argue about DNA and evolution should appreciate that there are people of various sizes and shapes. I think we both would agree that the genetic pool generating descendants had to be small. The Nephelim in Numbers 13 were related to Ham, Shem, or Japheth while the Nephelim in Genesis 6 had to be relatives of Ham, Shem, or Jephat. So Goliath simply looked like great-great uncle Fred the Nephelim. It is a lot easier to simply calling them Nephelim instead of saying, "They took after Ham's wife second cousin."
 
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The Barbarian

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The Nephelim (Genesis 6:4) were giants on the earth who perished in the flood. Later the term is used again in Numbers 13:33 to refer to other giants that existed hundred of years later.
How did they survive the flood?

You who would argue about DNA and evolution should appreciate that there are people of various sizes and shapes.
Not like that. You see, an actual human that tall wouldn't be able to stand. Strength increases with the square of length, but mass increases as the cube of length. The tallest known human, much smaller than your nephelim who survived the flood, needed braces to stand and walk.

So mutations over a few thousand years would not fix your problem.
 
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Job 33:6

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The Nephelim (Genesis 6:4) were giants on the earth who perished in the flood. Later the term is used again in Numbers 13:33 to refer to other giants that existed hundred of years later. You who would argue about DNA and evolution should appreciate that there are people of various sizes and shapes. I think we both would agree that the genetic pool generating descendants had to be small. The Nephelim in Numbers 13 were related to Ham, Shem, or Japheth while the Nephelim in Genesis 6 had to be relatives of Ham, Shem, or Jephat. So Goliath simply looked like great-great uncle Fred the Nephelim. It is a lot easier to simply calling them Nephelim instead of saying, "They took after Ham's wife second cousin."
Goliath was a descendant of the nephelim. That's why he was giant.

Numbers 13:33 ESV
[33] And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

Joshua 11:6-7, 10-12, 15, 21-22 ESV
[6] And the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid of them, for tomorrow at this time I will give over all of them, slain, to Israel. You shall hamstring their horses and burn their chariots with fire.” [7] So Joshua and all his warriors came suddenly against them by the waters of Merom and fell upon them.
[10] And Joshua turned back at that time and captured Hazor and struck its king with the sword, for Hazor formerly was the head of all those kingdoms. [11] And they struck with the sword all who were in it, devoting them to destruction; there was none left that breathed. And he burned Hazor with fire. [12] And all the cities of those kings, and all their kings, Joshua captured, and struck them with the edge of the sword, devoting them to destruction, just as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded.
[15] Just as the Lord had commanded Moses his servant, so Moses commanded Joshua, and so Joshua did. He left nothing undone of all that the Lord had commanded Moses.
[21] And Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill country of Judah, and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua devoted them to destruction with their cities. [22] There was none of the Anakim left in the land of the people of Israel. Only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod did some remain.

The conquest of Joshua describes the remnants of the giants, the Anakim, descendents of the nephelim, having only remnants remaining in Gath.

Gath of course, is the land of... Goliath. The giant.
 
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Diamond72

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Given your definition, do you think women should be silent in the church when men can speak?
Men are to follow the example of Jesus. They are to die to self and go to carvery for their wife. We are all to submit ourselves to Jesus to follow His plan and His example on how to live our life.
 
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HarleyER

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How did they survive the flood?


Not like that. You see, an actual human that tall wouldn't be able to stand. Strength increases with the square of length, but mass increases as the cube of length. The tallest known human, much smaller than your nephelim who survived the flood, needed braces to stand and walk.

So mutations over a few thousand years would not fix your problem.
They were distant relatives.

As far as actual human "that tall" not being able to stand, just how tall do you think they were? Did you ever hear of Andre the "Giant". Watch The Princess Bride.

Inconceivable.
 
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The Barbarian

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They were distant relatives.
Huge differences in phenotype is more than just human variation.
As far as actual human "that tall" not being able to stand,
The tallest human on record (over 8 feet) needed braces to stand and move.

These giants were big enough that normal humans looked like locusts next to them, according to God.
Did you ever hear of Andre the "Giant". Watch The Princess Bride.
7 feet 4 inches. About a foot shorter than the largest known human. But even the largest human didn't make other humans look small as locusts. And Andre died early, about 47. Either this species of humans survived the flood, or they managed to stow away on the Ark.
Inconceivable.
Reconciling a worldwide flood with giants somehow surviving seems more like impossible.
 
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Diamond72

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These giants were big enough that normal humans looked like locusts next to them, according to God.
Where do you see: "according to God". Because they had a bad report then had to wonder in the wilderness for 40 years. If they had faith and trust in God they could have entered into the promised land. This is why we always need to be positive and trust in God to fight our battels for us. Like David trusted in God when he fought goliath. Even though the mocked him. David's courage and faith were already tested with wild animals, making Goliath seem like the next big challenge. His confidence came from his past victories and his trust in God, showing that true strength often comes from belief and experience.
 
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David Lamb

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These giants were big enough that normal humans looked like locusts next to them, according to God.
It wasn't according to God. It was the 10 evil spies who said:


“"There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."” (Nu 13:33 NKJV)
 
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DennisF

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That is very deceptive. Far to often they mean until the end of the age or the end of the ages. It is ONLY 1,000 years from now when there will be a new heaven and a new earth and the old shall pass away. Even our church age is coming to an end right now. This is the age of Grace. Only those that are without spot, blemish or wrinkle will be accepted. There is talk about the wolf and the lamb will lay together and the Lion will eat grass like a cow. Nothing will harm or hurt in the world that is coming.
I am not a Hebrew language scholar by any means but it doesn't takes a PhD in Near East studies to find out that Hebrew is like our familiar languages in its nuances and subtleties; this includes figures of speech. I wonder what epigraphers a millennium from now, digging up old American literary remains and encountering the expression: "He shot himself in the foot." would translate it to mean?

The same applies today to translation of ancient Hebrew. Archaeologists have contributed over the last nearly-200 years a large amount of additional data from which more can be adduced about Hebrew, and they reveal errors in English translations. However, the translators are cautious in making the needed changes because they might be accused of changing "the Word of God". One of my favorite examples is in late Daniel, after the angel at the canal has "blown his mind" with future info, he tells Daniel: Go your way, Daniel, for in the last days many shall push forth and knowledge will be increased." Push forth continues to be translated "run to and fro" instead of what this Hebrew idiom means, and the closest in English to its meaning that I know is "do research". We still have this idiom in English, about science pushing the frontiers of knowledge. With that rendering, the sentence is completely coherent; those who do research increase knowledge.
 
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Diamond72

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With that rendering, the sentence is completely coherent; those who do research increase knowledge.
Too many people do no research at all, but they think they know more than someone who has spent their whole life to read and study something. The Bible says to respect the elders in the church but there is a huge amount of disrespect for them today. Of course that could be a generational thing.
 
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DennisF

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Too many people do no research at all, but they think they know more than someone who has spent their whole life to read and study something. The Bible says to respect the elders in the church but there is a huge amount of disrespect for them today. Of course that could be a generational thing.
Or, as often happens, the elders disagree with each other. Hopefully, the people who really do know more and have a more solid grounding in truth are the prominent guides of the neophytes, but unhappily, this does not always occur.
 
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Diamond72

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Or, as often happens, the elders disagree with each other.
Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

It’s a profound reminder to rely on faith and Divine guidance rather than solely on our limited perspective.

We trust in God to lean us and not man.
 
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Semper-Fi

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In short, Noah's ark was made of similar materials and in a similar fashion to the ark in which Baby Moses was placed in the Nile.
The only thing similer is both was an ark [a box like structure]
H8392 and both had some form of pitch covering to seal water out.

Noahs ark Genesis 6:14
"Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make
in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

an ark H8392 a box of somesort
תֵּבָה
têbâh
tay-baw'
Perhaps of foreign derivation; a box: - ark.
Total KJV occurrences: 28

made from
gopher H1613
גֹּפֶר
gôpher
go'-fer
From an unused root, probably meaning to house in;
a kind of tree or wood (as used for building), apparently
the cypress: - gopher. Total KJV occurrences: 1

[wood H6086] It seems you past up this word for some reason.
עֵץ
‛êts
ates
From H6095; a tree (from its firmness); hence wood (plural sticks):
- + carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick,
stock, timber, tree, wood. Total KJV occurrences: [329]

"The Greek Septuagint (3rd–1st centuries BC) translated the phrase
mentioning gopher wood as ἐκ ξύλων τετραγώνων (ek xúlōn tetragṓnōn),
'out of squared timber', translating gofer as squared. [2] Similarly, the
Latin Vulgate (5th century AD) rendered it as de lignis levigatis (lævigatis,
in the spelling of the Clementine Vulgate), 'of timber planks'.

H6086 timber/tree/wood
Genesis 1:11, 1:29, 3:1-2-3, Genesis 18:4-8, Genesis 22:3...[329 occ]
-

"rooms shalt thou make
rooms H7064
קֵן
qên
kane
Contracted from H7077; a nest (as fixed), sometimes including
the nestlings; figuratively a chamber or dwelling: - nest, room.
Total KJV occurrences: 13 [a fixed structure and with bedding.]
He made woden stalls for the animals, like we do in barns today.

and shalt pitch it within

pitch H3722
כָּפַר
kâphar
kaw-far'
A primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively
to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel: - appease, make (an)
atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon,
to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).
Total KJV occurrences: 102

and without with pitch

pitch H3724
כֹּפֶר
kôpher
ko'-fer
From H3722; properly a cover, that is, (literally) a village (as covered in);
(specifically) bitumen (as used for coating), and the henna plant (as used
for dyeing); figuratively a redemption price: - bribe, camphire, pitch,
ransom, satisfaction, sum of money, village. Total KJV occurrences: 17

This Ark was made with "gopher" "wood/timbers", it had "rooms" built in.
It was covered with pitch H3722-H3724 inside and out.
They did not lament tons of grass reeds to make timbers.
x

The ark of bulrushes

Exo 2:3 And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him
an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and
put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink.

an ark H8392
תֵּבָה
têbâh
tay-baw'
Perhaps of foreign derivation; a box: - ark.
Total KJV occurrences: 28

made from bulrushes

bulrushes H1573 gôme' - go'-meh
From H1572; properly an absorbent, that is, the bulrush
(from its porosity); specifically [the papyrus]: - (bul-) rush.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

H1572
גָּמָא
gâmâ'
gaw-maw'
A primitive root (literally or figuratively) to absorb:
- swallow, drink. Total KJV occurrences: 2

[the papyrus] Common name is Nile grass, Egyptian reed or paper reed.
The Nile was not around in Noahs day before the flood.

slime H2564 chêmâr - khay-mawr'
From H2560; bitumen (as rising to the surface): - slime (-pit).

H2560 châmar- khaw-mar'
A primitive root; properly to boil up; hence to ferment (with scum);
to glow (with redness); as denominative (from H2564) to smear
with pitch: - daub, foul, be red, trouble. Total KJV occurrences: 6

pitch H2203 zepheth - zeh'-feth
From an unused root (meaning to liquify); asphalt (from its
tendency to soften in the sun): - pitch. Total KJV occurrences: 3
x

The timeframe, the location, the size and shape, the materials used,
the time to build, the cargo, the time it was in the water, the type
of water, small basket by rivers edge, or raging seas, none is the same.

The wife, a daughter of Levi could have built a basket
in a day or two. Noal, it took 100 years to build the ark.

Noah's ark had three floors filled with rooms (Genesis 6:14, 16)
a roof, and one window and one door (Genesis 6:16).

One of the biggest ships of its time, and its sheer magnitude still
inspires us today. It would not have been built from papyrus plants.
Support for this position
The video you posted does not help but herts your view of events.

"From your link" Ancient Egyptian Papyrus Reed Boats

"The boat has a short life span of some three months"

Noah and his family and animals spent a year on the ark.

One adult African elephant can produce anywhere from 100 to 200 kilograms
(roughly 440 lb) of dung per day. Papyrus is a material similar to thick
paper that was used in ancient times as a writing surface. Dung/urine
of all the animals on the ark would destroy this porous material quick.

"Its length depends on the end use: from 1 meter for those built for
children, up to 12 meters for the largest that are used to transport
cargoes of wood, or as ferries carrying a dozen passengers from
one bank of the Nile to the other."

The largest ones could only hold a dozen passengers at most.

On average, a male African elephants can weigh anywhere between
10,000 and 14,000 pounds. No way a Papyrus reed boat could hold
the weight of all the pairs of animals that was on the ark in Noah's day.

A pole of "eucalyptus wood that acts as a sort of keel."

It seems they even had to use [wood] to make it work. Papyrus
reed was not strong enough for a keel even for this small boat.
They where also propelled by rowers using wooden oars.
-

The Temple Soloman built Same word is used
H6086 from tree/wood/timber/planks.

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one
cutteth [a tree H6086] out of the forest, the work of the
hands of the workman, with the axe.
 
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Semper-Fi

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"Under Heaven" assumes a flat Earth. Otherwise, it makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense using a circle/sphere earth. It makes no sense
when someone thinks God describes a flat earth in the bible.

I have not traveled out of the U.S., but every place on earth I have
been, I could look outside and the sky [the 1st heaven] is above me.

You try it, imagine going, or go to any place on earth in the daytime and look up,
is the sky above you? my guess is yes, it is. Now go outside at night and look up,
do you see stars in the 2nd heaven above you? I do if it's a clear night.

Anywhere you are on earth, the 1st and 2nd heaven are [above you],
Anywhere on earth you are, you are [under heaven/s].

Do this anywhere on earth and it would be the same result.
A smart scientist with [an open mind] could/should see this.

What about Job 26:7?

Can you have a horizon on a flat earth?

6 The world that was, being overflowed with water, perished.

The bible talks about 3 worlds.
The world that was [before the flood],
the world that is [this current age],
and the world soon to come [mill. age].

All are the same world we call Earth are they not?
 
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The Barbarian

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It makes perfect sense using a circle/sphere earth. It makes no sense
when someone thinks God describes a flat earth in the bible.
Revelation 7:1 ~ After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.

Matthew 4:8 ~ Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Job 37:18 ~ Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

Isaiah 11:12 ~ He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Nattering about these "errors" is like taking Jesus to task because a mustard seed is not the smallest seed. C'mon.
 
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Jipsah

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If I underwent a horrible death, would that convince you of the great flood?
How horrible? Like being eaten by a crocodile, or nibbled to death by ducks? I'm not sure how much bearing that would have on the question of whether the Great Flood was actually global or hot.
 
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